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    • kida
    • By kida 13th Mar 17, 9:21 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 3Thanks
    kida
    Tax Credit Overpayment - who can help?
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 17, 9:21 PM
    Tax Credit Overpayment - who can help? 13th Mar 17 at 9:21 PM
    Suddenly after 10 years got a Child Tax Credit overpayment demand through the post.

    I have used the wonderful TAXCC.org website and filed a TC846 but advised it is beyond the 3 month window (well after 10 years it would be) I could not dispute. The freedom of information returned a huge pack of jargon with no record of letters being sent in 2007.

    TAXCC's site is no longer updated and I can't email them. Can anyone else advise someone experienced in dealing with such things and helping lodge an appeal.

    I know this is statute barred, but that is not the point. The demand is unexplainable and unfair and I wish to appeal but need help in going about this.
Page 1
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Mar 17, 9:26 PM
    • 1,289 Posts
    • 1,407 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 9:26 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 9:26 PM
    Try http://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/challenging-overpayments/
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 13th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    • 4,433 Posts
    • 2,783 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:21 PM
    A subject access request would be more appropriate
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Mar 17, 5:57 AM
    • 15,711 Posts
    • 39,319 Thanks
    FBaby
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 5:57 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Mar 17, 5:57 AM
    I know this is statute barred, but that is not the point. The demand is unexplainable and unfair and I wish to appeal but need help in going about this.
    Actually it isn't, statute barred doesn't apply in this case. It is unfair that it was left for so long, although it is surprising that there would have been no correspondence at all during this time, so if you moved but didn't insure that mail followed you, then it is not so unfair.

    If indeed there has never been any correspondence sent to you at the address you provided then, it is unfair, and maybe you would have have a case to complain if you can demonstrate that they have never contacted you before about this overpayment but you can't appeal.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 14th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    • 3,385 Posts
    • 2,301 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Mar 17, 8:12 AM
    Actually it isn't, statute barred doesn't apply in this case. It is unfair that it was left for so long, although it is surprising that there would have been no correspondence at all during this time, so if you moved but didn't insure that mail followed you, then it is not so unfair.

    If indeed there has never been any correspondence sent to you at the address you provided then, it is unfair, and maybe you would have have a case to complain if you can demonstrate that they have never contacted you before about this overpayment but you can't appeal.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Why doesn't statute bar apply in this case? (do you mean because of the 2007 letter)

    I replied on the other thread but the 2007 letter is irrelevant really. As long as they notified you of the overpayment on your final award notice at the time then they have fulfilled their statutory duty. Award notices are hard to understand - but i have never seen a case where it wasn't shown, but rarely do people check beyond how much/when the payments will be.

    The best thing you can do is negotiate an affordable time to pay arrangement. There is no right of appeal and the only legal route would potentially be a Judicial Review but i'm not sure I can see any grounds here and it is incredibly expensive to pursue this and out of the reach of most people.

    IQ
    • kida
    • By kida 14th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    kida
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Mar 17, 9:52 AM
    Ok - so to be clear - HMRC make a request for TC Overpayments to be paid 10 years late. I have received no letters, warnings or any communication of such in all of this time. (I moved house in 2013 but all my mail has been redirected.)

    Due to a change in the appeals process in 2013 they then retrospectively tell me in 2017 that because I did not dispute the debt, which I didn't know about, in 2007 - it's too late and I should just pay up?

    Could I not request they send me copies of the letters they supposed to have sent me - there aren't any in the the subject access request pack and any conversations I had recorded have been disposed of prior to 2010.

    Is there no-one that can help decode the crazy jargon updates posted into the subject access pack - codes like:

    [9/10/2007] TCMZ Unfinalised 05/05 - claim finalised subsequent years terminated. Overpayment remitted. Workaround used class 5b. Amount remitted £xxxxxx. Amount not remitted £xxxx PAYMENTS NOT TO BE RECOVERED -DO NOT REMOVE MANUAL CORRE MARKER Tcoss2cumbmwt1
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 14th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • 4,433 Posts
    • 2,783 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Mar 17, 10:12 AM
    The tax credit helpline can issue copies of all awards notices issued. They cannot issue copies of notice to pay letters, I would have thought that would have been covered by the SAR.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 14th Mar 17, 10:59 AM
    • 10,562 Posts
    • 12,472 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 10:59 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Mar 17, 10:59 AM
    Are you saying that you do not believe the overpayment is correct or that you think they cannot collect it after all this time?

    If you believe the overpayment is incorrect and you were responsible about communicating with HMRC about change of circumstances etc then you might have a case of getting this overturned. basically this would be down to an official error on HMRC's part.

    If you were amiss in reporting everything to them then you will need to pay it back.

    If it is the former than have a read of this link:

    http://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/disputes/#time_limit

    and see if it fits your case. (You need to read all of the article)
    • kida
    • By kida 14th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    kida
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    Are you saying that you do not believe the overpayment is correct or that you think they cannot collect it after all this time?
    That's the point I just don't know. I feel it is an obligation of HMRC to explain precisely how and where the debt figure arises so I can review and agree if I was overpaid. If so there is then the quite reasonable issue I believe of why they didn't tell me for 9-10 years?

    As the dispute has been rejected as it exceeds the 3 month limit - I've been advised I should move to make a complaint and if not then satisfied have it passed to an adjudicator?

    One final question - does anyone know of any pre 2013 CTC debts being actually recovered direct from employer or via PAYE?
    • Darksparkle
    • By Darksparkle 14th Mar 17, 12:00 PM
    • 4,433 Posts
    • 2,783 Thanks
    Darksparkle
    The helpline can answer they the overpayment has occurred.

    I believe recovery via tax code only started in 2013/14 although they have always had the ability to do so.
    • Icequeen99
    • By Icequeen99 14th Mar 17, 12:54 PM
    • 3,385 Posts
    • 2,301 Thanks
    Icequeen99
    Ok - so to be clear - HMRC make a request for TC Overpayments to be paid 10 years late. I have received no letters, warnings or any communication of such in all of this time. (I moved house in 2013 but all my mail has been redirected.)

    Due to a change in the appeals process in 2013 they then retrospectively tell me in 2017 that because I did not dispute the debt, which I didn't know about, in 2007 - it's too late and I should just pay up?

    Could I not request they send me copies of the letters they supposed to have sent me - there aren't any in the the subject access request pack and any conversations I had recorded have been disposed of prior to 2010.

    Is there no-one that can help decode the crazy jargon updates posted into the subject access pack - codes like:
    Originally posted by kida
    Clearly something went on in 2007 from that note possibly a system problem but I would need to see the notes either side of it to try and make sense of it.

    If you can show that something went wrong and that you were not correctly notified as provided by the act a complaint would be your only option at this stage.

    Yes they have used PAYE coding to collect but should not be this year. Collecting from employers won't happen until 2018.
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