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  • FIRST POST
    • lozkinjones
    • By lozkinjones 15th Mar 17, 11:04 AM
    • 4Posts
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    lozkinjones
    Used car develops major fault after 19 days
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:04 AM
    Used car develops major fault after 19 days 15th Mar 17 at 11:04 AM
    Morning guys

    Was looking to get a bit of advice if possible. I bought a used car from a Dealer on Auto Trader - a small dealer, but a dealer nontheless. The car cost £2,200 and seemed in decent condition.

    After 19 days, I get a warning light whilst driving down the motorway re: oil pressure - I manage to get off the motorwar, pull over, pop the bonnet and there is a hideous smell coming from it - long story short, the car won't restart, I get towed to a local garage who tell me the head gasket has gone and it;'s an £840 repair bill

    I do some research on the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and it looks like I have a case to return the car, so I send an email (template downloaded from Which) and follow up with a call. The dealer is telling me that the Consumer Rights Act only stands with problems that were noticeable on the car on the day of sale.

    I don't know enough about it to know whether he is right, or whether he is fobbing me off.

    Can anyone help?

    Thanks
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • 18,541 Posts
    • 14,266 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    From the MSE guide http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange?_ga=1.181305447.1706339514.1392649330#goo ds:

    Get a full refund within 30 days

    This is a nice new addition to our statutory rights. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 changed our right to reject something faulty, and be entitled to a full refund in most cases, from a reasonable time to a fixed period (in most cases) of 30 days. After that, you lose the short-term right to reject the goods and you'll have fewer rights, such as only being able to ask for a repair or replacement, or a full or partial refund if this doesn’t work.
    • lozkinjones
    • By lozkinjones 15th Mar 17, 11:21 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    lozkinjones
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:21 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:21 AM
    Thanks - this is my interpretation too, but if the dealer disputes, it looks like I have myself a Mexican stand off!
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 15th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 9,589 Posts
    • 10,748 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    In the 19 days between purchase and the problem arising, did you check the coolant and oil levels of the engine?


    As you will be attempting to reject the car using the CRA short term right of rejection, the onus will be on you to show that the fault was because of something that was there at the time of sale so a written report from the garage you took the car to may well be needed.
    This shouldn't just say that the head gasket has gone but should give a reason for the failure and stating that in their opinion this fault had been there since you acquired the vehicle.
    • lozkinjones
    • By lozkinjones 15th Mar 17, 11:47 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    lozkinjones
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:47 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:47 AM
    Thanks - yes, the coolant and oil levels were fine at the time - there is a display on the dash that displays oil levels, and it was just towards the end of the journey where I broke down that the problem arose.

    The car is still in the garage where it broke down, so I will ask them if they will do a report.

    I've just had further dialogue with the dealer and he said that "I can prove at the point of sale that the head gasket was not faulty, and that is all I need to do under the law"

    I think I need to do more reading up!

    Thanks again
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 15th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:48 AM
    From the MSE guide http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange?_ga=1.181305447.1706339514.1392649330#goo ds:

    Get a full refund within 30 days

    This is a nice new addition to our statutory rights. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 changed our right to reject something faulty, and be entitled to a full refund in most cases, from a reasonable time to a fixed period (in most cases) of 30 days. After that, you lose the short-term right to reject the goods and you'll have fewer rights, such as only being able to ask for a repair or replacement, or a full or partial refund if this doesn’t work.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    I believe if the customer wishes to insist on a refund then the onus is on them to prove the fault was inherent i.e. existed at the point of sale (although it may only have manifested itself later).

    If the customer is willing to accept a repair, replacement or refund at the dealer's option then I believe (because the item was bought less than six months ago) the customer is entitled to this unless the dealer can prove the fault was not inherent.

    This is, I suppose, only really relevant if the op sues the dealer. However if they do plan to sue then they may be better off just insisting on a remedy of the dealer's choosing since it should then be a bit easier to win.
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 15th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
    I've just had further dialogue with the dealer and he said that "I can prove at the point of sale that the head gasket was not faulty, and that is all I need to do under the law"
    Originally posted by lozkinjones
    If the dealer can prove this then I believe you will need to prove, on the balance of probability, that there was something else wrong with the car, when you bought it that caused it to fail after 19 days.

    You could try and argue it was insufficiently durable at the point of sale, but I think what would be regarded as sufficiently durable would be depend on the age of the car etc so a judge might decide that an old car breakdown after 19 days does not necessary mean it was most likely inherently faulty.
    • lozkinjones
    • By lozkinjones 15th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    lozkinjones
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    Thanks again for all the help. The dealer has made it clear he won't be refunding or paying towards the repair as he can "prove" there was nothing wrong with the head gasket at the point of sale.

    The garage where the car was told have told me to stand my ground as the car was clearly "not fit for purpose" within 30 days of purchase.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 15th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    • 9,589 Posts
    • 10,748 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    The garage where the car was told have told me to stand my ground as the car was clearly "not fit for purpose" within 30 days of purchase.
    Originally posted by lozkinjones
    But are they willing to back this up by writing a report stating that the fault occurred because of something that was present when you purchased the car?
    • naedanger
    • By naedanger 15th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • 2,191 Posts
    • 1,772 Thanks
    naedanger
    Thanks again for all the help. The dealer has made it clear he won't be refunding or paying towards the repair as he can "prove" there was nothing wrong with the head gasket at the point of sale.

    The garage where the car was told have told me to stand my ground as the car was clearly "not fit for purpose" within 30 days of purchase.
    Originally posted by lozkinjones

    The dealer is at fault if he sold you a car that was faulty at the point of sale. However being free from fault does not just mean being in working order at the point of sale. It would be faulty if for example it was insufficiently durable. But on a second hand car I suspect what is regarded as being insufficiently durable will be arguable. (Ultimately it would be a judge's decision if the matter went to court.)

    If you only insist on a remedy (i.e. a repair, replacement or refund at the dealer's option) and the matter goes to court the onus will be on the dealer to prove the car was (more likely than not) not faulty at the point of sale. If you insist on a full refund the onus will be on you proving the car was (more likely than not) faulty at the point of sale.

    You could demand a remedy and explain that you believe the car was insufficiently durable at the point of sale. Then see what their evidence is to prove otherwise before deciding whether or not to risk suing them.
    • ammalik786
    • By ammalik786 24th Mar 17, 1:07 AM
    • 41 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    ammalik786
    hi, I would be grateful for any advice. I brought a car from a garage 2 weeks ago for £4000. car was smoking badly and therefore I got it secice by kwik fit and got an independant report done. findings were injector issue, turbo pipe leak, brake discs under limit, tyres under limit and clutch slipping. Ive contacted the dealerti reject but he's being funny and not assisting. after many letters I've now filed for small claims court. do I have any chance? any assistance much appreciated
    • tykesi
    • By tykesi 24th Mar 17, 9:10 AM
    • 1,813 Posts
    • 2,501 Thanks
    tykesi
    hi, I would be grateful for any advice. I brought a car from a garage 2 weeks ago for £4000. car was smoking badly and therefore I got it secice by kwik fit and got an independant report done. findings were injector issue, turbo pipe leak, brake discs under limit, tyres under limit and clutch slipping. Ive contacted the dealerti reject but he's being funny and not assisting. after many letters I've now filed for small claims court. do I have any chance? any assistance much appreciated
    Originally posted by ammalik786
    This is someone else's thread you've hijacked and the advice has been tailored to them. You need to start your own thread if you want meaningful advice.
    £2017 in 2017 - £5396.83
    • NotRichAtAll
    • By NotRichAtAll 24th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • 679 Posts
    • 502 Thanks
    NotRichAtAll
    there is a display on the dash that displays oil levels
    are you sure it displays oil level and not oil pressure?

    some interesting info here
    https://gobdp.com/blog/causes-blown-head-gasket/

    did you test drive the car?
    have you noticed any fluids under the car where you park?
    if the gasket was blown at point of sale you'd have known about it, so in all honesty i don't think the dealer has deliberately sold you a broken car. Out of curiosity what make car was it and what age is it?

    would like to add i do not work for the link above nor am i promoting their product, google search pointed me to that link.
    Last edited by NotRichAtAll; 24-03-2017 at 11:13 AM.
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