Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • boatman
    • By boatman 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 3,171Posts
    • 2,209Thanks
    boatman
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us 12th Mar 17 at 11:42 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
Page 6
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    The State pension isn't paid automatically - it has to be claimed. I'd like to think that really wealthy people (despite the higher levels of taxation they have been subjected to) won't claim it, but I'm sure some people - ie, Cherie Blair - will claim it!
    Originally posted by Silvertabby
    And Bob Geldorf, the pop singer who made his millions from poverty.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • Marisco
    • By Marisco 13th Mar 17, 3:24 PM
    • 28,251 Posts
    • 77,960 Thanks
    Marisco
    If you don't mind me asking, did you vote for the current government? And would you vote for a government that promised to end the triple lock on pensions?
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    No I didn't vote for the Tories, I'm a lifelong Labour voter, although now I'm in a bit of a fix regarding who to vote for, as I don't rate Corbyn at all, I think he has been a disaster for the Labour party.

    That depends on which party proposes it and what their other policies were. I'm not against doing away with it though, I'm also in favour of means testing WFA, bus passes etc, although I'm told means testing would cost too much, so just give them to those claiming pension credits, that requires no means testing.

    I think a case could be made for means testing the state pension as well, with maybe a 40k income as a start? I know all the arguments against i.e penalise thrift/saving etc, but if the object is to save money then everything has to be considered.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 13th Mar 17, 3:26 PM
    • 25,356 Posts
    • 31,653 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Good thing about the wealthy is that they pay their NI but mostly use private schools/medical care. Bonus for the low paid.
    Millies next back in July.
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 13th Mar 17, 3:47 PM
    • 3,871 Posts
    • 28,580 Thanks
    SandraScarlett
    I frequently ask this question, whenever a thread turns into Baby Boomers Bashing time - but it is never answered by the Bashers. So, once more, I will ask them. What would you like us BBs to do now, that would please you?


    You don't want to hear that when we were children, we didn't have much in the way of possessions, or that we had ice inside our bedroom windows. Our stories of sky high interest rates are ignored, and we are made to feel guilty that we had jobs, and paid taxes and made NI contributions.


    A frequent Basher suggested that anyone who had a Private Pension in addition to their SRP, must be rich and when I explained that I have 2 that yield under a tenner a week each, there was a deafening silence, as usual.


    We frequently help younger family members, both financially and with our time, and we help prop up society with our unpaid voluntary work, and still we are bashed.


    As a 9 year old, I was thrilled to receive luminous lime green socks on my birthday, together with a new Alice Band, in much the same way as a 9 year old today would be thrilled to receive the latest phone, or other gadget. It just depends on when you were born, and your family's finances.


    It is not our fault that we were born when we were, no more than it is your fault when you were born, but there's a lot of us and we're here, which seems to irritate a lot of people, so please tell me, what can we do that will please you, now?
    • evenasus
    • By evenasus 13th Mar 17, 4:02 PM
    • 7,825 Posts
    • 17,056 Thanks
    evenasus
    So do plenty of poor families. So why should one group have that income increased at government expense, while another group has it cut in the name of austerity?

    In a thread full of people claiming that young people's problems are that they all want the latest iPhone or holiday abroad rather than willing to sacrifice to save a deposit for a house, where is the criticism of older people who want to continue to live in a 3 bedroom house but want the taxpayer to fund the rocketing costs of heating it in the winter?
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    Me and my husband live in a 4 bedroom house but the heating isn't funded by the taxpayer, as the WFA is passed onto the younger members of my family, who are far more in need of it than we are.
    I do think the WFA should be means tested. In which case we wouldn't receive it.
    The time for saving for a house deposit, is before you marry/live together/have children.
    Save for what you want to buy
    .
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 4:09 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    I frequently ask this question, whenever a thread turns into Baby Boomers Bashing time - but it is never answered by the Bashers. So, once more, I will ask them. What would you like us BBs to do now, that would please you?


    You don't want to hear that when we were children, we didn't have much in the way of possessions, or that we had ice inside our bedroom windows. Our stories of sky high interest rates are ignored, and we are made to feel guilty that we had jobs, and paid taxes and made NI contributions.


    A frequent Basher suggested that anyone who had a Private Pension in addition to their SRP, must be rich and when I explained that I have 2 that yield under a tenner a week each, there was a deafening silence, as usual.


    We frequently help younger family members, both financially and with our time, and we help prop up society with our unpaid voluntary work, and still we are bashed.


    As a 9 year old, I was thrilled to receive luminous lime green socks on my birthday, together with a new Alice Band, in much the same way as a 9 year old today would be thrilled to receive the latest phone, or other gadget. It just depends on when you were born, and your family's finances.


    It is not our fault that we were born when we were, no more than it is your fault when you were born, but there's a lot of us and we're here, which seems to irritate a lot of people, so please tell me, what can we do that will please you, now?
    Originally posted by SandraScarlett
    If you are working, give up your job to a young person. Sell your house at a 1970s price or maybe for just enough to buy you a bedsit. Sell it to a young poor person. Don't let the sight of their Iphone fool you into thinking they are not poor. If you have any sort of private pension then don't claim your state pension. Refuse the winter fuel allowance. Pay for all your sight tests and prescriptions. Don't whatever you do claim a bus pass. Don't live past 65. Better still, if euthanasia is available, put your name down.
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 13-03-2017 at 4:11 PM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 13th Mar 17, 4:46 PM
    • 1,216 Posts
    • 2,560 Thanks
    Londonsu
    So do plenty of poor families. So why should one group have that income increased at government expense, while another group has it cut in the name of austerity?

    In a thread full of people claiming that young people's problems are that they all want the latest iPhone or holiday abroad rather than willing to sacrifice to save a deposit for a house, where is the criticism of older people who want to continue to live in a 3 bedroom house but want the taxpayer to fund the rocketing costs of heating it in the winter?
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid

    A couple of pages ago I showed the calculation I took from the tax credit site showing what a young family could get now as apposed to what my dad got raising a family in the 50s .


    In the 50s my dad worked 3 jobs to feed and clothe me and my sister, this is how it worked.


    We would get up at 7 am dad was coming in from his night job spent about 1/2 hour with us and then went to bed for a couple of hours and then worked job no 2 until about 3, when we got home from school we had to be quiet because he was in bed for another couple of hours, he got up at 6pm spent an hour with us and then straight to job no 3 after job 3 it was straight to job no 1 and then back home at 7am and so it continued for 6 days a week, he slept most of Sunday so we couldn't have friends over to play in case we disturbed him but we understood dad had to work, and now looking back I don't feel I lost out I only feel a sense of pride that he gave us a better life through his own efforts and TBH his work ethic has filtered down to me and all our family.


    It took me a few years to realise that when we went to my nan and granddads in the school holidays the reason why dad woke us up at 11 on a Saturday night to drive to Suffolk leave us and mum there and go straight back is that way he only lost one nights pay and could sleep when he got back ready for the next weeks hard graft. He got no benefits only family allowance and that was just for me the first child didn't qualify


    dad actually ended up working for 70 years so for about 20 he was paying tax on his pension and on his wages, he still didn't claim anything apart form his pension, it was only two years ago at the age of 84 he finally had to give up work due to having a dicky ticker and dodgy hip ( I suspect both were not helped by his job as a cleaner heaving industrial carpet cleaners around )


    Now if he was a young dad with two kids and a non working wife he would only need to work 1 job at 30 hours a week NLW to claim the best part of £900 quid every 4 weeks in TC and CTC. You talk about austerity pensioners like my old dad could teach you a lot about austerity.
    Last edited by Londonsu; 13-03-2017 at 4:57 PM.
    • Marisco
    • By Marisco 13th Mar 17, 4:48 PM
    • 28,251 Posts
    • 77,960 Thanks
    Marisco
    If you are working, give up your job to a young person. Sell your house at a 1970s price or maybe for just enough to buy you a bedsit. Sell it to a young poor person. Don't let the sight of their Iphone fool you into thinking they are not poor. If you have any sort of private pension then don't claim your state pension. Refuse the winter fuel allowance. Pay for all your sight tests and prescriptions. Don't whatever you do claim a bus pass. Don't live past 65. Better still, if euthanasia is available, put your name down.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha

    Now, funny you should say that. Oh has a friend who is rich as Creosus, and he likes doing up houses, then sells them. I said to oh why doesn't he sell them cheap, possibly half price to a young couple who is struggling to buy. If I didn't need the money to buy somewhere else, that is what I would do. He's not married, no kids, and his brother is even richer, and older (multi millionaire) than he is!!

    TBH I see nowt wrong in the bolded bits, if you don't need it, don't claim it. If you can pay your way without hardship, then I don't see why you shouldn't.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 5:07 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    Now, funny you should say that. Oh has a friend who is rich as Creosus, and he likes doing up houses, then sells them. I said to oh why doesn't he sell them cheap, possibly half price to a young couple who is struggling to buy. If I didn't need the money to buy somewhere else, that is what I would do. He's not married, no kids, and his brother is even richer, and older (multi millionaire) than he is!!

    TBH I see nowt wrong in the bolded bits, if you don't need it, don't claim it. If you can pay your way without hardship, then I don't see why you shouldn't.
    Originally posted by Marisco
    It feels though as if the bashers on the thread would like everyone to do that. The only thing I don't claim is the bus pass as we have a car and I can't justify it.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 13th Mar 17, 5:20 PM
    • 2,646 Posts
    • 2,813 Thanks
    always_sunny
    A couple of pages ago I showed the calculation I took from the tax credit site showing what a young family could get now as apposed to what my dad got raising a family in the 50s .

    In the 50s my dad worked 3 jobs to feed and clothe me and my sister, this is how it worked.
    Originally posted by Londonsu
    What is the point of bringing up a scenario that happened in 1950??
    It is 67 years ago, whoever lived those events, by those standard would not longer be with us to tell us first hand.

    How was life 67 years before that then? Do you think we should be kept it at that what was in 1880? What about 67 years earlier? Early 1800? I hope you're not a woman and not on a second marriage or with a child out of wedlock cause if we keep going back you would have been stoned before getting your wisdom teeth.

    At what age do you think folks should say, 'you know what, time I let a younger generation make decisions cause I am not longer going to be directly impacted much longer'?
    Expat here with an EU passport.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 5:27 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    What is the point of bringing up a scenario that happened in 1950??
    It is 67 years ago, whoever lived those events, by those standard would not longer be with us to tell us first hand.

    How was life 67 years before that then? Do you think we should be kept it at that what was in 1880? What about 67 years earlier? Early 1800? I hope you're not a woman and not on a second marriage or with a child out of wedlock cause if we keep going back you would have been stoned before getting your wisdom teeth.

    At what age do you think folks should say, 'you know what, time I let a younger generation make decisions cause I am not longer going to be directly impacted much longer'?
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    The problem is the younger generation are making the decisions and its not going too well.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • always_sunny
    • By always_sunny 13th Mar 17, 5:37 PM
    • 2,646 Posts
    • 2,813 Thanks
    always_sunny
    The problem is the younger generation are making the decisions and its not going too well.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha
    Where?
    What is the average age of an MP?
    The average age of MPs elected at the 2015 General Election is 50.
    At the last election, in 2010, the average age of an MP was also 50.


    But the reality is that it's more highly likely that the younger generation will end up living through the decisions that they haven't been able to make! This has always been the case, including for those all so full of ideas oldies who seems it's great idea to bring back benefits of 60+ years ago!
    Expat here with an EU passport.
    • Marisco
    • By Marisco 13th Mar 17, 5:45 PM
    • 28,251 Posts
    • 77,960 Thanks
    Marisco
    It feels though as if the bashers on the thread would like everyone to do that. The only thing I don't claim is the bus pass as we have a car and I can't justify it.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha
    But if they can afford it, with no hardship to themselves, why not?
    • ukcarper
    • By ukcarper 13th Mar 17, 5:53 PM
    • 11,139 Posts
    • 11,571 Thanks
    ukcarper
    And a lot of homeowners also made huge windfall profits from their endowment policies which often not only paid off the mortgage but also often paid out as much, or more, again.

    Then the double whammy that they also benefitted from the demutualisation of the bank/building society/insurance firm which left them with a few thousand pounds of shares just because they luckily happened to have their mortgage and/or endowment with a firm that demutualised/listed on the stock exchange.

    That's another two factors that gave lucky windfalls to the current pensioner generation - nothing to do with how hard they worked or how poor their parents were or how they had no gadgets. Just pure luck at being born at the right time and riding the property inflation wagon at the right time. Things that are simply no longer available to current younger generation.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Or as in my case and lots of others there was a big shortfall.

    As for house prices it depends when you bought prices in 70s when I bought just under 5x earnings now just under 6x
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 13th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    • 8,177 Posts
    • 6,372 Thanks
    Andy L
    Oh and John Major, Norman Lamont & Gordon Brown robbing the private pension pots which is still costing tax payers *insert amount here* every year.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    lets be fair & share the blame out where it's due
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 5:59 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    But if they can afford it, with no hardship to themselves, why not?
    Originally posted by Marisco
    Agreed but would there not be a slippery slope? I.e if you own your house you are not entitled to a State Pension? As bugslet said where would be the incentive to work and save?
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 6:13 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    Where?
    What is the average age of an MP?
    The average age of MPs elected at the 2015 General Election is 50.
    At the last election, in 2010, the average age of an MP was also 50.


    But the reality is that it's more highly likely that the younger generation will end up living through the decisions that they haven't been able to make! This has always been the case, including for those all so full of ideas oldies who seems it's great idea to bring back benefits of 60+ years ago!
    Originally posted by always_sunny
    Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit here? Or at least the bashers on this thread (for want of a better name) claim that we all had it easy 60 years ago.

    We voted for Leave because we want to bring back some of the better aspects of life before the EU, not the harsh conditions or the lack of modern technology but the freedom, the controlled immigration, the power of British law, the ability for a working class person in an ordinary job to buy a house.

    Young people have only known the EU so they have no idea what life was like before and therefore could not have a full concept of what they were voting for. We were trying to save you from yourselves. You may have no respect for the opinion of older people who have lived a long life but I would say ignore them at your peril.

    Incidentally I would not say that 50 is old. Do you want to live in some kind of Hunger Games world where its survival of the fittest, because that is where we are headed?
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 13-03-2017 at 6:17 PM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • Londonsu
    • By Londonsu 13th Mar 17, 6:16 PM
    • 1,216 Posts
    • 2,560 Thanks
    Londonsu
    What is the point of bringing up a scenario that happened in 1950??
    It is 67 years ago, whoever lived those events, by those standard would not longer be with us to tell us first hand.

    How was life 67 years before that then? Do you think we should be kept it at that what was in 1880? What about 67 years earlier? Early 1800? I hope you're not a woman and not on a second marriage or with a child out of wedlock cause if we keep going back you would have been stoned before getting your wisdom teeth.

    At what age do you think folks should say, 'you know what, time I let a younger generation make decisions cause I am not longer going to be directly impacted much longer'?
    Originally posted by always_sunny

    ERR, how do you make that out I am still alive to recount living by those standards and so is my 86 year old dad, I actually said in the 50s not 1950, I was born in 1955 I am still working and paying tax and NI in fact there are plenty of people alive and kicking whose lives were just the same, I wasn't the only child in my class whose dad worked all the hours God sent in fact most of the working class kids in the council estate where I grew up had dads and often mums who worked just as long and as hard because there were no state hand outs to enable them to work part time like there is now.


    I fully intend love to be around for quite some time and until I join the choir invisible I will be paying tax into this country and while I am still paying in I have just as much right to have a say in how this country is run and what my tax is being used for.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 6:25 PM
    • 15,802 Posts
    • 41,179 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    ERR, how do you make that out I am still alive to recount living by those standards and so is my 86 year old dad, I actually said in the 50s not 1950, I was born in 1955 I am still working and paying tax and NI in fact there are plenty of people alive and kicking whose lives were just the same, I wasn't the only child in my class whose dad worked all the hours God sent in fact most of the working class kids in the council estate where I grew up had dads and often mums who worked just as long and as hard because there were no state hand outs to enable them to work part time like there is now.


    I fully intend love to be around for quite some time and until I join the choir invisible I will be paying tax into this country and while I am still paying in I have just as much right to have a say in how this country is run and what my tax is being used for.
    Originally posted by Londonsu
    Even if you are not paying in you still have a right as a citizen of this country. The way we brought these children up in a child centred society has given them a sense of entitlement and they have turned on us. To say that older people should not be entitled to a vote or a say sounds like the beginning of the end of democracy.

    The thing is when these young people were born, did they just suddenly wake up and think everything was there just for them? Where did they think it all came from, the houses, the roads, sliced bread? Did it just appear on its own?

    It was people who worked in coal mines that made the wealth in this country, people who worked in steelworks and the young are benefiting from it, from all the hard work that was put in.. Yet all they want is someone to blame like the children they are. All they do is moan about what they don't have. We lived in a world where if you wanted something you had to go and out work for it. Can you imagine a kid of 15 today having to go down a coalmine or to work in a steelworks? Can you imagine a kid of that age getting up at 5am to start work at 6? Well, that's what our generation did.

    If these same people woke up in Somalia or someplace with nothing there, who would they blame for a lack of a civilisation to live in?
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 13-03-2017 at 6:53 PM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • ukcarper
    • By ukcarper 13th Mar 17, 6:26 PM
    • 11,139 Posts
    • 11,571 Thanks
    ukcarper
    Let's nip this one in the bud. You don't get out of it what you put into it. That suggests that the money you put into it was placed in an investment fund for your retirement. What you actually did was paid the money, which was then spent immediately by the governments you voted for. You paid in on the promise that you would be given the taxes of future generations. Which is fine. Your contributions went to pay for the pensions of the previous generations, and now our contributions go to pay for the pensions of your generation. That's how the worlds works.

    However, we now have a situation where this contract between young people, working people and the retired seems to have broken down. First, you voted away your responsibilities to educate the next generation (not you personally). Now you might point to demographic changes and more people going to university making it untenable, but you could equally argue that record numbers of pensioners make the current pension scheme untenable too. We could solve that problem by bringing in working-aged people from overseas, but your generation overwhelmingly voted to close our borders (also preventing young people from having the opportunity you've had your entire life to live and work anywhere in Europe). Now you've repeatedly voted for a government that will inflict austerity on working people safe in the knowledge that not only will you be unaffected, but you'll actually see an increase in your income in the same period, paid for by the rest of us. If you can't see the fundamental unfairness of that, then there's something wrong.

    Obviously, I have no problem with public pensions, but this idea that they are completely ring fenced from the economic realities of the world is ridiculous. If austerity is necessary, it should be necessary for everyone. I wonder how much austerity would have happened if it was necessary to hit the public pension as much as they've hit working people. But obviously they would never do that, because that's their core vote.
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    Yes boomers voted 3 to 2 to leave but the they turned out to vote in numbers, if younger people had turned out in the same numbers we probably wouldn't be leaving now.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

590Posts Today

5,540Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • Just seen @IvoGraham doing stand up in a comedy club. Superb, witty, self depricating, clever stuff. Go see him if you get the chance

  • RT @ChrissyNunn: New one from @Tesco today.. "The sale of Goods Act is just legislation, it's like a guideline, it's not law" @MartinSLewis?

  • Off to Torremolinos? I'm filming my roadshow there next Fri 28th during the day then in Branigans at 5pm. Want to come? Let @itvmlshow know

  • Follow Martin