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  • FIRST POST
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 14th Mar 17, 9:46 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 3Thanks
    hmmmmm
    Parking Charge Notice from Care Parking at Aldi
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 9:46 PM
    Parking Charge Notice from Care Parking at Aldi 14th Mar 17 at 9:46 PM
    Hi All,

    Was just looking for a bit of guidance if at all possible.

    I have been shopping at Aldi for some time and have parked on their premises for numerous long stays, and have never received any charges whatsoever.

    I have recently been issued with a parking charge notice from a company called Care Parking, the charge being "Exceeded Maximum Stay Period", which is cited as 18 minutes over the parking allowance.

    I called Aldi to try and get the charge dropped, explaining that I was shopping on the complex, which also has numerous other retail outlets. Aldi informed me that the managing company of this car park had changed hands and been recently taken over by Care Parking. Aldi were surprised their customers had not been notified of the changeover, but noted that Care Parking were not working with them, but the landowner instead.

    Aldi recommended that I get in touch with Care Parking to explain that I was shopping in their store and not misusing the car park. I have evidence from online banking that I made purchases in both Aldi and Pound Stretcher, although the amounts spent were quite low. I would have no doubt been in other stores on the complex as well.

    I'd just like some advice on how to move forward with this,

    Many thanks,

    John
Page 2
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 4:31 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    Should I also demand a copy of the authorisation they have for the site too? Thanks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th Mar 17, 4:33 PM
    • 13,985 Posts
    • 17,256 Thanks
    Redx
    you can demand anything you like, but dont expect to get anything
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Mar 17, 4:46 PM
    • 38,906 Posts
    • 77,639 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thanks Coupon-mad, they have an online form, I'll do that today.

    Should I mention anything about the planning permission being subject to providing a 3 hours stay for patrons? Or include anything about the grace period (thanks again PG), as the newbie template only mentions signage.

    Many thanks,

    John
    Originally posted by hmmmmm
    As far as the initial appeal is concerned, you are after a PoPLA code. You stand very little chance of a first stage cancellation, but the bit about 3 hour limit on the original planning permission certainly won't hurt. Whatever you add to the template, never reveal the driver's identity. It is easy to make mistakes like that as you have already found out.

    It wouldn't hurt to mention the UDI reduction in parking time outwith the original planning permission on Aldi's fakebook page as a warning to other shoppers.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-03-2017 at 4:49 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 4:47 PM
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    pappa golf
    Thanks Coupon-mad, they have an online form, I'll do that today.

    Should I mention anything about the planning permission being subject to providing a 3 hours stay for patrons? Or include anything about the grace period (thanks again PG), as the newbie template only mentions signage.

    Many thanks,

    John
    Originally posted by hmmmmm

    care will not care , you want a POPLA code , and get POPLa to kill it
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Mar 17, 4:50 PM
    • 12,653 Posts
    • 19,438 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Use the appeal template as it is. Keep any other powder (like grace periods) dry for POPLA.
    Unless you can get the LA to do anything on the 3 hours limit, you'll get nowhere with it, I'm afraid. It's more of a 'bigger picture' issue than one for getting your ticket cancelled.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 6:15 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    :)
    Apologies I've just seen all of your replies, thank you so much,

    In the meantime I put together a draft, but just let me know if I should stick to the original template, and if so, I'll just send that off

    Here's the reply:

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: PCN No. xxxxxx

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

    Para 205: ďThe requirement of good faith in this context is one of fair and open dealing. Openness requires that the terms should be expressed fully, clearly and legibly, containing no concealed pitfalls or traps. Appropriate prominence should be given to terms which might operate disadvantageously to the customer.Ē

    Underlining that is Section 18.3 of the BPA Code of Practice which gives clear instructions as to the placing, visibility and clarity of any signs that are used to form contracts. It says:

    18.3 You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.

    I refute that there were clear and visible signs, with Terms that formed the basis of a contract and which met the specifications above.

    It should also be noted that an infraction of 18 minutesí falls under grace period rules and given the amount of traffic at the Corporation Street site, entry and exit times will be considered; citing section 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice:

    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

    Furthermore, planning permission for the Corporation Street site was granted on the basis that the landowner provides parking to patrons for 3 hours, with the facility to leave the site and use local amenities. This planning permission was granted in 1999 when the land was bought from Dutton Forshaw and no further amendments have been asked for or granted by Preston City Council.

    Your company is trying to extract money from people parking longer than 2 hours, when Preston City Council wanted this to be a 3 hour car park. Iím sure this will be of interest to local media, the council and Trading Standards, should this dialogue progress.

    I am also formally requesting a full copy of the contemporaneous, signed & dated (unredacted) contract with the landowner. A site agreement, or witness statement is not sufficient as these will not show sufficient detail (such as the restrictions, charges and revenue sharing arrangements agreed with any landholder). In order to comply with paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice, a non-landowner private parking company must have a specifically-worded contract with the landowner, otherwise there is no authority to offer contracts to park.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    In order to resolve the dispute, I attach copies of the driverís bank transactions that day as proof of patronage.

    Yours faithfully,
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 6:18 PM
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    pappa golf
    no , please use the appeal suggested in the newbies thread
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 15th Mar 17, 6:31 PM
    • 9,873 Posts
    • 8,852 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    no , please use the appeal suggested in the newbies thread
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    Why? This one looks far more targetted and to the point with the points that could be persuasive later on.

    As we know, any initial appeal is likely to be refused and a standard forum appeal will get a standard PPC rejection. This one should get a better response.

    However, I would take out the bank statement sentence as it identifies the driver.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 15th Mar 17, 6:56 PM
    • 38,906 Posts
    • 77,639 Thanks
    Fruitcake

    Furthermore, planning permission for the Corporation Street site was granted on the basis that the landowner provides parking to patrons for 3 hours, with the facility to leave the site and use local amenities. This planning permission was granted in 1999 when the land was bought from Dutton Forshaw and no further amendments have been asked for or granted by Preston City Council.

    Your company is trying to extract money from people parking longer than 2 hours, when Preston City Council wanted this to be a 3 hour car park. I’m sure this will be of interest to local media, the council and Trading Standards, should this dialogue progress.

    Yours faithfully,
    Originally posted by hmmmmm
    Change that to something like, "only approved planning permission on the strict understanding that patrons would be allowed up to three hours parking. Unilaterally reducing the parking period would therefore be a breach of the planning conditions both initially and currently in force."

    I wouldn't mess about by warning the scammers. I would remove "should this dialogue progress" and complain to the various bodies you have mentioned anyway, and ask the local press to highlight this breach of planning consent to warn other car park users and local resident and visitors.

    Ask the council to instruct the PPC to either immediately amend, cover up, or remove the signs until they have complied with the requirements of the local government.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 15-03-2017 at 7:03 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 7:04 PM
    • 6,804 Posts
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    pappa golf
    alas , Preston City Counsil did not exist when planning permission was granted , please get facts correct if you are going to quote them
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 7:40 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    Thank you all so much, I've made the amends and I'm about to send, you guys are awesome

    John
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 7:43 PM
    • 6,804 Posts
    • 6,760 Thanks
    pappa golf
    care parking will not have access to a docci that was published in 1999 , and I still think its aldi that has hired them , as the camera equipment is in a storeroom on aldi property
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 7:50 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    So should I send or not PG? Will it matter if Aldi has hired them or not?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 7:57 PM
    • 6,804 Posts
    • 6,760 Thanks
    pappa golf
    see post 27 , however I was shot down in flames

    NO MATTER WHAT you write in an appeal , they will decline it , keep your ammo dry for POPLA , the stats show that care DO win POPLa appeals , but they do not (as yet) do court

    me thinks Aldi would be very very unhappy if there name came up in court

    PS: that is the name of the location on the ticket? , is it "aldi" or what
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 8:20 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    It just says Corporation Street PG, what are the implications if this was just ignored as a whole?
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 15th Mar 17, 8:24 PM
    • 6,804 Posts
    • 6,760 Thanks
    pappa golf
    so this is NOT a Aldi thread?

    std appeal , let them produce there employee to POPLa

    Aldi will be *issed
    Have YOU had to walk 500 miles?
    Were you advised to walk 500 more?
    You could be entitled to compensation.
    Call the Pro Claimers NOW.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 8:30 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    Sorry PG for been naive, but what do you mean by let them produce their employee to Popla?

    Do you mean that Care Parking would have to mention Aldi to POPLA and Aldi wouldn't be too happy about that?

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Mar 17, 8:36 PM
    • 12,653 Posts
    • 19,438 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    When it gets to POPLA you will require Care to produce their contract with the landowner. A pound to a penny it won't be Aldi. Aldi contract with ParkingEye - Aldi is a red herring in this case.

    Send in the initial appeal template - whatever you send at this stage will not produce a cancellation. You get a POPLA code, then you get a cancellation (with help from the forum).
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • hmmmmm
    • By hmmmmm 15th Mar 17, 8:38 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    hmmmmm
    Also, just quickly, on the back of the PCN it says, "Contesting this Parking Charge - If you would like us to review this parking charge, within 28 days of this letter, write to: [ADDRESS]". I was told by Aldi to email them directly, would I be able to email? or would I need to send a physical letter?

    Thanks
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 15th Mar 17, 8:45 PM
    • 12,653 Posts
    • 19,438 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    You need to follow the eppeals process exactly as described by the PPC in their correspondence with you. Aldi is a red herring!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
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