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  • FIRST POST
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 8Thanks
    AndreasA
    Parking Eye Appeal Rejected - Charged £100 for 16 minutes.
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    Parking Eye Appeal Rejected - Charged £100 for 16 minutes. 14th Mar 17 at 12:39 PM
    Hi there,

    I've read quite a bit of topics on this, and followed the MSE guide to appealing directly to the private parking company, which I did.
    Today I have just received an email with my appeal rejected, the summary of which is:
    "Our records confirm that no parking was purchased on the date of the parking event, despite there being payment methods available on the day in question."

    I don't currently have a copy of the letter I sent (at work and quite distressed), but this is the situation:

    I had family in town, and they were staying at a hotel in Leeds and I've agreed to meet up with them, so I'm on Parkopedia to find areas near the hotel where I can park. After finding one, I go there, and drive in. There are tons of available parking spaces. Unfortunately, this particular site takes cash only, and I haven't got any. I call the family just to see how they are getting along, and they are just finishing breakfast at the hotel, so I loiter around in the car for a little bit searching for another place to park on Parkopedia. After this, I drive out again and park and pay at this other location and meet up with the family, job done.

    Except I then get charged £100 for having parked and not payed for 16 MINUTES.
    I was completely taken aback that they would even charge for such a small amount of time. Note that I was sat in the car in the entire time, with the engine switched on but not running.
    If there had been an actual parking attendant walking around, in hindsight maybe he would just have asked me to leave, and I could have done just that. This just seems outrageous.

    Have I got any rights here? Like I said I appealed directly to ParkingEye first, but this was rejected. They have provided me with a POPLA reference number, so I'm wondering if this is worth escalating? If so, how do I go about this next step?

    Alternatively, should I just suck it up and pay the charge?

    I am absolutely furious, but I don't know if I should be furious with myself, ParkingEye or both..

    Hope there are someone who can help me as soon as possible so I can get this sorted and stop worrying.

    Kind regards,
    Andreas A.
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    • 38,558 Posts
    • 77,029 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    Hi there,

    I've read quite a bit of topics on this, and followed the MSE guide to appealing directly to the private parking company, which I did.
    Today I have just received an email with my appeal rejected, the summary of which is:
    "Our records confirm that no parking was purchased on the date of the parking event, despite there being payment methods available on the day in question."

    I don't currently have a copy of the letter I sent (at work and quite distressed), but this is the situation:

    I had family in town, and they were staying at a hotel in Leeds and I've agreed to meet up with them, so I'm on Parkopedia to find areas near the hotel where I can park. After finding one, I go there, and drive in. There are tons of available parking spaces. Unfortunately, this particular site takes cash only, and I haven't got any. I call the family just to see how they are getting along, and they are just finishing breakfast at the hotel, so I loiter around in the car for a little bit searching for another place to park on Parkopedia. After this, I drive out again and park and pay at this other location and meet up with the family, job done.

    Except I then get charged £100 for having parked and not payed for 16 MINUTES.
    I was completely taken aback that they would even charge for such a small amount of time. Note that I was sat in the car in the entire time, with the engine switched on but not running.
    If there had been an actual parking attendant walking around, in hindsight maybe he would just have asked me to leave, and I could have done just that. This just seems outrageous.

    Have I got any rights here? Like I said I appealed directly to ParkingEye first, but this was rejected. They have provided me with a POPLA reference number, so I'm wondering if this is worth escalating? If so, how do I go about this next step?

    Alternatively, should I just suck it up and pay the charge?

    I am absolutely furious, but I don't know if I should be furious with myself, ParkingEye or both..

    Hope there are someone who can help me as soon as possible so I can get this sorted and stop worrying.

    Kind regards,
    Andreas A.
    Originally posted by AndreasA
    That's called parking. I'm not sure why you wouldn't leave immediately if you couldn't pay for parking.

    Did you reveal the driver's identity when you appealed, because you have done so in your post here? If you didn't reveal the driver's identity then you need to amend your post immediately and only refer to The Driver and The Keeper who are two different people as far as anyone is concerned.
    Basically, what did you put in your appeal. Did you use the one from the NEWBIES thread that doesn't give away the driver's identity, or did you use something else?

    You should then construct your PoPLA appeal based on all the template appeal points available in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread. What points you can use will depend on what you put in you initial appeal.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Mar 17, 1:18 PM
    • 6,298 Posts
    • 5,123 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:18 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:18 PM
    This is not something to worry about, it is an unsolicited invoice for an alleged breach of contract, which can be appealed against.


    If you do not want to pay then you will have to put in several hours reading how to avoid doing so. Righteous indignation will butter no parsnips.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 1:22 PM
    I have unfortunately raised the same points I did here, so I will be identified as the driver by now I imagine.. What does this mean for my case?
    I also raised these points in my appeal (with the driver being identified..):

    - Signs on entry weren't clear (from the point the the driver came from).
    - The charge for 1 hour was £3, and this felt incomparable to the £100 the driver was charged.
    - The vehicle wasn't parked. Although I guess this is up to interpretation if the driver is in the car the entire time, engine on, that to me doesn't sound like parking?)
    - The driver receives a phone call and cannot pull over, so pulls into the parking area to take said phone call.
    • Elysander
    • By Elysander 14th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    Elysander
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    Would this be the Aire Street car park by any chance?
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 2:08 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:08 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:08 PM
    That's the one.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 14th Mar 17, 2:17 PM
    • 9,866 Posts
    • 8,832 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:17 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:17 PM
    Regardless of what advice and help that may be offered, I just want to clear something up for you.

    You parked. There was a charge for parking. You didn't pay.

    There is a certain grace period for checking whether or not you want to park. You did check and decided not to. You should have left then, but didn't and, therefore, used "the service" for a period of time.

    You now know the consequences of falling foul of the Private Parking Industry where the penalties are pretty swingeing. We try to help people get off but your "suicide note" to the PPC has made it very difficult.

    How would courts react? Toss a coin as some judges see things one way and others another. Just hope you don't get this one https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3025601/train-passenger-fined-615-for-four-minute-journey/
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 2:18 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:18 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:18 PM
    I feared as much.
    Should I just give in and pay this? Sounds like my chances here are pretty slim....
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 14th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    • 9,866 Posts
    • 8,832 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    i was helped by a hacker on email cracklogins@gmail.com to check if my girl friend was cheating ,they assisted me to hack her email and facebook where hacked in about 30minutes only so faster than any other person , i was indeed pleased , so you can check them out , i think they would be able to help you

    here is their email too cracklogins@gmail.com
    Originally posted by cracklogins

    Reported as SPAM
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 14th Mar 17, 2:42 PM
    • 633 Posts
    • 952 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    There are cases where it has been held, and it's also in the Code of Practice of BPA/IPC (whichever one your parking co is a member of), that the whole point of the signs is that the driver is being offered a contract, and he must be given the opportunity to read the offer (ie the signage) and decide if he wants to accept the terms. This is referred to as a "grace period" (grace periods also apply in giving drivers enough time to leave after the end of the parking period). I don't know about the IPC CoP but the BPA one says there should be a grace period but doesn't define what that is (para 13.1/2). The grace period for leaving after parking is 10 minutes, but the grace period for having a think about whether or not you want to accept the terms offered is undefined. The CoP leaves this to the PPC's discretion.


    16 minutes is a bit long. However, it is arguable that in a busy city centre, it is reasonable for the grace period to be a little longer.


    Your case would be that no contract was formed. You stopped temporarily to consider the terms and once you realised what they were (cash only) you decided not to accept them and that you would park elsewhere. You then looked online to find somewhere else to park and left. All in all this took 16 minutes.


    So you would say that you had rejected the terms and there cannot have been any contract - you had seen and thought about the terms and decided not to accept them.


    On the other hand, you stopped and availed yourself of the parking facility, even if only for a few minutes, so the PPC will say that you were aware of the terms and had accepted them for those 16 minutes.


    This could go either way. I think that you could win. But in every court and every case there is a "litigation risk" that you will lose. Many people fight anyway, because your worst case is you end up having to pay just the charge, with a very small amount of interest, and the court fees (£50). So you haven't got much to lose by trying. But you must go into this with your eyes open and understand that ParkingEye are quite litigious and are not likely to settle.


    There is a case which defines "parking" and may also help you - it might be the Jopson case, but I'm not sure. You might be able to argue that you didn't "park".


    I'm not trying to put you off, just pointing out the risks.


    I personally don't think it's the end of the world that you've identified yourself as the driver. I think that in many cases it is obvious that the keeper was also the driver, and denying it just annoys the judge and puts him in favour of the PPC, and then you start off on the back foot. Where you have a genuine defence as driver I think in some cases you are better just admitting that you were.
    • Elysander
    • By Elysander 14th Mar 17, 2:42 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    Elysander
    Presumably Parking Eye have provided a POPLA code in their rejection letter?

    Parking Eye have previously lost several times at POPLA by providing a messy, redacted document which they claim gives them authority to issue pcn's at this site. POPLA assessors haven't been able to determine if this is the case as the document is illegible in parts.

    The OP in the thread below reported a win against PE last month for this car park. Unfortunately the poster hasn't come back with details of the decision. Would be very interesting to see if the redacted contract was the winning point.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5575388&highlight=aire+street
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 3:25 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    I was provided with a POPLA reference number yes.
    How long can this in theory drag out if I put this forward to POPLA ?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Mar 17, 4:09 PM
    • 38,558 Posts
    • 77,029 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I was provided with a POPLA reference number yes.
    How long can this in theory drag out if I put this forward to POPLA ?
    Originally posted by AndreasA
    Six years in England and Wales. That's how long the PPC has to start court. Your best bet is to make a PoPLA appeal using the template appeal points in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread. Use all the ones that are applicable and post your draft here before you submit it.

    Don't miss the PoPLA appeal deadline.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Mar 17, 4:15 PM
    • 38,558 Posts
    • 77,029 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I have unfortunately raised the same points I did here, so I will be identified as the driver by now I imagine.. What does this mean for my case?
    I also raised these points in my appeal (with the driver being identified..):

    - Signs on entry weren't clear (from the point the the driver came from).
    - The charge for 1 hour was £3, and this felt incomparable to the £100 the driver was charged.
    - The vehicle wasn't parked. Although I guess this is up to interpretation if the driver is in the car the entire time, engine on, that to me doesn't sound like parking?)
    - The driver receives a phone call and cannot pull over, so pulls into the parking area to take said phone call.
    Originally posted by AndreasA
    Inadequate signage might win. Other appeal points are available.
    Admitting that you were the driver means you cannot use the protection of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012.

    You WERE parked. I don't know why you think you weren't. It matters not whether the car was occupied or not, whether the engine was running or not. The vehicle was square wheeled for a significant period of time, not driving round looking for a space, therefore it was parked.

    You said in your first post that you initiated the 'phone call, not received one. You need to be consistent and truthful if you want to beat this.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-03-2017 at 4:18 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 4:21 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    Thank you for all your replies so far.
    I'm debating whether or not to fight this. I've been offered an additional 14 days after they declined my appeal, to pay the reduced amount. It sounds like I was in the wrong after all, and I have no one to blame but myself.. Lesson learned for future.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Mar 17, 4:26 PM
    • 38,558 Posts
    • 77,029 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Thank you for all your replies so far.
    I'm debating whether or not to fight this. I've been offered an additional 14 days after they declined my appeal, to pay the reduced amount. It sounds like I was in the wrong after all, and I have no one to blame but myself.. Lesson learned for future.
    Originally posted by AndreasA
    Nobody here will suggest you should pay.

    Pics of the signage would help us to determine if the "inadequate signage" point has legs. Most parking lie signs have one flaw or another. It only takes one to be a winning point.
    Plus, other points are available. Have you looked at them yet?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 4:37 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    Here are the pictures:
    imgur.com/a/jk1Kc

    Also, you mention 'other points'? Which do you mean?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Mar 17, 4:42 PM
    • 38,558 Posts
    • 77,029 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Here are the pictures:
    imgur.com/a/jk1Kc

    Also, you mention 'other points'? Which do you mean?
    Originally posted by AndreasA
    http://imgur.com/a/jk1Kc

    It doesn't tell you what the ANPR data will be used for. That is a BPA CoP breach.

    It also tells you that you can pay by 'phone, but you said in your original post that payment is cash only. Again you are not being consistent. If I can pick holes in your comments, so will a PoPLA assessor.

    I refer you back to my comments in post 2 of this thread where I told you to look for template appeal points.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-03-2017 at 4:45 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 4:49 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    It doesn't tell you what the ANPR data will be used for. That is a BPA CoP breach.

    It also tells you that you can pay by 'phone, but you said in your original post that payment is cash only. Again you are not being consistent. If I can pick holes in your comments, so will a PoPLA assessor.

    I refer you back to my comments in post 2 of this thread where I told you to look for template appeal points.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    I actually only just noticed that now myself. I've paid by phone at other locations before, but there is usually a sticker on the side of the actual payment machine, I don't recall this being the case, so I must have dismissed it as not being an option. I'm not a clever man..
    • AndreasA
    • By AndreasA 14th Mar 17, 10:03 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    AndreasA
    It doesn't tell you what the ANPR data will be used for. That is a BPA CoP breach.
    Originally posted by Fruitcake
    Could this alone win me this case?
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