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  • FIRST POST
    • AngelaDub
    • By AngelaDub 13th Mar 17, 4:43 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 0Thanks
    AngelaDub
    Storage vs infra-red heating
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 17, 4:43 PM
    Storage vs infra-red heating 13th Mar 17 at 4:43 PM
    We bought a flat in August. It is top floor, shares no walls with neighbours and is very open plan and so is dreadfully cold. It came with three really old big storage heaters, one of which broke when I adjusted the output, and the remaining two weren't sufficient to warm the place. So we just switched off the heating and have been freezing the winter away. We want to replace the heating over the summer and be ready for next winter. No gas, electricity only. We are currently on Economy 7 with SSE.

    We are very conflicted about what kind of heaters to install: new, more efficient storage heaters or infra-red heaters.

    Storage heaters seem like they might be cheaper to run because elec tariff is very low during the nighttime when they charge. But we work all day and often go away over weekends and then the heat is wasted.

    This is why IR heating is attractive because as I understand we need only turn it on when we're there? The fact that the IR heating prevents mould is also very appealing to me. But I'm concerned that the IR heating may be very expensive because it will be using the full-whack elec tariff, obviously we would not be on Economy 7 anymore if we went with this option.

    Has anyone had the same quandary? Has anyone got any advice? Has anyone had experience of IR heating in a flat? Many many thanks for any advice you can share.
Page 1
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 13th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    • 3,269 Posts
    • 1,761 Thanks
    lstar337
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 4:54 PM
    Stick with storage heaters, IR heating is a waste of time.

    Buy the biggest ones you can afford so you are storing as much cheap heat as possible.

    Not sure who told you IR prevents mould, or why, but thats a new one for me. If you want to prevent mould you need to remove moisture from the air. That means you need to ventilate (and lose heat at the same time) or purchase a dehumidifier. When we had problems we bought a desiccant dehumidifier and it was the best decision we made. We still use it now to dry clothes inside in the winter.
    • AngelaDub
    • By AngelaDub 13th Mar 17, 5:11 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    AngelaDub
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 5:11 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 5:11 PM
    Ta for dehumidifier tip, will save up for one of those - sorely needed in my flat (and will use it only from midnight to 7am). So the greenage.co.uk is the culprit for persuading me to like IR heating and say it prevents mould:
    Infrared heaters reduce condensation

    Cold walls tend to cool the warm air created by conventional central heating and can cause condensation, whereas infrared heating is designed to heat the walls and the contents of the room. The fact the walls are heated and mean they will stay dry, reducing condensation and the helping prevent the buildup of mould


    They also say that there may not be a long future for Economy 7 type tariffs and I'd hate to spend loads on new storage heaters and then lose the cheap energy!
    Why is IR heating a waste of time? Greenage makes it sound great.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 13th Mar 17, 5:40 PM
    • 27,105 Posts
    • 13,219 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 5:40 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 5:40 PM
    Welcome to the forum.

    There are scores of posts on IR heating if you search this forum, some from people with a vested interest in promoting those heaters. e.g.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5124132

    I agree with the post above, IR heaters have their uses but not for heating a property. However if you ned to be convinced, just buy some really cheap IR heaters to try.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 13th Mar 17, 8:14 PM
    • 3,868 Posts
    • 1,534 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:14 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:14 PM
    We bought a flat in August. It is top floor, shares no walls with neighbours and is very open plan and so is dreadfully cold. It came with three really old big storage heaters, one of which broke when I adjusted the output, and the remaining two weren't sufficient to warm the place. So we just switched off the heating and have been freezing the winter away. We want to replace the heating over the summer and be ready for next winter. No gas, electricity only. We are currently on Economy 7 with SSE.

    We are very conflicted about what kind of heaters to install: new, more efficient storage heaters or infra-red heaters.

    Storage heaters seem like they might be cheaper to run because elec tariff is very low during the nighttime when they charge. But we work all day and often go away over weekends and then the heat is wasted.

    This is why IR heating is attractive because as I understand we need only turn it on when we're there? The fact that the IR heating prevents mould is also very appealing to me. But I'm concerned that the IR heating may be very expensive because it will be using the full-whack elec tariff, obviously we would not be on Economy 7 anymore if we went with this option.

    Has anyone had the same quandary? Has anyone got any advice? Has anyone had experience of IR heating in a flat? Many many thanks for any advice you can share.
    Originally posted by AngelaDub
    All electrical heaters are almost 100% efficient
    So the only difference is if you want to pay full price for the electricity they consume, or roughly half price electricity NSHs use; that is why NSHs were invented!

    Consult a comparison site to find the best deal for you.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 13th Mar 17, 8:17 PM
    • 3,868 Posts
    • 1,534 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:17 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:17 PM
    Ta for dehumidifier tip, will save up for one of those - sorely needed in my flat (and will use it only from midnight to 7am). So the greenage.co.uk is the culprit for persuading me to like IR heating and say it prevents mould:
    Infrared heaters reduce condensation

    Cold walls tend to cool the warm air created by conventional central heating and can cause condensation, whereas infrared heating is designed to heat the walls and the contents of the room. The fact the walls are heated and mean they will stay dry, reducing condensation and the helping prevent the buildup of mould


    They also say that there may not be a long future for Economy 7 type tariffs and I'd hate to spend loads on new storage heaters and then lose the cheap energy!
    Why is IR heating a waste of time? Greenage makes it sound great.
    Originally posted by AngelaDub
    Who exactly are "They"?


    I think E7 will be around longer than you or I will be
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 13th Mar 17, 8:38 PM
    • 7,586 Posts
    • 8,125 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:38 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 8:38 PM
    They also say that there may not be a long future for Economy 7 type tariffs and I'd hate to spend loads on new storage heaters and then lose the cheap energy!
    Originally posted by AngelaDub
    Actually the future may be for much more flexible off-peak tariffs and smart metering; a scheme at Shetland Smart Grid is intended to use storage heaters and stored hot water to absorb surplus renewable energy.

    Instant electric heat like IR heaters is one of the most hostile forms of electricity to demand management.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • AngelaDub
    • By AngelaDub 13th Mar 17, 10:02 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    AngelaDub
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:02 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:02 PM
    So currently the flat has three of these storage heaters, but one of them doesn't work and the remaining two don't heat up the place enough so we've turned them all off. Are these really old? Will we see a dramatic improvement in electric bills and good heating if we upgrade to new heaters? Which storage heaters can you recommend?
    Won't let me add a link to the photo of my heater. Can I try this:
    [IMG][IMG]http : // i67.tinypic . com/wi7z7q.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 13th Mar 17, 11:03 PM
    • 6,341 Posts
    • 4,762 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 11:03 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 11:03 PM
    In your situation the only economic solution is cheap E7 combination water + night store. In your situation fixing or replacing your NS + learning how to best use them is something you should consider. The secondary consideration would be a reasonably cheap new replacement of the storage radiators, though I'm not sure why anyone would choose that alternative

    NSH is and was always was underspecified in almost all cases, that observation also forms the major part of any solution. An adequate quantity of stored cheap heat in your living area is the essential starting point of enough comfortable available heat in your living room.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 14th Mar 17, 6:19 AM
    • 6,172 Posts
    • 5,296 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    Hi,



    that's not a really old heater, I've seen bigger, though modern ones are easier on the eye.

    Those could be repaired fairly cheaply, maybe the one you broke only needs a new controller.
    Y'all take care now.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 14th Mar 17, 10:19 AM
    • 3,269 Posts
    • 1,761 Thanks
    lstar337
    Yes, that one could likely be repaired cheaply. On the other hand it looks fairly small, and as you mention you are not warm enough, an upgrade could get you the extra heat you need.

    Storage heaters typically come in 3 sizes: 1.7kW, 2.55kW, & 3.4kW. It's hard to say for sure from your picture but that looks like a 2.55kW unit. Upgrading to a 3.4kW will improve your heat situation.

    To say for sure, 1.7kW's are typically ~57CM long, 2.55kW's typically 80CM long, and 3.4kW units are typically just over 1M long.

    Any smaller units can be upgraded to bigger units (space providing) to allow for more heat.

    Any units in place that are not giving out much (but some) heat should be checked as a single element could be blown. Set the input to high, output to off, in the morning run your hand across the front (carefully it could be hot) and feel for cold spots.

    Storage heater elements are mounted vertically,

    so you should be able to tell if any are blown.

    They are cheap and easy to replace.
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