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  • FIRST POST
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 13th Mar 17, 7:13 AM
    • 10Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Ron2017
    Pip eligibility
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 17, 7:13 AM
    Pip eligibility 13th Mar 17 at 7:13 AM
    Hello, i wonder if someone can help me as I am currently getting a headache about pip. I applied back in April last year and haven't even had an assessment yet as they have kept messing things up, but that's a whole book in itself but i wont go into that. I don't think i will get pip as i cannot prove I'm unwell if that makes sense.
    For the past six years i have been unable to work. It first started out with dizziness and pain in my chest, i never for one minute considered my heart as the pain lasted for hours at a time and i was only 32 at the time. To cut a long story short I have had every heart test you can imagine, most neurological tests but they still cannot find out what's wrong with me. They know it's something as i have passed out quite a few times and one neurologist said i have autonomic dysfunction when he examined me.
    Most of my time is spent lying down as I'm either in pain or so dizzy i cannot really stand, but on the odd occasion i feel reasonably okay i can easily prepare meals or walk 200 metres etc. The majority of the time i cannot do those things but I'm not sure if that will be considered. It also doesn't help that the doctors seem to be at a loss, i am still under cardiology as i have a recording device in my chest. After that i have no idea where they will refer me next.
    Basically any help is appreciated with regards to if I'm eligible for pip or not?
    Thank you.
Page 2
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • 9,087 Posts
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    Muttleythefrog
    It's old because there is very little more that anyone can do for me. Surely you don't expect people to keep seeing medical professionals for no reason?
    I wonder how many claimants actually go away with their completed claim form, read it, amend it and then send it off? Most wouldn't understand what is put on the form hence why they need help. I trust people that are supposed to be 'in the know'. Otherwise what is the point.
    So if you went to a solicitor and he/she was negligent in how they dealt with the problem what would you do?
    If someone holds themselves out to be an expert and offers to do some work for you, then you would expect it to be done right. - and that goes for the DWP AND WRO's. People can and should be held accountable for errors or mistakes that they make.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Of course not... in fact I don't. But then you must appreciate that does mean the evidence becomes old and potentially irrelevant on both counts of being timely or relevant to the criteria being looked at. Your evidence which you claim indicates that you are seriously disabled may well do that but be so old as to be unreliable or be irrelevant to the specific criteria. It may be that things claimed on the PIP2 are not corroborated by other evidence supplied... it's not like the doctors etc you have seen in the past could have predicted PIP or the criteria.

    You are making an argument that professionals should act professionally... that's perfectly valid and for example you could sue a solicitor for professional negligence. However you were talking about something very different.. which is suing because you don't get the outcome you want. Professional advisers will try to give best advice... but they're unlikely to offer any guarantees of outcome... imagine how many defence lawyers or barristers we'd have sleeping on the streets if they could be sued if they lost a case..lol

    You need to take responsibility for your failings... and perhaps remember you're not the only PIP claimant in the world... others need advice... not interference.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 14-03-2017 at 11:20 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 14th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    • 570 Posts
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    rockingbilly
    Of course not... in fact I don't. But then you must appreciate that does mean the evidence becomes old and potentially irrelevant on both counts of being timely or relevant to the criteria being looked at. Your evidence which you claim indicates that you are seriously disabled may well do that but be so old as to be unreliable or be irrelevant to the specific criteria. It may be that things claimed on the PIP2 are not corroborated by other evidence supplied... it's not like the doctors etc you have seen in the past could have predicted PIP or the criteria.
    So in order to conclude and to help others in the same boat what should you do if the evidence is old and that you do not have recent dealings with the consultants or GP other than to get the monthly repeat prescription? The GP hasn't got a clue how I live my life and even if he did it would be no more than he says she says.

    You are making an argument that professionals should act professionally... that's perfectly valid and for example you could sue a solicitor for professional negligence. However you were talking about something very different.. which is suing because you don't get the outcome you want.
    No not outcome, just plain old advice and help filling in a form. Surely there has to be some redress if that 'professional' does not explain on the from what he/she is told by the claimant? Surely they have a duty to ensure that the claim is made in the hope that an award is forthcoming? That they should act in the interest of the claimant when putting forward a claim? It can't be right that they are so poor in doing the job that the claimant ends up in a worse position because of the quality of the claim process?


    Professional advisers will try to give best advice... but they're unlikely to offer any guarantees of outcome... imagine how many defence lawyers or barristers we'd have sleeping on the streets if they could be sued if they lost a case..lol
    Personally I would not be looking for any guarantee, only that and the claim is made in a legal way and explains everything in such a way that the claimant has half a chance of getting an award. As you have said a poor quality claim only goes to damage your chance of an award
    You need to take responsibility for your failings... and perhaps remember you're not the only PIP claimant in the world... others need advice... not interference.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    No doubt there are 1000's of claimants like me in the same boat.. My postings can only but help them too.
    My failings? All I have ever done is to seek advice from professionals. I ended up with the JC completing the claim form. I cannot think of one thing that I could have done but didn't by choice.
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 4:07 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    No help from the benefits point of view but have you ever had a tilt table test?
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    I was booked referred to one about four years ago but then i was sent off in a different direction. But no doubt they will get around to it, to be honest it's the one test i dread as i feel dizzy enough as it is, without them trying to make me dizzy.
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 4:36 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    I have tried to multi quote but it does not appear to be working. I appreciate all the replies.

    Someone mentioned my dizziness, i can be laying down and just become dizzy. I'm not sure if that would rule out pots, to be honest my symptoms are so varied I sometimes wonder whether i believe me. I say that as i have had a few doctors dismiss is as being psychosomatic, then again i have some who say i need further investigation as in their opinion there is something but they cannot pinpoint it etc etc

    I am on ESA and have been for about four years. Strangely they have never once queried why i am still on it and have only had certificates saying pain/dizziness.

    I filled out my form myself and sent a covering letter explaining that their form allows no room to really explain properly. I wrote on it that most days i am in pain for several hours and also suffer dizziness etc etc.

    I have actually had a tribunal already and won. ATOS sent me an appointment (or so they say) but I never received it. So i did not attend an appointment and my claim was disallowed. I asked for a mandatory reconsideration and that was turned down. So i applied to tribunal and sent a letter as i was not going all the way there and I won my appeal. I was quite surprised when I received the papers and saw that the DWP basically calling me a liar. But when I originally phoned ATOS and said i never received anything from them, they apologised and said they would send out another appointment but the DWP obviously had other ideas.

    Thanks once again for all the help. It is greatly appreciated!
    • Penitent
    • By Penitent 14th Mar 17, 4:37 PM
    • 282 Posts
    • 719 Thanks
    Penitent
    No doubt there are 1000's of claimants like me in the same boat.. My postings can only but help them too.
    My failings? All I have ever done is to seek advice from professionals. I ended up with the JC completing the claim form. I cannot think of one thing that I could have done but didn't by choice.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    But your advice is not to bother using professionals because they don't help and not to bother filling in the form properly or sending evidence because no-one will read it. How will that help them? Doesn't that advice increase the chance of rejection?

    I fully support giving people "prepare for the worst" advice so they're not taken off guard. They do need to understand that the assessor is not their friend and they need to be prepared to appeal if need be, but you seem to be advocating just assuming nothing will get read so don't bother.

    Ron:

    No-one can say for sure that you will get it or you won't. You've already applied so it's too late to get help with the forms if you didn't already, but you should continue getting copies of any reports or clinic letters to use as evidence that you're being tested for an ongoing condition. You can send further evidence to them while you're waiting for an assessment (hopefully you won't be waiting much longer, it sounds like you're having a bit of an adventure on that front).

    Beyond that, the best advice I can offer is to try not to stress too much about it while you're waiting (easier said than done, I know, I've lost count of the number of folk who've found the application process for ESA and PIP has made them more ill).
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 4:38 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 672 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Could I just make a suggestion?

    The only reason that our resident troll is able to derail a thread is because we respond to him.

    Don't respond, simples, then he may make his own thread and we can all argue there with his stupidity.
    Originally posted by bspm
    The problem is that he says things that are incorrect which if not commented on could cause problems for other posters.

    I believe that it was suggested that if we all kept quiet he had been reported and he would likely get a ban. Whether he should or not is open to discussion but that didn't happen
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 4:40 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 672 Thanks
    NeilCr
    I have tried to multi quote but it does not appear to be working. I appreciate all the replies.

    Someone mentioned my dizziness, i can be laying down and just become dizzy. I'm not sure if that would rule out pots, to be honest my symptoms are so varied I sometimes wonder whether i believe me. I say that as i have had a few doctors dismiss is as being psychosomatic, then again i have some who say i need further investigation as in their opinion there is something but they cannot pinpoint it etc etc

    I am on ESA and have been for about four years. Strangely they have never once queried why i am still on it and have only had certificates saying pain/dizziness.

    I filled out my form myself and sent a covering letter explaining that their form allows no room to really explain properly. I wrote on it that most days i am in pain for several hours and also suffer dizziness etc etc.

    I have actually had a tribunal already and won. ATOS sent me an appointment (or so they say) but I never received it. So i did not attend an appointment and my claim was disallowed. I asked for a mandatory reconsideration and that was turned down. So i applied to tribunal and sent a letter as i was not going all the way there and I won my appeal. I was quite surprised when I received the papers and saw that the DWP basically calling me a liar. But when I originally phoned ATOS and said i never received anything from them, they apologised and said they would send out another appointment but the DWP obviously had other ideas.

    Thanks once again for all the help. It is greatly appreciated!
    Originally posted by Ron2017
    Okay. So you won the tribunal. When was this and what was said about payment being made/backdated. Just trying to get my head round your actual timeline
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 6:04 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    Okay. So you won the tribunal. When was this and what was said about payment being made/backdated. Just trying to get my head round your actual timeline
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Hi, I won a tribunal about disallowing my claim as I did not receive the appointment. I assume that would not be enough to automatically entitle me to pip and that I will still need an assessment, which I think is right.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 6:27 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 672 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Hi, I won a tribunal about disallowing my claim as I did not receive the appointment. I assume that would not be enough to automatically entitle me to pip and that I will still need an assessment, which I think is right.
    Originally posted by Ron2017
    I'm honestly a little bit confused now. You normally only go to a tribunal to appeal about a decision made on whether or not to award you PIP and the level of that award. Going to a Mandatory Reconsideration is the first step to that. What date was the tribunal?

    Someone more versed in this area (like Alice Holt) may have more information - if not I am inclined to suggest you seek advice from your local CAB or advice centre. It would help, perhaps, if someone could look at your paperwork
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 6:49 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    I'm honestly a little bit confused now. You normally only go to a tribunal to appeal about a decision made on whether or not to award you PIP and the level of that award. Going to a Mandatory Reconsideration is the first step to that. What date was the tribunal?

    Someone more versed in this area (like Alice Holt) may have more information - if not I am inclined to suggest you seek advice from your local CAB or advice centre. It would help, perhaps, if someone could look at your paperwork
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    My claim was disallowed around November for failing to go to my assessment, I applied for a mandatory reconsideration but that was rejected so i appealed to the tribunal and that was won in January. I assume I am waiting for an ATOS assessment.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 6:55 PM
    • 698 Posts
    • 672 Thanks
    NeilCr
    That's too quick for a tribunal in my experience

    I'm going to leave this for someone with more knowledge to respond to

    Sorry I can't help. Good luck with it all
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 9:51 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    That's too quick for a tribunal in my experience

    I'm going to leave this for someone with more knowledge to respond to

    Sorry I can't help. Good luck with it all
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Yeah same boat here... think someone with understanding of what has happened here is necessary... it sounds like the appeal wasn't against the PIP decision as such but the DWP claim of failure to comply with process which led to claim failure. This is territory I don't know anything about if so.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 10:08 PM
    • 9,087 Posts
    • 17,070 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    No doubt there are 1000's of claimants like me in the same boat.. My postings can only but help them too.
    My failings? All I have ever done is to seek advice from professionals. I ended up with the JC completing the claim form. I cannot think of one thing that I could have done but didn't by choice.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    On evidence... claimants can only use what evidence they have that is ideally recent and suitable to demonstrate the problems they have.. especially useful if descriptor relevant. The general advice to claimants would be to keep a good ongoing relationship with any HCPs involved with their treatment or care and get copies of all related documents... potentially maintaining relationship for future favours of specific report writing for benefit claim evidence (hit and miss.. but some will get lucky). Obviously though in many cases there may be no need to remain in touch with medical professionals. Not ideal but not necessarily a problem for a claim... you use what you have and make as strong an application as possible. You try to get as many cards in your hand as you can... and then play your best hand.

    Advisors should act in your interest if they're advising you.. but at the end of the day the claimant is responsible for their claim (unless some legal authorities exist otherwise). The need to constantly blame those who advised you won't help you. I've had poor experience with CAB.. when I claimed DLA... I felt the advice was poor and the advisor amateurish. Fortunately I was able to see some flaws and address them. There's no guarantee advisors of the sort we're talking will be able to do a good job.. but for the majority of claimants who feel unable to handle these things at a good level themselves... they may be extremely useful and appeal success rates (when they are often involved) imply often invaluable. For the most part they will have substantially more expertise than claimants. I cannot comment of Jobcentre staff!

    Your postings are often not helpful at all... they seek to derail the claims of others in a subtle way... it's nothing new. The catastrophes of your own claims (according to you) should serve as lessons to others (even if untrue). On one hand you want to advise claimants.. but your own actions imply you feel incapable of the most basic submission for your own case... you passed the buck to others and didn't chase up or check their input. Your PIP2 form looked dicey to you but you signed it and didn't even take a copy leaving you now waiting to discover what was on it.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 14-03-2017 at 10:14 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 10:14 PM
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    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    Yeah same boat here... think someone with understanding of what has happened here is necessary... it sounds like the appeal wasn't against the PIP decision as such but the DWP claim of failure to comply with process which led to claim failure. This is territory I don't know anything about if so.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    My claim was disallowed as i did not attend the medical assessment. I appealed against that and it went to tribunal which was found in my favour. I am very sure of these facts. It was certainly a tribunal, in Sutton if memory serves me correctly.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 10:50 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    My claim was disallowed as i did not attend the medical assessment. I appealed against that and it went to tribunal which was found in my favour. I am very sure of these facts. It was certainly a tribunal, in Sutton if memory serves me correctly.
    Originally posted by Ron2017
    If you get no advice... and haven't already done so then contact the DWP PIP number. I would have thought by now you'd have received some response from DWP following your tribunal success... and given previous events you couldn't rule out that going astray. Definitely I'd see what their records are saying on file. If that leads to no joy then presumably you have your appeal judgement and could send a letter with copy to DWP asking what they intend to do. But someone hopefully around here has experience of what appears to be an appeal (successful) against the DWP determination you failed to attend appointment after being invited.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 14-03-2017 at 10:54 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 14th Mar 17, 10:59 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    If you get no advice... and haven't already done so then contact the DWP PIP number. I would have thought by now you'd have received some response from DWP following your tribunal success... and given previous events you couldn't rule out that going astray. Definitely I'd see what their records are saying on file. If that leads to no joy then presumably you have your appeal judgement and could send a letter with copy to DWP asking what they intend to do. But someone hopefully around here has experience of what appears to be an appeal (successful) against the DWP determination you failed to attend appointment after being invited.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    I did actually have a call from dwp that i had forgotten about. He confirmed my appeal was successful and that they have 28 days to appeal, he also asked my bank number. I remember going off on a little rant about how is was ridiculous to get to the tribunal stage, without having the cheek to appeal it. He rang me back half an hour later saying they would not appeal. I haven't heard anything since. I did ring ATOS though as wanted to make sure they did not mess up again and they offered me an appointment in Ilford in two days time. I asked if they realised how far that is from me and i have not heard anything since.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 11:14 PM
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    Muttleythefrog
    I did actually have a call from dwp that i had forgotten about. He confirmed my appeal was successful and that they have 28 days to appeal, he also asked my bank number. I remember going off on a little rant about how is was ridiculous to get to the tribunal stage, without having the cheek to appeal it. He rang me back half an hour later saying they would not appeal. I haven't heard anything since. I did ring ATOS though as wanted to make sure they did not mess up again and they offered me an appointment in Ilford in two days time. I asked if they realised how far that is from me and i have not heard anything since.
    Originally posted by Ron2017
    Yes they could have presumably appealed on an error in law to upper tribunal.. it happens but not usually. So the DWP accept the tribunal outcome. But I am concerned a little you are apparently directing ATOS HC to carry out a PIP disability assessment rather than the other way around.... did they contact you at all to arrange an assessment following your appeal success? If not... this seems irregular. You may well have 1 opportunity to rearrange.. and it sounds like there may be a closer venue. Contact them is my advice... you're on the verge of assessment... if unsuitable tomorrow may be last chance... but for goodness sake do attend if you can't rearrange... and be prepared best you can.. with sound awareness of relevant disability descriptors that apply to you and how you will describe your difficulties in relation to those activities.

    As a side note.. I would strongly advise writing down basic details of any contact you have with DWP or ATOS HC and take copies of anything sent.

    It is deeply unfortunate the thread has thrown many of us off beam here... it looked at the outset to be an enquiry about potentially getting PIP while awaiting assessment that has been delayed for some reasons... now we seem to be post-appeal regarding decision you failed to attend assessment thus don't qualify.. (with a currently ongoing successful claim for ESA in background)... and now it seems you've prompted the arrangement of an ATOS assessment to get the claim back on track following that successful appeal. You appear on the verge of an assessment that you seem unclear about whether is going to go ahead because it is so far from home. If there is any misunderstanding here it is imperative you clarify otherwise any last ditch advice you get could be pure rubbish.

    I'm also a little concerned you apparently received a call asking for your bank details... I would have thought the DWP would have been supplied that already and given no payments are due they would have had little need to ask again.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 15-03-2017 at 12:21 AM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 11:42 PM
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    NeilCr
    I am struggling with this

    Do you still have the tribunal papers? If so, perhaps you could contact them to find out what is supposed to be happening

    Otherwise, unless anyone else comes along with some more insight, I would, as I suggested earlier, go into CAB or similar with any paperwork for help with clarification of your situation
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 15th Mar 17, 12:55 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Ron2017
    Let me start again as this is getting very complicated.

    I applied for pip in April 2016, actually after a nurse told me i should be getting it. After everything i have read about ATOS i was not going to bother but though the esa people may think it strange. To be honest I am surprised i have received ESA for so long without them once enquiring more about my condition.

    Forms went missing according to dwp so had to fill them out again. Hence why this has all took so long.

    Received a letter from dwp in November saying claim disallowed as failed to attend interview with ATOS. Mandatory reconsideration failed but won at tribunal.

    Man from DWP called and asked for bank details after telling me about tribunal decision etc. He was definitely from dwp and i am 100% sure of this.

    Rang ATOS to make sure there would not be another mistake and they offered me an appointment in Ilford in two days(not two days from now but two days from when i rang). I told them there is no way I'm going there. Even if i do venture out it's not far as pain/dizziness can hit me at anytime. Ilford is in Essex and i live in the suburbs of south east London, so quite far really.

    Sorry for the confusion.
    • bspm
    • By bspm 15th Mar 17, 1:00 AM
    • 324 Posts
    • 470 Thanks
    bspm
    The problem is that he says things that are incorrect which if not commented on could cause problems for other posters.

    I believe that it was suggested that if we all kept quiet he had been reported and he would likely get a ban. Whether he should or not is open to discussion but that didn't happen
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    Totally agree re him giving wrong advice, that's why I asked him to shut up many posts ago.

    Some are feeding him, arguing with his 'experiences' , obviously if he gives wrong advice he needs correcting.

    However when he starts with his diatribe maybe we could just type

    ^^^^Utter rubbish, ignore^^^^^^

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