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    • jam1991
    • By jam1991 15th Mar 17, 9:04 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 1Thanks
    jam1991
    Civil Enforcement Ltd - Assistance Please
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:04 AM
    Civil Enforcement Ltd - Assistance Please 15th Mar 17 at 9:04 AM
    Summary of events so far:
    PCN notice arrived in the post to say, overstayed parking by 28 minutes in a local KFC/Shopping Car Park.

    Previously to my knowledge car parking has been free for 90 minutes, however was recently reduced to 60 minutes, hence me overstaying un-intentionally.

    I used the appeal letter template from the MSE parking ticket page and responded explaining the fact, no obvious signage was displayed for parking time changes and the fact the charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the company/landowner.

    I received a rejection response and as this is now over the 14 days period of £60 payment, the cost is now £100. I have now received a "Final Reminder before Legal Action" letter requesting the £100 before debt recovery and court proceedings.

    This is the first time I have dealt with a PCN and would like some specific advice as to what my next action should be;
    Respond again?
    Ignore?
    Another option?

    Thank you in advance.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Mar 17, 9:09 AM
    • 38,142 Posts
    • 76,282 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:09 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:09 AM
    Which template did you use please? Was it the most excellent one from the NEWBIES thread or was it the absolutely dreadful "official" MSE one that says, "The reason I parked was .." that immediately throws away the protection of the Protection of Freedom Act by revealing the driver's identity?

    Did you get a PoPLA code with your rejection? If so, use the template appeal points from post 3 of the NEWBIES thread to construct an appeal. Post up your draft here for the experts to look at before you submit it.

    What happened when you complained to the KFC manager or the landowner?
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-03-2017 at 9:11 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 15th Mar 17, 9:22 AM
    • 6,156 Posts
    • 4,962 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:22 AM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:22 AM
    It may well be that this reduction in time is contrary to thr Council's wishes. You can check this out with the council, who often stipulate on planning applications a minimum period that shoppers can park If the PPC has unilaterally cut that they could be in trouble..

    Only an hour in an outlet with shops and a restaurant seems stingy, and perhaps not in the best interests of shoppers, have you any spoken to any of the tenants?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Mar 17, 3:01 PM
    • 44,143 Posts
    • 56,871 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:01 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:01 PM
    Summary of events so far:
    PCN notice arrived in the post to say, overstayed parking by 28 minutes in a local KFC/Shopping Car Park.

    Previously to my knowledge car parking has been free for 90 minutes, however was recently reduced to 60 minutes, hence me overstaying un-intentionally.

    I used the appeal letter template from the MSE parking ticket page and responded explaining the fact, no obvious signage was displayed for parking time changes and the fact the charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the company/landowner.

    I received a rejection response and as this is now over the 14 days period of £60 payment, the cost is now £100. I have now received a "Final Reminder before Legal Action" letter requesting the £100 before debt recovery and court proceedings..
    Originally posted by jam1991
    Oh dear, that sounds like the awful MSE one, hopeless and gives away the driver...with CEL, who can't hold keepers liable, that is just plain annoying of MSE to let people do this and say 'the reason why I parked was'.

    POPLA offered in the rejection letter or not?
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jam1991
    • By jam1991 20th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jam1991
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    Thank you for the replies, POPLA was offered in the rejection letter however due to working away outside of the UK. The 28 days passed on the 16th March.


    How am I now best to proceed? (Wish I'd found this forum initially).
    • jam1991
    • By jam1991 20th Mar 17, 1:20 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jam1991
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 1:20 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Mar 17, 1:20 PM
    My only letter response to the first PCN letter:

    "03/02/2017
    Civil Enforcement
    Horton House
    Exchange Flags
    Liverpool
    L2 3PF

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Ticket number: xxxxxxx
    Vehicle registration number: xxxxxx

    You issued me with a parking ticket on 27/01/2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued.
    I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:

    • The charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
    The amount you have charged is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.

    In my case, the £100.00 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of 28 minutes. I therefore feel the amount you are asking for is excessive.

    If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific point raised in my letter.

    Yours faithfully"
    • jam1991
    • By jam1991 20th Mar 17, 1:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    jam1991
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 1:21 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Mar 17, 1:21 PM
    POPLA website is still allowing me to submit an appeal despite it passing 28 days.

    Interested in people's advice here first, thank you in advance.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Mar 17, 3:37 PM
    • 13,570 Posts
    • 16,634 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 3:37 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Mar 17, 3:37 PM
    cobble one together from other similar threads and submit it asap under OTHER, attaching the appeal as a pdf or a word doc

    dont wait for advice , just do it ASAP

    it usually allows you about 33 days so its going to close very soon , dont miss it

    post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread will help you with this
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 20th Mar 17, 3:43 PM
    • 38,142 Posts
    • 76,282 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 3:43 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Mar 17, 3:43 PM
    My only letter response to the first PCN letter:

    "03/02/2017
    Civil Enforcement
    Horton House
    Exchange Flags
    Liverpool
    L2 3PF

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Ticket number: xxxxxxx
    Vehicle registration number: xxxxxx

    You issued me with a parking ticket on 27/01/2017 but I believe it was unfairly issued.
    I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:

    • The charge is disproportionate and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
    The amount you have charged is not based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.

    In my case, the £100.00 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of 28 minutes. I therefore feel the amount you are asking for is excessive.

    If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific point raised in my letter.

    Yours faithfully"
    Originally posted by jam1991
    Good, so no admission as to the driver's identity.

    Do as Redx suggested and bung in a PoPLA appeal ASAP using as many of the relevant template appeal points you can find in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 8:31 PM
    • 44,143 Posts
    • 56,871 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    POPLA website is still allowing me to submit an appeal despite it passing 28 days.

    Interested in people's advice here first, thank you in advance.
    Originally posted by jam1991
    Yes we know that - it will last only tonight/tomorrow so get it in NOW!

    Hurry up, it's CEL, it is easy.

    Throw together the templates in the NEWBIES thread post #3 which I have already written for you:


    - no keeper liability - CEL's NTK is not POFA compliant

    - the appellant has not been shown to be the individual liable

    - unclear signs (you can add that the driver was used to the fact that it was 90 minutes free until recently and CEL failed to meet the BPA CoP requirement to clearly sign any change in enforcement rules/timings)

    - no landowner liability



    JOB DONE. Upload that as a PDF under 'OTHER' NOW.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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