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  • FIRST POST
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 15th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    • 20Posts
    • 6Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    Boiler Thread
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 10:14 AM
    Boiler Thread 15th Mar 17 at 10:14 AM
    Hi,

    i couldn't find a thread specific for boiler help, so just tell me off if this is in the wrong place.

    I have been having issues with my boiler, 5 visits and still no luck, i just have a few questions:

    1- When my day time switch is on, the place where the electrics of the element stick out, the metal casing gets warm, expected as the water is being heated.
    2- When the economy 7 is on this is cold.

    The boiler guys said they changed something called the stat, but no luck, what is this? What is a stat.

    This morning water was running out of the overflow with the economy 7 on but the element casing and boiler itself was cold, usually this is hot and the airing cupboard is hot.
    I am pulling my hair out at the moment as i dont know what the STAT is and after 5 visits nothing.

    Cheers
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • 3,661 Posts
    • 1,971 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    For STAT read thermostat. This is usually the device that limits boiler heating to a certain temperature ( which can usually be changed by the user).

    I would change my heating engineer.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 15th Mar 17, 1:11 PM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:11 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:11 PM
    The title of the thread is misleading. A 'boiler' uses gas/oil/LPG/electricity to heat the hot water for Central Heating and Hot Water for taps etc.

    You appear to be talking about a Hot Water tank with an immersion heater. The immersion heater(there can be two) actually heats the water and the thermostat(stat) fits on the top and is where 'the electrics of the element stick out'

    The principle of Economy 7 is that your Hot Water tank should be heated during the 7 hours off peak electricity, and the water only heated during the day when you need extra hot water.

    Could it be that you have two immersion heaters - the one in the top being for use during the day(if needed) and one in the bottom that uses off-peak electricity?

    You appear to need an electrician rather than a plumber.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 15th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    Boiler
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:23 PM
    Hi, thanks for the reply.

    Apologies if the title is misleading.

    The house is heated by storage heaters run off electric, nothing to dow tih the boiler

    The boiler only provides hot water, there is one tank and it is 210L in size, we have a small flat so i can guarantee there is no other boiler, there are two elements with wires and casing coming out of it.

    When we use the day time switch on the wall, the top element gets very warm and gives hot water.

    The bottom one seems to be broken, the casing doesn't get warm but the weird thing is, if i turn that thermostat to 5, too high, hot water floods out of the overflow.

    I cant figure out what is going on as, if the casing is not getting hot, shouldn't that mean it is not working, not sure why i get water pouring out.

    At the moment we are 2 visits in by the electricians in the beginning and 3 for the plumber.

    I was told to contact my energy supplier as there could be something with the meter that needs to be adjusted, the clock might not be set correctly with the economy 7, my supplier has offered to change the meter but had no idea what they were talking about. This is pretty confusing, but i am still left with no hot water...

    Totally confused now...
    • Alter ego
    • By Alter ego 15th Mar 17, 1:30 PM
    • 1,944 Posts
    • 1,870 Thanks
    Alter ego
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:30 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:30 PM
    The stat is the thermostat as mentioned above. It is nothing more than a switch operated by heat.

    The bottom immersion heater is usually connected to night time cheaper electricity.

    You do not have a boiler- just a hot water tank.
    Last edited by Alter ego; 15-03-2017 at 1:32 PM.
    Ignore me if you like, it's not the real me anyway.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 15th Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    Hot water tank
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    Hi,

    thanks for that, i have a hot water tank.

    I will investigate further online.

    cheers.
    • UK_Saver
    • By UK_Saver 15th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    UK_Saver
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    Usually when there is no hot water the thermostat has kicked in to prevent overheating.
    Sometimes there is a reset button you can push on them to reset it.

    It may be your element or thermostat on the bottom is faulty.

    Type into youtube -

    HOW TO CHANGE IMMERSION HEATER - Plumbing Tips

    For a tips video.

    Usually you need to isolate the elecricity turn off so nothing is live, empty boiler of water and replace immersion heater element and thermostat.

    You can get replacement elements with thermostats on ebay.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 15th Mar 17, 5:43 PM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:43 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:43 PM
    The top immersion heater appears to be working as designed, i.e. it works when switched on, albeit it it uses daytime electricity and is meant to only be used when you run out of hot water heated by the bottom immersion on off-peak rates.

    The bottom immersion heater is either faulty - but you say the 'stat' was changed - or supply is not getting to the immersion heater. It should take an electrician minutes to establish the which of those choices are causing the problem.

    If the meter clock was not correctly set for E7(a common problem) it would simply heat the water at other times of the day/night.
    Last edited by Cardew; 15-03-2017 at 5:46 PM.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 16th Mar 17, 1:26 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:26 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Mar 17, 1:26 PM
    Thanks Cardew, i am still working through some tests, when i called the company that fixed it they said the guy had logged on the call that he had changed the stat, i took that to mean the thermostat although it doesn't look new to me.

    So i am doing some testing:

    1) On Saturday 11th Mar - no hot water, found they had turned both both thermostat settings down to 1, so i turned it up to max (5) on Sunday.

    2) On Monday 13th Mar - Found hot water pouring out of the overflow pipe at 6am so turned the dial down to 4

    3) On Tuesday 14th Mar - still water pouring out, turned the dial down to 3 at 6am

    4) Didn't pay attention Wednesday as i had a day off but Thursday 196th Mar, got up at 6am still found hot water pouring out so this morning turned it down to 2 and will see tonight/ tomorrow what happens.

    If i have hot water pouring out again i will try setting 1 and then see.

    If all this fails then i will give them another call.

    Thanks

    Karl
    • molerat
    • By molerat 16th Mar 17, 3:14 PM
    • 16,204 Posts
    • 10,340 Thanks
    molerat
    Adjusting the thermostat sets how hot the water gets, it should have nothing to do with water pouring out of the overflow. If the water was getting hot enough to cause that problem you would most certainly hear it boiling and banging. Possibly one of the other valves is faulty. I assume it is one of these fancy tanks so can you tell us the make and model, if it is many regular plumbers have not got a clue. Unusual to have the stat marked 1-6, normally marked in degrees, are you sure that is what you are adjusting ? Maybe contact the manufacturer and see if they have a company in the area that knows what they are doing.
    Last edited by molerat; 16-03-2017 at 3:26 PM.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 16th Mar 17, 4:10 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    It is about 12 years old, i am not at home at the moment but will get the make and model tonight, i should be able to post an image also.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 17th Mar 17, 10:03 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    Immersion Madness
    http://prnt.sc/el13v8

    I have attached the image above, i cant upload a file so have added this to a free screen shot website.

    To explain the image, i have an immersion heater:

    1) The bottom element in the 'Off Peak' and links to the wall switch at the front of the image

    2) the middle element is the 'On Peak' and links to the wall switch furthest away

    3) The over flow pipe is the right hand side pipe with the white plastic casing, the black casing just above that allows you to see the water running off, and you can put your finger in to see if it is cold or hot water.

    For two days now we have not used the switch at the back, the middle element, i have only had the economy 7 switched on, the bottom element, switch at the front.

    Each element housing unit has a small dial in there, i have both temperature gauges set to the middle.

    This morning i woke up and found the following:

    1) The front switch was on, the economy 7 (off peak).
    2) I checked the bottom element and the metal casing was cold.
    3) The switch at the back was off (on peak)
    4) The middle element, the on peak, was too hot to touch
    5) hot water was pouring out of the overflow pipe on the right.

    How is that possible, the economy opp peak switch was on but the off peak element was hot.

    Its like the' Krypton Factor' has come back.

    Any ideas?

    I have booked an electrician and a plumber next Thursday to work together.

    Thanks.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 17th Mar 17, 11:10 AM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    • Rubidium
    • By Rubidium 17th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • 637 Posts
    • 414 Thanks
    Rubidium
    http://prnt.sc/el13v8

    I have attached the image above, i cant upload a file so have added this to a free screen shot website.

    To explain the image, i have an immersion heater:

    1) The bottom element in the 'Off Peak' and links to the wall switch at the front of the image

    2) the middle element is the 'On Peak' and links to the wall switch furthest away

    3) The over flow pipe is the right hand side pipe with the white plastic casing, the black casing just above that allows you to see the water running off, and you can put your finger in to see if it is cold or hot water.

    For two days now we have not used the switch at the back, the middle element, i have only had the economy 7 switched on, the bottom element, switch at the front.

    Each element housing unit has a small dial in there, i have both temperature gauges set to the middle.

    This morning i woke up and found the following:

    1) The front switch was on, the economy 7 (off peak).
    2) I checked the bottom element and the metal casing was cold.
    3) The switch at the back was off (on peak)
    4) The middle element, the on peak, was too hot to touch
    5) hot water was pouring out of the overflow pipe on the right.

    How is that possible, the economy opp peak switch was on but the off peak element was hot.

    Its like the' Krypton Factor' has come back.

    Any ideas?

    I have booked an electrician and a plumber next Thursday to work together.

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by oridiusmorphius
    You are booking the wrong tradesmen if this has not be resolved after five visits!

    Any electrician should be able to test and verify that the immersion heaters are working correctly very easily.

    Water should not be overflowing into the tundish and this proves that you have employed unsuitable unqualified general plumbers.

    Unvented hot water systems should only be installed and serviced by a qualified and competent person holding a current G3 Unvented Qualification.

    You said that you would provide the make and model of the cylinder and your picture is not good enough quality to see this.

    Do your storage heaters charge overnight as they should? If not post pictures of your consumer unit, meter and any time switches is fitted.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 17th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    There are several versions of Economy 7 supply.

    Most(not all) newer properties have all electricity consumed in the property in the 7 hour off-peak period register on the off-peak register. The clock by the meter only switches the electricity supply to the peak(for 17 hours) and off-peak(for 7 hours) registers.

    Other properties are wired so the immersion heater and storage heaters are powered only during the 7 hours off-peak. i.e. in your case, supply to your bottom immersion heater will only happen at off-peak times.

    It will be very easy for an electrician to connect the bottom immersion heater to a(normal) 240 volt supply and check it is working or not.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 17th Mar 17, 1:08 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    In answer to the questions:

    1) I had an electrician attended on the first two visits and they claimed everything was fine. As i live in rented property, i don't get to choose the company who does the repair work, it is the landlord.

    2) the only reference to the name of the item i can find is 210L HYDHS38A, Hydroflow.

    3) I have been here 10 years so it was installed a long time ago, i suspect the guys who have been to fix it, have made it worse.

    4) The Economy 7 does come on over night, as i also have electric storage heaters, but during the night it is the day time element that is getting hot.

    5) '...i.e. in your case, supply to your bottom immersion heater will only happen at off-peak times.'... True, that is what used to happen, we used to get a lot of hot water, now we have been struggling with about 50% all in all of what we used to get.

    Unfortunately, the only picture i have with me in work of my meter is this one:

    http://prnt.sc/el397o

    Its not great quality, the electric company have offered to change the meter...
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 17th Mar 17, 2:05 PM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    I
    Unfortunately, the only picture i have with me in work of my meter is this one:

    http://prnt.sc/el397o

    Its not great quality, the electric company have offered to change the meter...
    Originally posted by oridiusmorphius
    That is a normal E7 meter, there is normally a mechanical clock that moves a pointer from the 'low register' to 'normal' register.

    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 17th Mar 17, 2:07 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    Could there be something wrong with the meter, is that what you think? I have looked around the meter and there is nothing like that on it.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 17th Mar 17, 2:19 PM
    • 26,529 Posts
    • 12,773 Thanks
    Cardew
    Could there be something wrong with the meter, is that what you think? I have looked around the meter and there is nothing like that on it.
    Originally posted by oridiusmorphius
    No I don't think the meter is faulty.

    This is a typical mechanical clock. However if your storage heaters are working, it isn't the clock either. I take it the electrician would have checked the RCB(fuse trip) for the lower immersion heater.


    Last edited by Cardew; 17-03-2017 at 2:22 PM.
    • oridiusmorphius
    • By oridiusmorphius 17th Mar 17, 2:29 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    oridiusmorphius
    Well, the electrician claimed he did, i have him and a plumber coming on Thursday next week and i will be talking to them and try to figure out what they have done and are doing.

    My mete doesn't have anything like this, my supplier have offered to change the meter just in case thought.
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