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    • tizzle6560
    • By tizzle6560 14th Mar 17, 11:19 AM
    • 278Posts
    • 51Thanks
    tizzle6560
    One bed occupancy/ tenancy laws
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:19 AM
    One bed occupancy/ tenancy laws 14th Mar 17 at 11:19 AM
    Just wanting some clarification on this really - Can a flat be marketed as a 1 bed only, but be rented out to a couple with a young child with a second bed in the living room?

    And what obligations does the estate agent (who manages the property on behalf of the owner) have to ensure that it is not over occupied etc?

    Thanks
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    • 1,664 Posts
    • 2,024 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    Agent is acting for the landlord because the landlord pays them. So I would guess that the agent told the landlord about the tenant before the flat was let. The landlord gets to decide which tenants get their property. If this isn't the case then the landlord needs a better agent.

    Assuming that the landlord knows that the one bed flat has these tenants living in it then the agent just follows the landlord's instructions regarding number of occupants. If the landlord doesn't know and finds out doesn't like the number of occupants they can issue a section 21 notice and change agents.
    • tizzle6560
    • By tizzle6560 14th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    • 278 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    tizzle6560
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    Agent is acting for the landlord because the landlord pays them. So I would guess that the agent told the landlord about the tenant before the flat was let. The landlord gets to decide which tenants get their property. If this isn't the case then the landlord needs a better agent.

    Assuming that the landlord knows that the one bed flat has these tenants living in it then the agent just follows the landlord's instructions regarding number of occupants. If the landlord doesn't know and finds out doesn't like the number of occupants they can issue a section 21 notice and change agents.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Thanks. E.A acts on behalf of LL yes. My question still stands though - can an E.A/ LL legally rent out their 1 bed flat to a family of 3?
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 9,642 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    Thanks. E.A acts on behalf of LL yes. My question still stands though - can an E.A/ LL legally rent out their 1 bed flat to a family of 3?
    Originally posted by tizzle6560
    Which law do you think is being broken by letting a one bedroom property to a couple with a young child?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 14th Mar 17, 11:44 AM
    • 3,211 Posts
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    Out, Vile Jelly
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:44 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:44 AM
    Thanks. E.A acts on behalf of LL yes. My question still stands though - can an E.A/ LL legally rent out their 1 bed flat to a family of 3?
    Originally posted by tizzle6560
    What law do you think they would be breaking?

    Edit: Pixie beat me to it as I retyped my initial response to make it more polite.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 14th Mar 17, 11:45 AM
    • 34,773 Posts
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    silvercar
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:45 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:45 AM
    Yes they can if they wish, but they may choose not to due to extra wear and tear by having 3 occupiers.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 14th Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    • 57,565 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    There are many laws, but none cover specifically what you're looking for.

    I can choose to rent one room and squeeze a family of 12 into it. There's no specific law against that.

    There are other laws that might come into play - and other guidelines.

    e.g. The Council's guideline would say that's overcrowded, but they'd not scoop everybody up and house them, they'd just get more points.

    e.g. In an HMO the whole building might have an occupancy level allowed - ditto with B&B/hotels, those laws will come from the planning permission/licenses required to run a building like that.

    e.g. Private landlords might CHOOSE to limit occupancy and reject applications based on that, or even issue a "no fault" Section 21 if they don't like what's going on... or they might just allow it.

    So, in short, there's no law against your family of 3 in a 1-bed place at all.
    • Heather2603
    • By Heather2603 14th Mar 17, 11:53 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Heather2603
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:53 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:53 AM
    Are you getting confused with council overcrowding guidelines? Or HMOs? I don't think it's a huge dela for a couple and their child to live in a 1 bed flat.
    • lika_86
    • By lika_86 14th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • 1,023 Posts
    • 3,814 Thanks
    lika_86
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:54 AM
    Of course there's no law, otherwise landlords would find themselves evicting couple tenants who get pregnant and have a baby whilst in a one bedroom flat, which would be a nonsense.
    • tizzle6560
    • By tizzle6560 14th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • 278 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    tizzle6560
    Sorry I should clarify the situation better - the flat was rented to a single female who was using housing benefits to pay for it. An unrelated male (boyfriend) and his son then subsequently moved in permanently.

    Still all kosher?
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 14th Mar 17, 12:10 PM
    • 4,736 Posts
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    davidmcn
    Can't remember the relevant legislation but it doesn't distinguish between living rooms and bedrooms, so (assuming the rooms aren't too small) no overcrowding for a couple + 1 child.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Mar 17, 12:13 PM
    • 9,642 Posts
    • 13,091 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Sorry I should clarify the situation better - the flat was rented to a single female who was using housing benefits to pay for it. An unrelated male (boyfriend) and his son then subsequently moved in permanently.

    Still all kosher?
    Originally posted by tizzle6560
    Why wouldn't it be?

    Who are you in this scenario? Does the scenario even have anything to do with you?
    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 14th Mar 17, 12:18 PM
    • 14,791 Posts
    • 19,943 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Just wanting some clarification on this really - Can a flat be marketed as a 1 bed only, but be rented out to a couple with a young child with a second bed in the living room?

    And what obligations does the estate agent (who manages the property on behalf of the owner) have to ensure that it is not over occupied etc?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by tizzle6560
    I don't see this as over occupied.

    The living room is a room, and if their bed is in it, then it is no different to a bedsit. The child then gets the bedroom.

    So many families live like this and it is perfectly acceptable and certainly not over crowding. Quite sensible if thry are trying to save money.

    I would be more curious if the benefits people know that the boyfriend lives there...
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • Heather2603
    • By Heather2603 14th Mar 17, 12:29 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Heather2603
    So is this really about the housing benefit? People meet, enter relationships, move in together, sometimes one or both of them have children. Still not seeing your issue or why you care?
    • starshapedbrick
    • By starshapedbrick 14th Mar 17, 1:56 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    starshapedbrick
    Overcrowding is usually used in the context of social housing (council or housing association). A Registered Social Landlord would take into account occupancy at the point of letting the property. Changes to the occupancy/family composition after that happen. From the scenario you describe, this is 1) a private landlord and 2) was let to a single person who has now been joined by partner and child. Unless there are specific provisions in the tenancy agreement then this is fine.

    Housing Benefit has no bearing on this whatsoever. The eligibility rules are strict but they are intended to ensure that you don't have more space than you need, not less.
    • Out, Vile Jelly
    • By Out, Vile Jelly 14th Mar 17, 2:00 PM
    • 3,211 Posts
    • 10,391 Thanks
    Out, Vile Jelly
    Perhaps this enterprising couple are scrimping on space while they save up for a deposit on a larger place away from their nosy neighbours.
    They are an EYESORES!!!!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Mar 17, 2:26 PM
    • 38,420 Posts
    • 43,505 Thanks
    G_M
    More relevant than your question is the possibility of benefit fraud.

    The claimant is now in a relationship and (may) have another income coming in to the household.

    The tenancy is not the issue.
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