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    • Sheep
    • By Sheep 14th Mar 17, 1:58 PM
    • 173Posts
    • 38Thanks
    Sheep
    What would you do in our situation?
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:58 PM
    What would you do in our situation? 14th Mar 17 at 1:58 PM
    I know everyone is different but I have a tricky situation and wondered what others would do if they were in our shoes. I know some may already have the back story from a previous post but here goes....

    So we moved into a lovely new build house in December 2015. The builder was a small local builder and there were planned to be 2 phased, 20 houses in each. We bought for £147,000 which seemed reasonable at the time. The problems then started with the estate. We have a large green area which the council put on the planning permission had to be turned into a green open space area. When we bought we were told that this area would be lovely for the home owners and have a bench in the middle etc. However so far this has not happened. Also the roads do not have the final layer of tarmac. I am told both the roads and the green area will not be completed until phase 2 has been sold.

    The thing is.... phase one isnt selling very well at the moment. The houses we bought are lovely with a garage and over looking fields. The houses on the other side have not sold at all because they over look other houses and they can see into your living room using the patio doors.

    The estate doesnt look nice although we are being told it will once finished. Now we are being told they are not going to build phase 2 for years yet due to the lack of demand and that they would prefer another builder to pick up up. What this means for the road and green area I have no idea. I dont think there is any agreement in place with the council regarding the roads.

    Now... my fixed rate is due to end in August and we can sell if we want to. The problem is we know we wont get our full 147000 due to lack of demand. Our house is loads nicer than the others as we were the first to buy. All other 6 houses paid 149999. The houses on the other side with no garage and poor view are up for 142999.

    Would you sell up? Knowing what we know and take a hit? Or would you fix for a couple of years, wait till phase 1 is all send and then sell?

    Thanks in advance
Page 2
    • Sheep
    • By Sheep 20th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    • 173 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Sheep
    For me I dont thinkit would make sense to sell right now. I have been thinking it over. The fact that there are still 4 homes left to sell would make mine more difficult to sell and I would have to significantly lower my price. If there are no further houses left to sell and the street was full then surely I can get a better price for mine of someone wants to live here.

    In terms of planning permission that is my next step. If the roads get finished the estate will look beautiful and Im confident of a good resale price. I just dont trust the builders to sell the remaining 4 and then never see them again
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 20th Mar 17, 1:42 PM
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    Cakeguts
    The builder's job is to build flats, houses, student accommodation etc. If he builds some houses somewhere in a not very desirable area and they take a long time to sell he isn't going to hang around waiting for them to sell he is going to continue building somewhere else that is his job. He also isn't going to finish road and green areas on a half finished estate. He will wait until the estate is finished otherwise the road could be come damaged by heavy machinery and the green areas could become churned up. For health and safety reasons he doesn't want children playing on green areas when there is heavy machinery moving around so he isn't going to create those play areas until the estate is finished.

    It is quite possible that the roads won't be adopted by the local authority until the estate is finished and that is when the road will get their top smooth surface.

    You bought a new house on a new estate. When you bought your house you knew that the estate wasn't finished. You also knew that you had bought a new house in an area that wasn't very desirable you would have been able to tell this by the price of your new house. The builder isn't in control of how many houses sell his job is only to build them. If the estate had been in a very desirable area it would have sold easily. The fact that it hasn't means that there are a limited number of people who want to live there or who can afford to buy the houses. What the planning permission said we don't know because we haven't seen it but health and safety means that you can't have children running about over a part built housing estate. If your children need to play somewhere they will need to use your back garden. Unless the green space is going to have children's play equipment on it, it isn't designed to be a play space for your children it will be an open space for anyone to use and they don't want to be disturbed by lots of children running round if they want to sit in peace on "the at the moment missing bench."

    The green space is just that it is a green space it isn't a play ground. If you have a back garden then your children play there. If the back garden isn't big enough you should have bought a house with a bigger garden or take the children to a local park where there is a children's play area. Lots of new estates have open green spaces they are not play grounds. The play areas have play equipment in them. The green spaces are for anyone to enjoy. The original plan of the estate that you looked at before you decided to buy your house will have the areas that will contain children's play equipment marked on them. These will not be installed until the whole estate is finished.
    Last edited by Cakeguts; 20-03-2017 at 1:45 PM.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 20th Mar 17, 2:51 PM
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    sheramber
    We bought an established house on an estate where the builder had gone bust and another builder took it over.

    The roads were adopted but the open space that was supposed to be landscaped and a children's play area had not happened.

    the second builder was nor interested.

    Our children had a great time playing on the overgrown 'playpark' there were bushes to hide in, dens were made under bushes ad trees. All the kids in the estate played there. We always knew where to find them.

    Dog owners used the area as well.

    Eventually, after many years the council took the space over and flattened it, landscaped it and planted some trees.

    No places for the kid to play and hide now and it was just a large open green space which held no attraction for the kids.
    • Sheep
    • By Sheep 20th Mar 17, 3:18 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Sheep
    The area is lovely. I dont know why you keep bringing the area up Cakeguts. The reason the houses were not selling is simple. The estate doesnt look desireable with the roads as they are.

    Twists keep coming daily for us. The builder replied to one of my previous emails this morning to say as they have sold more houses than expected over the last 3 months they may now consider building phase 2.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 20th Mar 17, 3:47 PM
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    Cakeguts
    The area is lovely. I dont know why you keep bringing the area up Cakeguts. The reason the houses were not selling is simple. The estate doesnt look desireable with the roads as they are.

    Twists keep coming daily for us. The builder replied to one of my previous emails this morning to say as they have sold more houses than expected over the last 3 months they may now consider building phase 2.
    Originally posted by Sheep
    This isn't the reason why the houses haven't sold. All building sites look like yours and the houses sell. If they can't sell the houses on your estate it isn't because of the state of the building it is because of the local area that the estate is in.
    • cashbackproblems
    • By cashbackproblems 20th Mar 17, 4:02 PM
    • 1,675 Posts
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    cashbackproblems
    I like how you refer to it as a "lovely home" but then you want to move house. Is what makes it lovely cheap ikea show room furniture or the property and surrounding area?


    Its a fact new builds depreciate immediately after purchase and there is always a premium you pay, plus with the phase 2 not selling buyers will see the same problem as you do. You can either wait and hope it gets finished over the next few years and the market picks up (but with brexit I doubt this will be the case until 5 yrs+) or sell for a small loss now before it drops even more in price.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 21st Mar 17, 1:42 AM
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    Crashy Time
    This isn't the reason why the houses haven't sold. All building sites look like yours and the houses sell. If they can't sell the houses on your estate it isn't because of the state of the building it is because of the local area that the estate is in.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts

    Probably more to do with economic/political situation IMO.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 21st Mar 17, 7:37 AM
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    AdrianC
    Probably more to do with economic/political situation IMO.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    So no new properties are selling, anywhere?
    Or there's some specifically local economic/political situation that's affecting this particular development?
    • scottishblondie
    • By scottishblondie 21st Mar 17, 10:22 AM
    • 1,950 Posts
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    scottishblondie
    If you like the house itself I would just stick it out. I bought the 2nd last house on my estate, although there was still a block of flats to be built. It was about 18 months - 2 years after I moved in that the "green" area and roads were fully finished. However, we were phase 2 and completed by a separate builder to phase 1.

    The older houses and flats were completed almost 5 years before my house so they didn't have a very good time of it. Although the roads were finished and adopted by the council after phase 1 was completed, they were looking at either a builder's yard or an old bus depot that was waiting to be torn down to build phase 2. People who sold on during this period took a big hit on the price.

    I would say I don't think that the current state of the roads or the communal space is the reason the houses aren't selling - what you've described is exactly what you would expect a new build estate to look like when it isn't finished. The remaining houses must be overpriced for what they are, or they would be selling.
    • Sheep
    • By Sheep 21st Mar 17, 8:02 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Sheep
    That sounds very similar to our situation. So who finished the road to phase 1? Was it builder 1 or builder 2?

    I know this is very vague but do you know how much of a hit they took when they resold their house from phase 1?

    The builder has made the estate a bit smarter and all of a sudden 4 houses sell within a week.

    Phase 2 is due to be on the grounds where an old car garage currently sits and it can be an eye sore. I think this is one of the reasons they were not selling. Metal fencing is now up and blocks the view.

    Another development is up for sale on the next street to ours and they are more expensive and same size. Difference is roads are already done and look smart. Also the turf on the estate has been laid and trees planted.

    The one thing I dont get.... if the builder is going to have to pay for the tarmac on the roads and pay for the green area then why wouldnt you pay for it whilst trying to sell the houses rather than selling the houses on an estate that doesnt look great to pay for it after?
    • scottishblondie
    • By scottishblondie 22nd Mar 17, 9:36 AM
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    scottishblondie
    The road to phase 1 was finished by the phase 1 builder. The properties were very popular, and the builder didn't have any trouble selling them despite the large derelict building taking up the rest of the site. There was then a long-running dispute over the number and design of the properties to be built in phase 2, as the residents of the surrounding original houses were not pleased about a proposed block of flats and apparently some part of the derelict building was of historical interest.

    Having read the planning correspondence I felt really sorry for the phase 1 residents who were looking directly onto this building. They had bought with the impression that phase 2 would begin almost immediately but it ended up being 5 years!! Soon after that was resolved the builder sold on their entire Scottish operation to another firm who were able to demolish the eyesore and begin work.

    From looking at the sold prices for the phase 1 properties, it looks like they took a hit of ~20% on their original purchase price. Of course, they were bought new in 2006 or 2007 and sold on in the following years so some of the decline would be due to the market changes. I purchased my house in 2012 for about 85% of the price of the phase 1 houses (the same layout, although a different external finish). I did consider purchasing an older one as it would have been slightly cheaper, but then I wouldn't have been able to choose the kitchen etc.

    As to why the builder hasn't tidied the place up, there could be a number of reasons. Maybe he hasn't got the cashflow to do it until more of the houses are sold? Or it could be he is worried about construction traffic damaging the road surface and having to pay twice? In our case phase 2 construction traffic only needed to go over a small part of the finished road, which was re-done when everything was finished. Our solicitor also ensured that there was a timetable and money in place for the road to be finished and adopted - I'm surprised yours didn't do the same.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 22nd Mar 17, 11:20 AM
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    Cakeguts
    That sounds very similar to our situation. So who finished the road to phase 1? Was it builder 1 or builder 2?

    I know this is very vague but do you know how much of a hit they took when they resold their house from phase 1?

    The builder has made the estate a bit smarter and all of a sudden 4 houses sell within a week.

    Phase 2 is due to be on the grounds where an old car garage currently sits and it can be an eye sore. I think this is one of the reasons they were not selling. Metal fencing is now up and blocks the view.

    Another development is up for sale on the next street to ours and they are more expensive and same size. Difference is roads are already done and look smart. Also the turf on the estate has been laid and trees planted.

    The one thing I dont get.... if the builder is going to have to pay for the tarmac on the roads and pay for the green area then why wouldnt you pay for it whilst trying to sell the houses rather than selling the houses on an estate that doesnt look great to pay for it after?
    Originally posted by Sheep
    So you house is in an old industrial area? What other industries are still there? The kind of houses that sell quickly are one built on the edge of an established residential area where there are nice houses that sell for a lot of money. The ones that are difficult to sell are the ones that are built in areas that used to have old garages and warehouses and other industrial uses because local people who are the ones who are mainly going to buy cheap houses in this kind of area do know what used to be there and if the area was considered to be not that nice the houses will be more difficult to sell.

    The builder on the next street has realised that the area that these houses are in makes them difficult to sell so they can do two things. They can lower the price or build bigger houses that are priced cheaply for what they are and they can make the estate look nice or they can wait and hope that prices improve.

    It they have decided to wait they won't bother doing all the roads nicely until they have finished phase 2.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 22nd Mar 17, 1:49 PM
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    Crashy Time
    So no new properties are selling, anywhere?
    Or there's some specifically local economic/political situation that's affecting this particular development?
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    The economic/political backdrop affects the sentiment of potential buyers and lenders, and can`t be discounted so easily.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd Mar 17, 2:16 PM
    • 14,710 Posts
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    AdrianC
    The economic/political backdrop affects the sentiment of potential buyers and lenders, and can`t be discounted so easily.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Well, that said absolutely nothing, didn't it?

    You missed my point completely, probably because it was a fairly awkward one for your "logic". So let me be a bit less subtle...

    If the national economic/political backdrop is causing the lack of sales, then that would apply to all new builds all over the country, right?
    Or maybe it's a purely local effect, caused by some local wrinkle? If so, then... well... as far as I can see, we don't even know where in the country the OP's talking about. Do we?
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 22nd Mar 17, 2:39 PM
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    • 4,697 Thanks
    teddysmum


    The green space is just that it is a green space it isn't a play ground. If you have a back garden then your children play there. If the back garden isn't big enough you should have bought a house with a bigger garden or take the children to a local park where there is a children's play area. Lots of new estates have open green spaces they are not play grounds. The play areas have play equipment in them. The green spaces are for anyone to enjoy. The original plan of the estate that you looked at before you decided to buy your house will have the areas that will contain children's play equipment marked on them. These will not be installed until the whole estate is finished.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts


    I was just about to add that a grassed area does not mean a playground. Our estate, though the gardens are large and there are grassed verges up the central drive, as two large areas of greenery.


    One has lots of trees,is an open space encircled by houses and has a number of signs saying that it is not a playground or that ball games are prohibited. The other is to the side, is just maintained grass surrounded by back garden fences and the outer boundaries of some allotments. This has a bar gate to keep out traffic (except the mowing machine ) and is designated for play.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 22nd Mar 17, 2:49 PM
    • 4,397 Posts
    • 2,025 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    Well, that said absolutely nothing, didn't it?

    You missed my point completely, probably because it was a fairly awkward one for your "logic". So let me be a bit less subtle...

    If the national economic/political backdrop is causing the lack of sales, then that would apply to all new builds all over the country, right?
    Or maybe it's a purely local effect, caused by some local wrinkle? If so, then... well... as far as I can see, we don't even know where in the country the OP's talking about. Do we?
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Sentiment doesn`t apply all over the country in an equal measured dose to correlate house price drops exactly, in the same way that loose cheap credit doesn`t cause sentiment to create price bubbles in exactly the same way, but as I said the effect on sentiment of Brexit in particular can`t be ignored. "Sentiment" isn`t an exact science.
    • sparky130a
    • By sparky130a 22nd Mar 17, 3:05 PM
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    sparky130a
    "Sentiment" isn`t an exact science.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Bull5hit is though...
    • Wookey
    • By Wookey 22nd Mar 17, 4:01 PM
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    • 332 Thanks
    Wookey
    As new estates fill up prices do tend to rise within them, they may also rise a bit on completion, house building is like every other manufacturing process it has up's and downs when it comes to demand. Sitting tight is the best thing to do probably from a monetary pov, if however it's having an affect on your families health then and only then consider selling up.
    Norn Iron Club member No 353
    • Sheep
    • By Sheep 22nd Mar 17, 4:09 PM
    • 173 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    Sheep
    We have decided to stay put. The fact that the houses are selling again now makes me think we may not have to wait too long for phase 2 to be built and the roads finished.

    The house is lovely and we love the area. Its so quiet and the neighbours are great. The only thing bothering me was the lack of trust in the builder to finish the roads before completing a vanishing act.

    I do have a question though and would love your thoughts. We are in a row of 3 and the 2 other houses on my row have just sold last weekend for the full price. I am in the middle of remortgaging as we are now staying put and I have put the valuation down as the same amount as the others have just sold for. I know new builds come with an added premium however would they really value a house any lower that 2 identical houses next store have just sold for?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd Mar 17, 4:12 PM
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    AdrianC
    Sentiment doesn`t apply all over the country in an equal measured dose to correlate house price drops exactly, in the same way that loose cheap credit doesn`t cause sentiment to create price bubbles in exactly the same way, but as I said the effect on sentiment of Brexit in particular can`t be ignored. "Sentiment" isn`t an exact science.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Billy S had you sussed, didn't he?
    ...it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.
    by Macbeth
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