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  • FIRST POST
    • Dazza744
    • By Dazza744 14th Mar 17, 3:10 AM
    • 5Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Dazza744
    Inheritance Problem
    • #1
    • 14th Mar 17, 3:10 AM
    Inheritance Problem 14th Mar 17 at 3:10 AM
    Hi,I have lived in the family home with mam and dad for 46 years,caring for both full-time until both passed away mam 5 years ago,dad in June. No wills were made so me and sister got 50% of the estate. Sister left home 32 years ago at 18. Now sister wants either the market value of her half of the house or for us to sell-up of which she has already had estate agents around and is going to list it. I've offered her various sums of money but she won't take a penny less than the market value. Any ideas on what I could do apart from drag my heels ,which I'm naturally going to do!
    Last edited by Dazza744; 14-03-2017 at 3:13 AM. Reason: Missed a paragraph off
Page 2
    • Winter Phoenix
    • By Winter Phoenix 14th Mar 17, 9:24 AM
    • 232 Posts
    • 1,288 Thanks
    Winter Phoenix
    You're in a very tough situation - recently bereaved, having to start a new job after ten years out of the workplace, a sister who isn't open to any kind of negotiation, and now possibly losing your home. You have my sympathy.

    Could any of your aunts or uncles lend you the additional money you need to pay off your sister? You could then take in a lodger to repay the loan.

    Could you take on additional work to increase your income? Do you have things which could be sold to raise the money?

    Gently remind your sister of the additional expenses of selling to a stranger, such as estate agents fees - every little helps.

    Good luck. I hope it works out for you.
    e cineribus resurgam
    ("From the ashes I shall arise.")
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Mar 17, 9:56 AM
    • 28,400 Posts
    • 16,979 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Would be doubtful to get a mortgage after being carer for over 10 years and now only back in full-time employment,had wanted to keep the house on for memories and sentiments but these count for nothing. House was mortgage free for over 20 years. Assets included was a car worth at the time around £10000 which my sister got and I asked for £4000 as she was obviously next of kin.

    Time for me to move on and sell up I guess,lesson learnt.
    Originally posted by Dazza744
    next of kin is meaningless you have equal stake in everything


    what sort of numbers are you looking at for a mortgage?

    amount needed, income
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 14th Mar 17, 10:46 AM
    • 882 Posts
    • 768 Thanks
    gingercordial
    Would be doubtful to get a mortgage after being carer for over 10 years and now only back in full-time employment,had wanted to keep the house on for memories and sentiments but these count for nothing. House was mortgage free for over 20 years. Assets included was a car worth at the time around £10000 which my sister got and I asked for £4000 as she was obviously next of kin.

    Time for me to move on and sell up I guess,lesson learnt.
    Originally posted by Dazza744
    To start with, sorry for the loss of your parents.

    I agree with the others that your sister is being perfectly reasonable in asking for her equal share. If your parents wanted to "repay" you for caring for them, sadly they neglected to do anything about this in a will. So as it stands 50/50 is the way to go and it isn't fair on her for you to pay her less whilst you keep living rent-free. I don't think you mean to be greedy but that's how it could come across to others, yet you accuse her of that for only wanting her fair and equal share.

    However she may have to wait for it whilst you sort out the necessary financing. You should not drag your feet on this but you can find out the timescale required and keep her updated on this. Communication will be key as if she sees you actively taking steps to resolve it (apply for a mortgage, or putting it on the market) she will be less worried than if you go quiet.

    When did you start your new job and are you out of any probation (trial) period?

    If you're in a probation period then you probably need to wait until that is finished before you apply for a mortgage. However that isn't usually more than a couple of months. Speak to a broker.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • 39,218 Posts
    • 44,562 Thanks
    G_M
    There seem to be various aspects to this.

    1) The Estate.
    It sounds as if this may not have been properly wound up. Was it?
    * who are/were the Administrators (in place of Executers as there was no will)?
    * Has Probate been granted (this is always needed where there is a property involved)? What date?
    * Whose name(s) is the property now registered in? Your parents? Mum? Yours? Sisters?
    * If Inheritance Tax was due on the total Estate (not just the property), has it been paid?

    2) the property.
    Who is managing it? Paying running costs? Paying maintenance?

    3) Rent.
    How much rent are you paying your sister for living in a property that she half owns? Is the rent half the market rental value? Are you paying tax on this income? Or are you just living for free in a property you only half own.......?

    4) Fair Shares.
    You are being greedy. Why should your sister accept less than half the value? If anything, she should get more than half (see 3 above)

    5) The family
    What uncles and aunts think/say is irrelevant. The property is owned 50/50 by you and your sister.

    6) the solutions. Options:

    a) start paying her rent (and declare it to HMRC)
    b) pay her half the market value for her share
    c) sell the property and split the proceeds 50/50

    Anything else is unfair on your sister, and could result in court action if she wanted to force a sale - which would cost YOU a lot in court fees in the end.
    Last edited by G_M; 14-03-2017 at 11:14 AM.
    • steeeb
    • By steeeb 14th Mar 17, 11:15 AM
    • 357 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    steeeb
    With the revelation about the car (worth ~10k) and you having 4k for it - and mentioning everything in the house. It sounds as if this should all have been dealt with in probate?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 14th Mar 17, 11:15 AM
    • 12,304 Posts
    • 33,504 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    Have to disagree with point 3 G_M.

    OP has probably had free or cheap rent for the time they've been a carer - but, on the other hand, they have been a carer and the sister hasnt.

    So - just call it "even stevens" and split the equity 50/50 as per the parents will is imo the way to go on this.

    The only quibble I would see to this is it sounds like sister took 60% of the value of the car (ie 10% more than she should have had) and I am concerned that she has been unfair on that.
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 14-03-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    ******************
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Mar 17, 11:51 AM
    • 2,279 Posts
    • 2,876 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Have to disagree with point 3 G_M.

    OP has probably had free or cheap rent for the time they've been a carer - but, on the other hand, they have been a carer and the sister hasnt.

    So - just call it "even stevens" and split the equity 50/50 as per the parents will is imo the way to go on this.

    The only quibble I would see to this is it sounds like sister took 60% of the value of the car (ie 10% more than she should have had) and I am concerned that she has been unfair on that.
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    Carer yes but for how long? It doesn't sound as if the OP was responsible for paying the mortgage on the house so that means that at least one of the parents worked at some time. If this was the case then there was no reason why either of the children needed to continue to live at home with the parents. They could both have left at age 18?

    Most parents would not want to favour one child over another and it seems as if other family members have been trying to influence the situation.

    There is nothing to stop the OP from putting the house on the market and buying their own home at the age of 46 with half the proceeds of the sale.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 14th Mar 17, 12:06 PM
    • 5,456 Posts
    • 7,135 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    OP, as others have said, your sister is entitled to her share of the house and other assets, she isn't being greedy. (Also, do bear in mind that people grieve differently, it may be that, quite apart from anything else, part of her grieving process is about trying to sort these issues out so that she can move on)

    As others have said, it would make sense for you to talk to an independent mortgage broker. It may well be that you would be able to get a mortgage for 50% of the property value so that you can buy out your sister. If they say you need to have ben employed for a little longer then you coul then go backto your sister with a proposal to market the property but on the basis taht you will buiy her out if you can get a mortgage offer before a diferent buyer makes an offer.

    In the alternative, you could see whether she would be willin to gree to you paying her 50% of market rent for the next few months with an greement that the property ill be sold if you are not in a position to buy her out within x months.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 14th Mar 17, 12:19 PM
    • 21,291 Posts
    • 12,223 Thanks
    xylophone
    Any ideas on what I could do apart from drag my heels ,which I'm naturally going to do!
    Unwise for all sorts of reasons as set out in previous posts.

    It is not unreasonable for your sister to want to realise her asset, the 50% share in the house.

    Contact a mortgage broker in the first instance to check your prospects.

    You appear to have savings - it could very well be that you can pay your sister her dues with a combination of these and a mortgage.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 14th Mar 17, 12:28 PM
    • 14,896 Posts
    • 20,190 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    I sympathise with your situation, but can see this from your sister's point of view.

    If your parents wanted you to have the lions share, they had ample opportunity to write a will. Clearly they did not want this.

    The house has sentimental value to you, but not to your sister.

    Agree to the sale, then look at getting a mortgage to buy yourself something smaller, and move on with your life.

    Well done for getting a full time job after 10 years being a carer!

    Ps - I might do some grovelling to your sister...
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 14th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
    • 7,468 Posts
    • 4,393 Thanks
    teddysmum
    You could point out to your sister that if the house was sold, she would not get half the 'market value' (meaning what the estate agents quoted) because 1) estate agents tend to give high quotes, hoping to real you in and knowing people will probably want to haggle so set a price to allow for this 2) estate agent, solicitor and other fees would be deducted from proceeds.


    On these grounds something less than half would be a fairer price.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Mar 17, 2:53 PM
    • 39,218 Posts
    • 44,562 Thanks
    G_M
    You could point out to your sister that if the house was sold, she would not get half the 'market value' (meaning what the estate agents quoted) because 1) estate agents tend to give high quotes, hoping to real you in and knowing people will probably want to haggle so set a price to allow for this 2) estate agent, solicitor and other fees would be deducted from proceeds.


    On these grounds something less than half would be a fairer price.
    Originally posted by teddysmum
    But
    1) 'market value' is what it would actually fetch, if sold - not what EAs would market it at. This is, for example, what should have been used for the Probate value too. So yes, sister should get half of 'market value'.

    2) if the property is not being sold (ie OP is buying sister's share) then there ARE no estate agents fees, so neither party need pay these, so again, sister should get half of 'market value.

    Yes, there may be solicitors fees (unless they do the transfer themselves which is straightforward), and there will be nominal Land Registry fees, which should be shared equally.
    Last edited by G_M; 14-03-2017 at 2:56 PM.
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 14th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    • 454 Posts
    • 921 Thanks
    Tammykitty
    How have you calculated market value?


    Use Zoopla to get recently sold prices - more accurate than estate agents value.


    Your sister is entitled to half the house, and half of anything else.


    The estate consists of
    House
    Car
    Other Items - Jewellary, Electronics etc.


    Lets use some examples


    House - £200k
    Car - £10k
    Other Items - £10k


    Total Value - £220k, of which you are both entitled to £110k each.


    If you have 75% of the "Market" Value for your half, that means you have £75k available to give your sister.


    Meaning you need to find another £35k, now if you give her the car (And returned the £4k), this would mean you need to find £25k and if you give her the valuable items in the house (Around £10k for her to sell), then that only leaves you £15k short.


    Selling fees should also be taken into account (say 2% of the value) - £4k and say £1k solicitor fees - that's another £5k (£2.5k each) - so down to £12.5k needed.


    Consider the whole estate value and see if you can negotiate with your sister.


    Also - who paid for the funeral?
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    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th Mar 17, 3:23 PM
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    • 3,215 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    As it sounds like you are unable to buy your sister out, it is best to get this over and done ASAP, and get the house on the market as soon as you have the probate sorted. In the mean time start looking for a place of your own, and get your own will in order unless you want your sister to inherit your estate as well.

    Are you the one obtaining letters of administration?
    • Rosemary7391
    • By Rosemary7391 14th Mar 17, 6:00 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 2,613 Thanks
    Rosemary7391
    It might be worth the OP putting some figures up - their income, house value, other stuff in the estate, their savings. It takes time to sell houses, so it might be that even if it goes on the market the OP can try and save like mad to buy t'other half before another buyer is found. And if there's a credible plan to have the money in a short enough timescale it might not even have to go on the market.
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