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  • FIRST POST
    • rebecca p
    • By rebecca p 12th Mar 17, 8:19 PM
    • 12Posts
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    rebecca p
    Does one have to be severely disabled to be awarded support group?
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:19 PM
    Does one have to be severely disabled to be awarded support group? 12th Mar 17 at 8:19 PM
    And what warrants severely disabled? My daughter is soon going to move into supported housing. She has a mild LD but with comorbid Schizophrenia which is written down in her medical notes as a chronic condition but it does fluctuate. She has periods of stability because she's taking antipsychotics but with these periods of wellness she thinks she does not need medication and refuses to take them and her condition deteriorates quite quickly and she lacks insight. This is when she becomes very psychotic and is a risk to herself and she is sectioned for her own safety.

    I'm worried because as her periods of stability are increasing with the right medication regimen and support she has will her benefits payments decrease because without knowing her background she presents as an able person. Will the WCA take into account her vulnerability and her quick descent into psychosis without her medication for which she has been sectioned 6 times for so far.

    Will moving out of the family home into a supported living setting with continual staff support help with her benefit applications. Will that be taken into account?
Page 1
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 12th Mar 17, 8:23 PM
    • 12,203 Posts
    • 18,114 Thanks
    nannytone
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:23 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:23 PM
    entry to the support group is based solely on meeting one or more of the support group descriptors.

    have a look at the support group descriptors to see which, if any apply to your daughter.
    then spend time gathering evidence that supports her claim.

    good luck
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 12th Mar 17, 8:24 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:24 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:24 PM
    And what warrants severely disabled? My daughter is soon going to move into supported housing. She has a mild LD but with comorbid Schizophrenia which is written down in her medical notes as a chronic condition but it does fluctuate. She has periods of stability because she's taking antipsychotics but with these periods of wellness she thinks she does not need medication and refuses to take them and her condition deteriorates quite quickly and she lacks insight. This is when she becomes very psychotic and is a risk to herself and she is sectioned for her own safety.

    I'm worried because as her periods of stability are increasing with the right medication regimen and support she has will her benefits payments decrease because without knowing her background she presents as an able person. Will the WCA take into account her vulnerability and her quick descent into psychosis without her medication for which she has been sectioned 6 times for so far.

    Will moving out of the family home into a supported living setting with continual staff support help with her benefit applications. Will that be taken into account?
    Originally posted by rebecca p
    The answer is no All you have to do is either gain enough points/pass the required descriptors.

    As an example, if you for any reason cannot get something out of the top pocket of a jacket or shirt/top using either hand.you will automatically go into the Support Group.
    • nannytone
    • By nannytone 12th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    • 12,203 Posts
    • 18,114 Thanks
    nannytone
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    The answer is no All you have to do is either gain enough points/pass the required descriptors.

    As an example, if you for any reason cannot get something out of the top pocket of a jacket or shirt/top using either hand.you will automatically go into the Support Group.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    there are no support group 'points'
    it is based solely on meeting at least one of the descriptors
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Mar 17, 8:45 PM
    • 1,482 Posts
    • 1,580 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:45 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:45 PM
    ESA support group descriptors here:
    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

    I would have thought regulation 35 may be applicable:
    "The substantial risk rules are very important – they are one of the most common ways that
    claimants are placed in the support group.
    You will be treated as having limited capability for work-related activities if:
    ‘you suffer from some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement and, by reasons of
    such disease or disablement; there would be a substantial risk to the mental or physical
    health of any person if you were found not to have limited capability for work-related activity’.
    This is almost identical to one of the exceptional circumstances for the work-related activity
    group (regulation 29) except that now you need to show that you would have to refrain from
    ‘work-related activity’ rather than actual work.
    This could include things such as attending a Jobcentre or Work Programme provider’s office
    regularly, work experience, training, group activities, doing tasks online. "

    See also http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception
    "For reg 29 (or reg 35- see below) to apply then the risk to health must be “substantial”. In assessing whether a risk is substantial, regard should be had both to the likelihood of an occurrence and the nature of the harm that might result in the event of an occurrence. In one Upper Tribunal case, an increase in the frequencies of exacerbations of pain was sufficient to count as substantial harm."

    I would suggest compiling medical evidence (especially around significant risk) to submit with any ESA renewal form, and getting help with the form (particularly as the form does not ask the question about significant risk to health).
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-we-provide-advice/advice/

    The B & W guide is useful on ESA on mental health grounds:
    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-claims

    PS Nannytone's comment about the rockingbilly post is correct. You would be sensible to treat some of the posters on this forum with great caution.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 12-03-2017 at 9:09 PM.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 12th Mar 17, 8:47 PM
    • 10,566 Posts
    • 19,608 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:47 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 8:47 PM
    Yes as above.. she would need to meet a support group descriptor (and that conveys a benchmark of 'limited capability for work related activity'). It is possible that she may qualify for support group (other than by standard descriptor) from one of the non functional descriptors (otherwise called special circumstances) in that it sounds like she may pose substantial risk to anybody (herself or another) if found capable of work or work related activity.


    But yes... there is WRAG and Support group... two benchmarks of disability if you like... there's plenty info out there on the criteria including in above post (which cross posted with mine with interestingly correlating advice Re: special circumstances). Good luck.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
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