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  • FIRST POST
    • Ron2017
    • By Ron2017 13th Mar 17, 7:13 AM
    • 10Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Ron2017
    Pip eligibility
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 17, 7:13 AM
    Pip eligibility 13th Mar 17 at 7:13 AM
    Hello, i wonder if someone can help me as I am currently getting a headache about pip. I applied back in April last year and haven't even had an assessment yet as they have kept messing things up, but that's a whole book in itself but i wont go into that. I don't think i will get pip as i cannot prove I'm unwell if that makes sense.
    For the past six years i have been unable to work. It first started out with dizziness and pain in my chest, i never for one minute considered my heart as the pain lasted for hours at a time and i was only 32 at the time. To cut a long story short I have had every heart test you can imagine, most neurological tests but they still cannot find out what's wrong with me. They know it's something as i have passed out quite a few times and one neurologist said i have autonomic dysfunction when he examined me.
    Most of my time is spent lying down as I'm either in pain or so dizzy i cannot really stand, but on the odd occasion i feel reasonably okay i can easily prepare meals or walk 200 metres etc. The majority of the time i cannot do those things but I'm not sure if that will be considered. It also doesn't help that the doctors seem to be at a loss, i am still under cardiology as i have a recording device in my chest. After that i have no idea where they will refer me next.
    Basically any help is appreciated with regards to if I'm eligible for pip or not?
    Thank you.
Page 1
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 13th Mar 17, 7:21 AM
    • 6,009 Posts
    • 10,809 Thanks
    GlasweJen
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 7:21 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 17, 7:21 AM
    No help from the benefits point of view but have you ever had a tilt table test?
    Bounts, Quidco, Shop and Scan, Receipt Hog, Costco Cashback, Debit card cashback

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    • Tolly_T
    • By Tolly_T 13th Mar 17, 9:13 AM
    • 106 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    Tolly_T
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 9:13 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 17, 9:13 AM
    I didn't get any points for mental health problems, which I did have years of evidence for but I did get points for pain without good evidence. I haven't got a diagnosis, plenty of tests but no diagnosis. For anyone going for a PIP assessment it can be a bit hit and miss and depends more on the assessor, whether they see you're genuine and believe what you say or whether they think they know better than you by simply looking at you and ignore what you tell them. All is not lost, it's not about diagnosis, it's about how your condition affects you. You've evidence that you have a problem simply by the fact that you've had and are having lots of tests, the consultants haven't simply dismissed you as not having a problem.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 13th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:26 AM
    I didn't get any points for mental health problems, which I did have years of evidence for but I did get points for pain without good evidence. I haven't got a diagnosis, plenty of tests but no diagnosis. For anyone going for a PIP assessment it can be a bit hit and miss and depends more on the assessor, whether they see you're genuine and believe what you say or whether they think they know better than you by simply looking at you and ignore what you tell them. All is not lost, it's not about diagnosis, it's about how your condition affects you. You've evidence that you have a problem simply by the fact that you've had and are having lots of tests, the consultants haven't simply dismissed you as not having a problem.
    Originally posted by Tolly_T
    I have plenty of good evidence that supports that my life is quite difficult due to the many disabilities I have. Yet because it seemed that the claim form was poorly constructed I wasn't even offered a face to face assessment - I was told 0 points.
    As you say it is down to how the assessor feels on the day.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 13th Mar 17, 10:47 AM
    • 10,166 Posts
    • 12,009 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:47 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 17, 10:47 AM
    OP, you don't say whether you had any help with completing the PIP form or whether you sent any medical evidence with the form?

    Since you have not had your assessment yet it is not too late to collect your medical evidence and take it with you on the day. The assessor must look at this evidence even if you take it on the day.

    The fact that you have not yet been diagnosed should not disallow you from claiming. The fact that you are being investigated should suffice. If you do not have your reports from whoever you have seen then these can be obtained from your doctor (you may have to pay a fee).

    Also, because your illnesses are fluctuating it is a good idea to keep a diary of your days for a few weeks. This should be detailed and start from the beginning of the day to the end. It should include how you feel, what you can and cannot do, whether you need help etc etc.

    At the assessment try not to answer yes or no to the questions. Say, most days I .............. On a bad day I .............. Once a *****(month/week) I can ...................

    You do not say whether you are receiving ESA. Are you?
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 13th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    OP, you don't say whether you had any help with completing the PIP form or whether you sent any medical evidence with the form?
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    In my opinion it does seem not to matter what you send in. They either don't bother to read it or dismiss it entirely.
    • bspm
    • By bspm 13th Mar 17, 4:53 PM
    • 323 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    bspm
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 4:53 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 17, 4:53 PM
    In my opinion it does seem not to matter what you send in. They either don't bother to read it or dismiss it entirely.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly

    Please shut up, you add nothing but negativity and lies to every thread you post on.

    You are not helping new posters at all who come here for help and advice.
    Last edited by bspm; 13-03-2017 at 5:00 PM.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 805 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 6:09 PM
    Ron2017,

    From your OP, I would think a PIP award is a possibility.
    The PIP assessment should look at what you can do (or can't do) reliably, repeatedly, in a reasonable timescale for the majority of the time.
    These sites are helpful:
    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/check-you-are-eligible/

    If you are not awarded PIP, it is worth getting advice from your local CAB about an appeal.

    I have recently posted some info on PIP assessment on another thread, which I have copied below:

    About the PIP assessment:
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-pip-claim/your-assessment/
    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-medical-assessments

    The assessment should look at what you can reliably do on the majority of days.
    Keeping a diary so you can accurately describe how you cope with the PIP activities and descriptors on the majority of days is a good idea.
    Your carer should be able to add information.

    Some suggestions:
    Ask your carer to take a notepad & pen with her and make notes during the assessment of what was said, etc
    Look at the PIP points and be clear where you should score the necessary 8/12 points
    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
    Have some notes / care diary around these descriptors to take to the assessment for examples to tell the assessor about.
    Give full answers, you need to explain fully why you can't do the relevant activities/descriptors reliably for the majority of the time.
    Take your copy of the PIP2 form with you.

    Reliably - nicked from Benefits & Work
    "It’s vital that, before you complete your form, you understand that just because you can carry out an
    activity, that doesn’t mean you are prevented from scoring points for being unable to do it.
    Guidance issued by the DWP states that you need to be able to complete an activity ‘reliably’ in
    order for it to apply. According to the guidance, ‘reliably’ means whether you can do so:
    • Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
    • To a necessary and acceptable standard – given the nature of the activity.
    • Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
    • In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period.
    Initially, the government refused to put this guidance into the regulations themselves. But after
    considerable pressure it has been incorporated, although the word ‘reliably’ itself has not been
    included. (See: ‘General definitions you need to know’ for the regulations on this).
    The DWP guidance also states that ‘pain, fatigue, breathlessness, nausea and motivation’ will all be
    ‘key factors’ in deciding whether an activity can be done reliably.
    So, for example, if you can ‘wash and bathe unaided’ you will not score any points for that activity.
    But if it takes you hours to do so or it would be dangerous to leave you alone to bathe – for
    example, because you might have a seizure - then you may score points.
    Or if you could walk 20 metres once, but afterwards you would be so exhausted that you could not
    do so again for hours or you would be unable to carry out other everyday activities after walking 20
    metres, then you may count as not being able to do so.
    Decisions about issues such as what is safe, what is a reasonable time and a good enough
    standard are subjective ones. All you can do is give as much detailed evidence as you can and, if you are not happy with the decision, consider an appeal."

    Good luck

    PS As bspm has suggested rockinbilly's posts are not helpful. I would suggest you ignore them.
    • time2getalife
    • By time2getalife 13th Mar 17, 6:47 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    time2getalife
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 6:47 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 6:47 PM
    I would agree with glaswejen about asking for a tilt table test , as it could be POTS which is an autonomic dysfunction disorder. It can cause dizziness when you sit or stand upright from lying down , as the body can't correct itself in time which causes the dizziness.
    My daughter has the same symptoms and after her tilt table test they gave her advice on how to get up slowly and she has to increase her salt intake as that can't help.
    So it might be worth you asking for the text.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 13th Mar 17, 6:52 PM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Please shut up, you add nothing but negativity and lies to every thread you post on.

    You are not helping new posters at all who come here for help and advice.
    Originally posted by bspm
    ???

    I was only pointing out that the assessor does not always look at the evidence. In my PIP case they certainly didn't
    And going back to my last ESA assessment, neither the ESA50 or the evidence was available to the assessor - he told me so.
    In my opinion it does seem not to matter what you send in. They either don't bother to read it or dismiss it entirely. Where are the lies in what my opinion is?
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 13th Mar 17, 6:59 PM
    • 9,087 Posts
    • 17,065 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    ???

    I was only pointing out that the assessor does not always look at the evidence. In my PIP case they certainly didn't
    And going back to my last ESA assessment, neither the ESA50 or the evidence was available to the assessor - he told me so.
    In my opinion it does seem not to matter what you send in. They either don't bother to read it or dismiss it entirely. Where are the lies in what my opinion is?
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Your opinion is entirely unhelpful and deliberately so. What is put on the PIP2 (or ESA50 if claiming ESA) is absolutely crucial. It will be the basis of your evidence and even if the DWP (or private medical contractor) largely ignore it you will be falling back on it in making your case including potentially at tribunal. You don't even know what you put on your PIP2 yet (as you didn't read what someone else put on it and didn't keep a copy) so your comment in that regard seems somewhat diminished. In fact it is likely the decision on your PIP claim is almost exclusively based on the poor completion of the PIP2 and you have seemingly agreed with that.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Mar 17, 7:36 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 805 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Your opinion is entirely unhelpful and deliberately so. What is put on the PIP2 (or ESA50 if claiming ESA) is absolutely crucial. It will be the basis of your evidence and even if the DWP largely ignore it you will be falling back on it in making your case at tribunal. .
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    Absolutely.
    A badly completed ESA50 / PIP2 makes the tribunal hearing very difficult. The form remains a central piece of evidence for the tribunal panel.

    The appellant has the tricky task of explaining why an activity / descriptor which wasn't a problem when they completed the form actually was a problem. Which can then cause them not to appear credible.

    Their representative has to write a very persuasive statement backed up by compelling medical evidence. Getting such medical evidence which directly relates to the descriptors can be hit and miss as often GP's charge, or the client may not have visited their GP recently, or may not have discussed how the condition affects them.

    If a DWP presenting officer attends the tribunal (and more are), an inadequate form provides a very helpful line of attack to have the appeal dismissed..

    It's quite possible to get a successful tribunal outcome when the form has been botched, but it makes the process much, much more uncertain.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 14th Mar 17, 12:00 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Your opinion is entirely unhelpful and deliberately so. What is put on the PIP2 (or ESA50 if claiming ESA) is absolutely crucial. It will be the basis of your evidence and even if the DWP (or private medical contractor) largely ignore it you will be falling back on it in making your case including potentially at tribunal. You don't even know what you put on your PIP2 yet (as you didn't read what someone else put on it and didn't keep a copy) so your comment in that regard seems somewhat diminished. In fact it is likely the decision on your PIP claim is almost exclusively based on the poor completion of the PIP2 and you have seemingly agreed with that.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    The independent evidence suggests a high level of disability. And I agree that the PIP2 in my case was probably poorly completed by those that should know better (the DWP themselves). So given that it would seem that the assessor either didn't look at the independent evidence or if he/she did then it was largely ignored.

    Just goes to show that even with so called 'experts' helping to fill out these forms according to you, they can damage your claim irreparably even if your independent evidence actually supports an award. I do actually wonder sometimes that with all of this negativity involved over the correct type of evidence and who are the best advisors that most claimants are on a hiding to nothing through no fault of their own. Maybe Welfare Rights advisors should be regulated like solicitors and then you can sue them if it all goes wrong.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 14th Mar 17, 12:05 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly

    The appellant has the tricky task of explaining why an activity / descriptor which wasn't a problem when they completed the form actually was a problem. Which can then cause them not to appear credible.

    .
    Originally posted by Alice Holt
    It really isn't a case of it not being a problem when the form was completed, it is more a case of an oversight in not showing that there was a problem. Just because something is not mentioned on the application form it doesn't mean to say that it didn't exist.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 14th Mar 17, 12:29 AM
    • 9,087 Posts
    • 17,065 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    The independent evidence suggests a high level of disability. And I agree that the PIP2 in my case was probably poorly completed by those that should know better (the DWP themselves). So given that it would seem that the assessor either didn't look at the independent evidence or if he/she did then it was largely ignored.

    Just goes to show that even with so called 'experts' helping to fill out these forms according to you, they can damage your claim irreparably even if your independent evidence actually supports an award. I do actually wonder sometimes that with all of this negativity involved over the correct type of evidence and who are the best advisors that most claimants are on a hiding to nothing through no fault of their own. Maybe Welfare Rights advisors should be regulated like solicitors and then you can sue them if it all goes wrong.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    Your independent evidence is so old the doctors who provided it may not still be alive... and I wonder how relevant it was anyway regarding the descriptors. But again... you are trying to pass on blame. If you could sue WROs because things don't work out as wanted.. then I would assume WROs would be in even shorter supply. Utterly ridiculous.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 14th Mar 17, 4:53 AM
    • 693 Posts
    • 662 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Your independent evidence is so old the doctors who provided it may not still be alive... and I wonder how relevant it was anyway regarding the descriptors. But again... you are trying to pass on blame. If you could sue WROs because things don't work out as wanted.. then I would assume WROs would be in even shorter supply. Utterly ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog

    Rockingbilly's form wasn't completed by a WRO. It was someone from the DWP. I am sure he could try suing them if he wants!. Given he signed the form as true it would be interesting to see how he gets on
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 14th Mar 17, 8:20 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Your independent evidence is so old the doctors who provided it may not still be alive... and I wonder how relevant it was anyway regarding the descriptors. But again... you are trying to pass on blame. If you could sue WROs because things don't work out as wanted.. then I would assume WROs would be in even shorter supply. Utterly ridiculous.
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    It's old because there is very little more that anyone can do for me. Surely you don't expect people to keep seeing medical professionals for no reason?
    I wonder how many claimants actually go away with their completed claim form, read it, amend it and then send it off? Most wouldn't understand what is put on the form hence why they need help. I trust people that are supposed to be 'in the know'. Otherwise what is the point.
    So if you went to a solicitor and he/she was negligent in how they dealt with the problem what would you do?
    If someone holds themselves out to be an expert and offers to do some work for you, then you would expect it to be done right. - and that goes for the DWP AND WRO's. People can and should be held accountable for errors or mistakes that they make.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 14th Mar 17, 8:24 AM
    • 567 Posts
    • 201 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Rockingbilly's form wasn't completed by a WRO. It was someone from the DWP. I am sure he could try suing them if he wants!. Given he signed the form as true it would be interesting to see how he gets on
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    So who then is responsible for making errors on the claim form - me or the professional who completed it on my behalf?
    Signing a statement like that is only valid if you as an ordinary person believed at the time that it had been completed correctly. It does not absolve responsibility or liability on the part of the person completing the form.
    • bigbulldog
    • By bigbulldog 14th Mar 17, 8:38 AM
    • 477 Posts
    • 411 Thanks
    bigbulldog
    Rockingbilly again YOU have derailed another posters thread out of 18 posts 7 of them are yours about the same old stuff......


    START YOUR OWN THREAD.
    • bspm
    • By bspm 14th Mar 17, 8:59 AM
    • 323 Posts
    • 468 Thanks
    bspm
    Could I just make a suggestion?

    The only reason that our resident troll is able to derail a thread is because we respond to him.

    Don't respond, simples, then he may make his own thread and we can all argue there with his stupidity.
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