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  • FIRST POST
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Mar 17, 9:57 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    Supreme Court Ilott judgement.
    • #1
    • 15th Mar 17, 9:57 AM
    Supreme Court Ilott judgement. 15th Mar 17 at 9:57 AM
    www.supremcourt.uk for full details.
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Mar 17, 11:03 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:03 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Mar 17, 11:03 AM
    www.supremecourt.uk
    • FreeBear
    • By FreeBear 15th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
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    FreeBear
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Mar 17, 1:16 PM
    https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0203.html

    http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/17.html

    In a nutshell, the supreme court has upheld the original ruling by DJ Million and rejected the quantum ruling that would have seen Ilott receive some £165,000.

    How does this affect future claims ?

    It doesn't - Although an adult child has the right to bring a claim, he/she still has to satisfy all parts of Sec.3 of the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975. Just because there is an "expectation", it does not follow that there is a right to any inheritance.
    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
    • Ganga
    • By Ganga 15th Mar 17, 3:40 PM
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    Ganga
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:40 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Mar 17, 3:40 PM
    Without reading the whole judgement,did the charities get all the money and the estranged daughter get nothing?
    ITS NOT EASY TO GET EVERYTHING WRONG ,I HAVE TO WORK HARD TO DO IT!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 15th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:27 PM
    https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0203.html

    http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/17.html

    In a nutshell, the supreme court has upheld the original ruling by DJ Million and rejected the quantum ruling that would have seen Ilott receive some £165,000.

    How does this affect future claims ?

    It doesn't - Although an adult child has the right to bring a claim, he/she still has to satisfy all parts of Sec.3 of the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975. Just because there is an "expectation", it does not follow that there is a right to any inheritance.
    Originally posted by FreeBear
    It does affect future claims becuase it does offer some clarification of the law albeit the the circumstances in Ilott were very, very unusual. Also it might encourage the Government to revise the currect legislation.
    • relaxtwotribes
    • By relaxtwotribes 15th Mar 17, 4:34 PM
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    relaxtwotribes
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:34 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:34 PM
    Without reading the whole judgement,did the charities get all the money and the estranged daughter get nothing?
    Originally posted by Ganga
    No need to read the whole judgement. Just the Press Release will do.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Mar 17, 4:50 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:50 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:50 PM
    for a summary(before the ruling) BBC breakfast at 1:39 cover this

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08ht6rb/breakfast-15032017


    Remember this case was not about the claim being valid or not that had already been decided, but about the size of the provision.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Mar 17, 4:57 PM
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    getmore4less
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:57 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Mar 17, 4:57 PM
    or the video of the Judgment summary 10mins

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/watch/uksc-2015-0203/judgment.html
    • securityguy
    • By securityguy 15th Mar 17, 5:33 PM
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    securityguy
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:33 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Mar 17, 5:33 PM
    It does affect future claims becuase it does offer some clarification of the law albeit the the circumstances in Ilott were very, very unusual. Also it might encourage the Government to revise the currect legislation.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    As you say, the case is almost sui generis, so its long-term impact may be small.

    One thing I found pretty distasteful was the Appeal Court structuring the payment that they decided such that it would retain access to benefits. If you did that yourself, using (say) a DoV to modify a legacy so that you could continue to claim benefits that would be stopped by a simple capital payment, you would be staring straight down the barrels of a deprivation of assets action. The Supreme Court judgement doesn't see to focus on that particular point; its argument is rather different, in that it says that the district judge's quantum could be spent on household necessities without affecting benefits anyway. But structuring judgements with an eye on benefits is pretty nasty.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th Mar 17, 8:32 AM
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    Pollycat
    Discussed here:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5618301

    Mention made of the structure of the £150k payout and impact (or not) on benefits.

    As the deceased Mrs Jackson had specifically said this (fromm the BBC link in the first post):
    She explicitly instructed the executors of her will to fight any claim Mrs Ilott might make after her death.
    it seems pretty clear that she didn't want her daughter to get a penny.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 16th Mar 17, 11:08 AM
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    TBagpuss
    Without reading the whole judgement,did the charities get all the money and the estranged daughter get nothing?
    Originally posted by Ganga
    No, the court didn't have the power to decide that, the issue wasn't whether she had a claim, it was about whther the decision made by the CofA to overturn the original judgment was correct; i/.e. had the original Judge made a mistake either in how in interpreted the law or the facts. The Supreme court found thathe had not, so his original decision was reinstated.

    This means that she gets the £50K she was originally awarded, less any costs she may have to pay.

    The judgment does mention that an agreement had ben reached so I suspect that the charities agreed not to seek costs from her even thouh they 'won', as they pursued the case in part because they through it had wider implications for them.

    Her own legal team were working pro bono so she won't have to to pay them
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 16th Mar 17, 11:35 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    No, the court didn't have the power to decide that, the issue wasn't whether she had a claim, it was about whther the decision made by the CofA to overturn the original judgment was correct; i/.e. had the original Judge made a mistake either in how in interpreted the law or the facts. The Supreme court found thathe had not, so his original decision was reinstated.

    This means that she gets the £50K she was originally awarded, less any costs she may have to pay.

    The judgment does mention that an agreement had ben reached so I suspect that the charities agreed not to seek costs from her even thouh they 'won', as they pursued the case in part because they through it had wider implications for them.

    Her own legal team were working pro bono so she won't have to to pay them
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    It is also worth stating that the Court was quite critical of the failure by the Goverment to implement the recommedations of the Law Commission report on the legislation. It is probably not a big vote winner so I doubt wee shall see any change in the short term.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th Mar 17, 12:11 PM
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    Pollycat
    Her own legal team were working pro bono so she won't have to to pay them
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I wonder how much time & effort they have put into this 13 year long battle.
    • TW1234
    • By TW1234 16th Mar 17, 5:04 PM
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    TW1234
    I do not understand the basic pertinence of this case.
    How does it determine whether a testator has absolute right to determine their beneficiaries? Myy understanding in this case Ilott was intentionally excluded from benefit but has received an award of £50k despite of not being a dependent.
    Most of the argument seems to follow on from an agreement that some entitl;ement was due, but the quantum was the subject of dispute.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 16th Mar 17, 5:43 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    You need to read the full judgement to understand all the nuances. Have you done that?
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 17th Mar 17, 8:46 AM
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    paddy's mum
    In my view, far too little has been said about the source of Mother's wealth. It would appear that most of it came from compensation paid to her for the death of her husband in an industrial accident just before their child was born.

    I dislike the phrase "turning in his grave" as both mawkish and assuming but in this case, I would think that Father would indeed be turning in his grave that his daughter has lost him, his love, care and support through her life and ultimately was discarded by her mother for defiance.

    I believe that the original will says far more about Mother than it does about Daughter.

    What normal person allows anger and malice to prevent them forming a relationship of any kind with grandchildren, who are themselves innocent of any wrongdoing?
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 17th Mar 17, 8:50 AM
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    Pollycat
    In my view, far too little has been said about the source of Mother's wealth. It would appear that most of it came from compensation paid to her for the death of her husband in an industrial accident just before their child was born.

    I dislike the phrase "turning in his grave" as both mawkish and assuming but in this case, I would think that Father would indeed be turning in his grave that his daughter has lost him, his love, care and support through her life and ultimately was discarded by her mother for defiance.

    I believe that the original will says far more about Mother than it does about Daughter.

    What normal person allows anger and malice to prevent them forming a relationship of any kind with grandchildren, who are themselves innocent of any wrongdoing?
    Originally posted by paddy's mum
    Maybe it was Mrs Ilott who was angry and malicious and wouldn't allow her Mother to see her children.

    We have no idea what went on between the Mother, daughter and son-in-law for all those years.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 17th Mar 17, 9:01 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    Maybe it was Mrs Ilott who was angry and malicious and wouldn't allow her Mother to see her children.

    We have no idea what went on between the Mother, daughter and son-in-law for all those years.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Read the full judgement that tells you more. The edited version published for the press does not, obviously, tell the full story. There is little doubt that Mrs. Ilott's mother was an extrremely nasty, and indeed, vindictive woman who wanted to cause her daughter, and her grandchildren, as much difficulty as she possibly could. Quite shameful.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 17th Mar 17, 9:20 AM
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    Malthusian
    There is little doubt that Mrs. Ilott's mother was an extrremely nasty, and indeed, vindictive woman who wanted to cause her daughter, and her grandchildren, as much difficulty as she possibly could. Quite shameful.
    Originally posted by Yorkshireman99
    Not sure how you reach that conclusion. Not giving someone your money is not "causing them difficulty". And I have read the full judgment.

    The reason the family Ilott were in financial difficulty was because both Mrs Ilott and her husband were permanently unemployed.
    • TW1234
    • By TW1234 17th Mar 17, 9:49 AM
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    TW1234
    In my view, far too little has been said about the source of Mother's wealth. It would appear that most of it came from compensation paid to her for the death of her husband in an industrial accident just before their child was born.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum
    The source of the wealth is irrelevant, other than on any moral responsibility consideration. The estate was the property of the deceased and the right over its disposition is the only matter of argument.
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