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  • FIRST POST
    • t-mids
    • By t-mids 14th Mar 17, 9:57 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 4Thanks
    t-mids
    'Forced' work from Job Center.
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 9:57 PM
    'Forced' work from Job Center. 14th Mar 17 at 9:57 PM
    I have been signed on since Dec 2016 (only receive JSA) and today was my appointment and the lady told me that I have to attend an actual job, which is full time hours for 8 weeks but no pay. She said I have to take this as the government is forcing people to do this. I honestly would not mind doing this job, however not for free.

    Is this right? I really do not want to work for anybody for free. I have heard of the work programme but this does not sound like it. I don't even know the title of this program as she said she could not show me any information on it as her computer was not working at the moment. She just written down an address and phone number and told me to go there.

    I hope this is in the right forum also.
Page 3
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 15th Mar 17, 8:11 PM
    • 1,400 Posts
    • 3,483 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    This thread has made me smile. My first thought was your getting paid to do nothing at the minute and you are happy with that, but you are not happy to work and get paid less than NMW.

    But as I read more replies, I thought about it a little more. I can not remember how much I have paid in Tax, NI, Council tax, corporation tax, tax on goods, fuel, stamp duty etc etc and I would be a bit peeved if someone told me I had to go and work for free (or £2 an hour).

    But then I kept coming back to the same thing, last month I was quite ill - nothing serious just a pretty bad cold. I was too tired to go out, but by the 3rd day I was THAT bored I just went for a walk to the end of the road and back (20 minutes!) just to get out of the house. I hate doing nothing, if my options were JSA and sitting at home or JSA and working for free, I would chose the latter every time. If nothing else it gets me out of the house, it goes on my CV and I might end up meeting new people or getting a job at the end of it.

    Im not going to judge (not that you would care anyway hopefully), but maybe look at the bigger picture rather than just the next 2 months. As the old saying goes, it is easier to get a job if you have one.
    Originally posted by ACG
    When I was on JSA I wasn't sitting at home doing nothing! I was applying for jobs every single day, I was volunteering, I took some courses. I would have been rather peeved to have had to stop doing my productive, job hunting activities to go and provide free labour for an employer that should be taking people on if it has work that needs doing!

    From what I understand, these 'work placements' are hardly ever at places where useful skills can be gained or that would enhance most CVs. I think they are only ever remotely useful for people who have literally never worked and need to be able to demonstrate that they can turn up on time each day and follow basic instructions. Even people in that situation though should be paid the NMW for their work.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 15th Mar 17, 8:11 PM
    • 4,672 Posts
    • 3,811 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Idiotic post to say the least, you assume everyone has savings and also assume that those that do can make them last until they find a job. Idiot.
    Originally posted by paddedjohn
    Why is it idiotic to want to support yourself? At least I wouldn't be costing the taxpayer any money. Benefits should be there as a safety net for those who really need the help, not an automatic right.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 15th Mar 17, 8:15 PM
    • 1,400 Posts
    • 3,483 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    Sure - so people who work have to scrape and save and people who NEVER worked can enjoy their Jeremy Kyle... sure...
    Originally posted by gettingready
    I think that people who have never worked are much rarer than things like Jeremy Kyle and the Daily Mail would have us believe.
    • paddedjohn
    • By paddedjohn 15th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
    • 7,003 Posts
    • 7,694 Thanks
    paddedjohn
    Why is it idiotic to want to support yourself? At least I wouldn't be costing the taxpayer any money. Benefits should be there as a safety net for those who really need the help, not an automatic right.
    Originally posted by Doshwaster
    Agreed that benefits should be a safety net but you assume that everyone has savings that they can use while looking for a job. Many people can't afford to save.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
    • invisibility
    • By invisibility 15th Mar 17, 8:47 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    invisibility
    This 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to whether you would claim benefits/live off savings is awful.

    The whole point of benefits is so that you don't have to save up for a safety net in case you were out of work. Of course, many do, but you shouldn't HAVE to use your savings for that.

    You have the right to claim JSA if you have less than £16,000 in savings. Could someone who has £15,000 afford to live off their savings for a while? Yes. But that's besides the point. I wouldn't judge them for claiming JSA at all. I'd want to protect my savings too.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 15th Mar 17, 9:03 PM
    • 1,319 Posts
    • 2,834 Thanks
    Londonsu
    This 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to whether you would claim benefits/live off savings is awful.

    The whole point of benefits is so that you don't have to save up for a safety net in case you were out of work. Of course, many do, but you shouldn't HAVE to use your savings for that.

    You have the right to claim JSA if you have less than £16,000 in savings. Could someone who has £15,000 afford to live off their savings for a while? Yes. But that's besides the point. I wouldn't judge them for claiming JSA at all. I'd want to protect my savings too.
    Originally posted by invisibility

    Sorry that's not strictly true for income based JSA you can only claim the full amount if you have less then 6k in savings anything above 6k you lose £1 a week for every £250 over £6k. Over 16k - you get nothing. Also if you have a partner/spouse you would not be entitled to claim IB JSA if their income is more than the government says a working age couple need to live on and that's £114.85


    Whether you want to protect your savings is neither here nor there if your savings take you over the IB JSA limit, you don't get the choice, you don't qualify
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 15th Mar 17, 9:12 PM
    • 4,672 Posts
    • 3,811 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    This 'holier than thou' attitude when it comes to whether you would claim benefits/live off savings is awful.

    The whole point of benefits is so that you don't have to save up for a safety net in case you were out of work. Of course, many do, but you shouldn't HAVE to use your savings for that.
    Originally posted by invisibility
    Surely the whole point in saving is that you have some rainy day money for unexpected events and emergencies. It doesn't get much rainier than being out of work.

    You have the right to claim JSA if you have less than £16,000 in savings. Could someone who has £15,000 afford to live off their savings for a while? Yes. But that's besides the point. I wouldn't judge them for claiming JSA at all. I'd want to protect my savings too.
    Originally posted by invisibility
    So if you had £15,000 in the bank you think that the taxpayer should pay your living expenses - including paying your rent/mortgage - so that you didn't have to touch your savings?
    • takman
    • By takman 15th Mar 17, 9:39 PM
    • 2,393 Posts
    • 2,011 Thanks
    takman
    Sure - so people who work have to scrape and save and people who NEVER worked can enjoy their Jeremy Kyle... sure...
    Originally posted by gettingready
    It's not difficult to save money when your working. The problem is that people find a way to spend every penny they have without thinking. If people spent a little bit of time getting the best deal on everything they buy they will be able to save money easily.
    • randomfandom
    • By randomfandom 15th Mar 17, 10:09 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    randomfandom
    I despair of people who are so judgemental of those who need to sign on.
    Many of us are actually much closer to having to having to rely on benefits than we'd care to think; redundancy, debilitating illness or an accident is all it takes to turn someone's life upside down and once you're on the floor, it can be very difficult to get back on your feet again, as much as you may desperately want to.

    As for mandatory Jobcentre schemes, they're a waste of time and money, which is why the government scrapped them some time ago. The only people who benefited were the programme providers who were paid millions of pounds of tax payers money and yet failed miserably to help the vast majority of unemployed people back in to work.

    If people are going to be angry about anything they should be railing against the government who were happy to waste money - money we're constantly told is in short supply - on schemes and programmes for which there was never any evidence that they would be effective.
    Last edited by randomfandom; 16-03-2017 at 7:46 PM.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Mar 17, 10:09 PM
    • 1,104 Posts
    • 1,008 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    op hows it going?
    • stuart30
    • By stuart30 16th Mar 17, 10:27 PM
    • 495 Posts
    • 217 Thanks
    stuart30
    What about prostitution as a way of making a living..cant be that hard,yes ok some late nights involved and the odd STI or is it STD,but then come on weve all had them haven't we so no biggie there...lol

    And lets be honest there's some right old dogs walking the streets..some have hardly any teeth..suppose thats snogging out of the question.

    Must remeber to call me Nanna tomorrow..think her money worries will be over soon.
    • Vectis
    • By Vectis 17th Mar 17, 8:39 AM
    • 430 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    Vectis
    When I was on JSA I wasn't sitting at home doing nothing! I was applying for jobs every single day, I was volunteering, I took some courses. I would have been rather peeved to have had to stop doing my productive, job hunting activities to go and provide free labour for an employer that should be taking people on if it has work that needs doing!...
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    Fair points about you spending your time applying for jobs etc but, unfortunately, that wasn't the reason the op gave for not wanting to take this work experience post. It was because he/she thought they would be 'working for free' and not because it would curtail their efforts at finding work.

    ...I have to attend an actual job...
    Originally posted by t-mids
    ...but no pay...
    Originally posted by t-mids
    ...I honestly would not mind doing this job, however not for free...
    Originally posted by t-mids
    ...I really do not want to work for anybody for free...
    Originally posted by t-mids

    On a slightly different note, I wish some others would take their personal arguments off the general message board and perhaps use personal messaging if they want to continue them. It's boring listening to two people having a spat in public.
    • jbond
    • By jbond 25th Mar 17, 2:24 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    jbond
    Some of the posts on this thread are really shocking, absolutely no need for such hostility and judgement. Terrible behaviour.
    Originally posted by jondav
    Yep, totally agree!
    I'm afraid that some of the posters on here, are just demonstrating either complete ignorance or straightforward bias, probably because they subscribe to the s**te that the MSM puts out on a daily basis about scroungers, cheats, etc. - which has been seriously pushed by our current Govt.

    To the OP - be extremely careful how you handle this one, and DON'T accept anything until you've gained advice from CAB, especially when it comes to the JC!
    Even with JSA, I would NOT work anywhere for free. You are perfectly entitled to JSA whilst you look for work, but I would definitely NOT accept work without a proper salary. All these employers are doing is taking advantage of people.

    There was a case a while back, where a girl won a high court judgement about being forced to work at Poundland I think it was.

    Take it look at thepoorsideoflife dot com - I don't know how easy it is to navigate, but there is some info on there I understand, about the JC.

    To the others on here - gettingready, and doshwasher on here (I think?) - I hope one day, you hang your heads in shame at the drivel you're coming out with. It would be nice if you could take your heads out of the sand, and wake up to just what is going on!
    • annandale
    • By annandale 25th Mar 17, 3:22 PM
    • 631 Posts
    • 1,544 Thanks
    annandale
    You don't get your mortgage paid if you are on jsa. You get support with mortgage interest only and there's a 39 week wait period before that's paid. As said above, it's 6000 you can have in the bank before jsa is affected. Not 16.
    • annandale
    • By annandale 25th Mar 17, 3:34 PM
    • 631 Posts
    • 1,544 Thanks
    annandale
    As for getting paid to do nothing, jobseekers are expected to spend 35 hours a week job seeking.

    When I was on jsa I couldn't wait to get off it, 73 pounds a week isnt easy to live on particularly if you are running a home on that amount of money.

    Some people can't save, not because they can't manage their money, but because there's nothing left over after rent and bills are paid ..
    • Charityworker
    • By Charityworker 26th Mar 17, 4:45 PM
    • 946 Posts
    • 689 Thanks
    Charityworker
    I'm self employed and I work full time hours for £75 a week and I don't claim any benefits at all. Don't see why it's okay for me and not for others.
    • Sharon87
    • By Sharon87 26th Mar 17, 5:59 PM
    • 3,503 Posts
    • 2,968 Thanks
    Sharon87
    I'm self employed and I work full time hours for £75 a week and I don't claim any benefits at all. Don't see why it's okay for me and not for others.
    Originally posted by Charityworker
    You're self employed so NMW doesn't apply. When you work for someone else you're entitled to NMW.

    These work placements are morally wrong. If a company has someone full time working for them for no money then they're getting free labour. That also means the company may not hire an extra person - which means all in all less jobs and more people on JSA. Why should the government pay these company's wages!

    This is why the scheme ended. If I was unemployed for 3 months I would be peeved if someone tried to put me in an unsuitable 'job' for free, rather than spending my time looking for something suitable. I remember trying to get a job in my dream career when working almost full time at a cinema, it was a lot harder than when I wasn't working.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 26th Mar 17, 6:15 PM
    • 6,096 Posts
    • 4,636 Thanks
    ohreally
    So if you had £15,000 in the bank you think that the taxpayer should pay your living expenses - including paying your rent/mortgage - so that you didn't have to touch your savings?
    Originally posted by Doshwaster
    If you otherwise meet the eligibility criteria why not?

    I'm self employed and I work full time hours for £75 a week
    Originally posted by Charityworker
    This situation is not a sustainable business and may be an exercise in futility.
    Imagination is a mental faculty that serves as a coping mechanism for those who can't or won't accept reality - unicorns and dragons and wives who don't nag, are all figments of the "imagination".

    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
    • kazzah
    • By kazzah 26th Mar 17, 11:43 PM
    • 381 Posts
    • 368 Thanks
    kazzah
    my hubby is currently unemployed
    he has to sign on for JSA every week
    he gets NO job seekers allowance due to a small pension ( £500) per month
    out of that we need to pay £681 mortgage
    council tax £145 per month ( adult son living with us so no point applying for reduction)
    water rates £45 per month
    food
    fuel
    he has worked for 42 years
    when he is unemployed ( he works in the voluntary sector and jobs are usually contract not permanent) he spends ALL day EVERY day searching for suitable jobs to apply for - he spends HOURS tailoring applications for roles against his skill set
    he does this willingly because
    HE WANTS to WORK
    He NEEDS to work until our mortgage is paid off.
    if he had to travel to a "workplace" to do unpaid work- who pays his travel costs ?
    we don't have any spare money and have almost exhausted our life savings - there are lots of people who DO want to work- but I don't see why they should be forced into unpaid work - which lets face it rarely leads to permanent employment - why would an employer pay someone to work if they can get free staff from the Job Centre+
    • annandale
    • By annandale 27th Mar 17, 12:00 AM
    • 631 Posts
    • 1,544 Thanks
    annandale
    If you are self employed, even if you earn a pittance and don't claim other benefits no one is forcing you to put the hours in or risk losing money.

    It's not the same thing. I've been self employed. It's hard going. But if I was putting in full time hours to earn 75 pounds a week I'd probably be looking at finding work.

    A lot of work for very little return
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