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  • FIRST POST
    • boatman
    • By boatman 12th Mar 17, 10:42 AM
    • 3,100Posts
    • 2,112Thanks
    boatman
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 10:42 AM
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us 12th Mar 17 at 10:42 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
Page 4
    • Sleazy
    • By Sleazy 12th Mar 17, 6:25 PM
    • 3,799 Posts
    • 3,305 Thanks
    Sleazy
    What is a baby boomer?
    Originally posted by decbel
    I think it might be a mini 'Ghetto Blaster'
    Signed Sleazy
    Otherwise known as the Lounge Lizard
    • latest flame
    • By latest flame 12th Mar 17, 6:38 PM
    • 275 Posts
    • 618 Thanks
    latest flame
    What is a baby boomer?
    Originally posted by decbel
    A person with the ability to use the new fangled google thingamabob.
    • tensandunits
    • By tensandunits 12th Mar 17, 6:56 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 704 Thanks
    tensandunits
    What is a baby boomer?
    Originally posted by decbel
    The resultant boom in the population when the men came home from the war. Generally, people born from around the mid 40s to the mid 50s.
    • BobQ
    • By BobQ 12th Mar 17, 7:08 PM
    • 9,100 Posts
    • 11,758 Thanks
    BobQ
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
    Originally posted by boatman
    I notice that after firing off this purile post you have not been back..

    You are right the boomer generation stood up and protested. Your generation is far more compliant, but where has it got you?

    All generations have their challenges. Thiers was to get better pay rises and working conditions in an era of inflation and high unemployment and rising house prices. It was also to care for the well being of their parents and grandparents. Your challenges are different, you have been inculcated with the me-first culture, but instead of whinging, try and do something costructive to make society better for everyone.

    The number of houses in this country worth over £500K is smaller than you think. 50% of UK houses cost less than £213K
    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 12th Mar 17, 7:25 PM
    • 1,326 Posts
    • 1,828 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    Can't say you personally have ruined anyones life but you only need to watch TV programmes such as "Homes under the Hammer" where people buy up properties at auction ,spend £2k giving it a slap of paint and replace the kitchen laminate worktops only to then place the house back on the market with an increased price tag of £40k or more.

    Chap opposite us bought a small 2 bedroom bungalow at auction for £130k , decorated inside and replaced the laminate worktops in the kitchen (spent £1k tops) and sold it for £194k 5 months later. I know exactly what work he carried out because I helped look after the old lady that owned the property before he bought it.

    If a man turned up at a pensioners house and offered to cut a tree down in the garden for £500 when in fact it should have only cost £250 people would be in uproar. Make £64k profit on a house sale in 5 months for doing zip all and thats a fair profit. Hypocrisy right there....

    Many of these people are complete DIY novices, have no idea about doing the job properly but do have the money to outbid first time buyers.

    I speak from having 32 years experience as a Carpenter & Joiner so the whole "renovation and sell on " industry has caused damage to the younger generation as a whole, bit like BTL.

    As I said, not against you personally but more of an opinion on the industry and what we all regard as being "fair".........
    Originally posted by Private Church
    ok I'm intrigued, Did he buy below market value or sell over it?

    Who on earth valued it £64k higher after new worktops and a lick of paint?

    I presume he got his solicitor to work for free on buying and selling too, and paid no council tax or utilities. The selling estate agent didn't charge anything either. Presumably you work for nothing too as his time obviously has no value. I'm guessing he didn't update the electrics, plumbing, kitchen or bathroom yet managed a great profit. Strange that never happens to me.

    A typical project involves a full rip out, loads of new sockets, probably a new fire, work on the heating system, new bathroom, new kitchen, new carpets and fully decorate.

    With my business partner AFTER costs (that are real and do actually exist) we make about £10k each for four months work. I made more working for someone else but its very rewarding doing a good job.

    And you'll never guess, but first time buyers who baulked at the hideous wreck we bought often buy them as a first home. Dreadful I know, the harm we do.
    • tommix
    • By tommix 12th Mar 17, 11:34 PM
    • 33,837 Posts
    • 137,931 Thanks
    tommix
    What is a baby boomer?
    Originally posted by decbel
    A 'remoob ybab' spelt backwards.
    • Running Horse
    • By Running Horse 13th Mar 17, 5:09 AM
    • 10,224 Posts
    • 18,701 Thanks
    Running Horse
    Well, this discussion went as expected, just as all the other boomer discussions do. My own lazy stereotyping on the issue is that the young were most likely to vote to stay in the EU, which has directly encouraged millions of new immigrants. Ever wondered why you can't afford to buy or even rent a place of your own? Clue; it's got nothing to do with pensioners who didn't have to compete with millions of immigrants for their housing.
    The people have spoken, Parliament has voted, we are leaving the EU.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Mar 17, 5:47 AM
    • 4,825 Posts
    • 24,618 Thanks
    bugslet
    The resultant boom in the population when the men came home from the war. Generally, people born from around the mid 40s to the mid 50s.
    Originally posted by tensandunits
    It's supposed to be 1945 - 1965. I was born in '64 and I suspect my generation found things vastly different to those born in '45.

    Ultimately we are all just people tryiing to get along and I get fed up of these types of posts.
    • JackieO
    • By JackieO 13th Mar 17, 7:50 AM
    • 14,492 Posts
    • 114,516 Thanks
    JackieO
    This subject has been done to death on this board. However, OP you were brought up in comfort in a world of central heating, technology, double glazing, educational opportunities, plentiful food, foreign holidays or at least holidays, car rides everywhere, after school activities. You were brought up in a child centred world, a world that was created for you by the very people you despise. Those hated people built up the infrastructure of this country from the ruins of WWII to what it is today.

    It may not be a perfect world but your childhood cannot be compared to someone's from the 50s, 60s or 70s. You didn't wake up to frost on the inside of your bedroom window, a cold bare floor, and no hot water. Your teachers didn't cane you because you forgot your homework or copied the wrong words from the board and you didn't get another battering from your parents when you got home. If you were unlucky enough to be among the few that did then that was called abuse and you could phone Childline or tell someone in authority. You were allowed a voice at home and in the classroom, you had rights. You didn't have to leave school at 15 and go into employment to help support your family.

    All of these privileges were very nice for you and others but the problem is that they have had the unfortunate effect of giving young people a sense of entitlement. Its not enough that you have had educational opportunities, laid back teachers, unlimited technology, comfort all your life, you expect the easy ride for the rest of your lives.

    The so called baby boomers took advantage of what opportunities were available to them at the time, as you will do today. They cannot be blamed for the disastrous decisions of progressive governments. Yes, they voted for them but that's what you do. You have the three main choices Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat. You listen to their election pledges and hope that they make a good job of it. I always voted Labour, which in those days was the party that best represented the workers. I have come to think though, that there is not much difference between the three parties when they are in government.

    As for pensions, I've said this before - we 'baby boomers' outnumbered the old age pensioners of our day. Most of us were in full employment all of our lives so we paid our contributions in full - hardly any benefits as there are nowadays and the interest rates were sky high. Therefore I would like to know what happened to all that surplus money. If there are no funds for pensions nowadays then its not our fault if the governments squandered it because we paid it in.

    Therefore you are blaming the wrong people for the state of the housing market, and the pensions and everything else. We were a generation that looked after our young and put them on a pedestal. However, at some point you do expect those young people to grow up and fend for themselves.

    As someone else on this thread mentioned, the young are still the lucky ones because very many of them will inherit the fruits of all the baby boomers' hard graft and that is without lifting a finger. Everything that I own is what I and my husband have worked for. Coming from working class families, neither of us has inherited a penny but my children will divide the spoils between them. I know of a young person who didn't work at school and has a low quality job who inherited his grandparents' bungalow, his wife's grandmother's house, and his wife's parents' house. They still have the other parents' house to come.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha

    One of the best posts on here, I am 74 and have been through many changes in my life I have no illusions about the 1940s-50s onwards

    Life was so different to today and I certainly wouldn't want it to return. I have seven grandchildren One is at Uni, another is married with a house of their own saved for over several years The eldest is working in New York,married and paying $4.000 per month rent .He is earning very good money so he can afford it.

    A granddaughter is a qualified teacher and she does moan about the price of houses etc but if she stopped visiting Bluewater and buying the latest car ,Iphone and assorted clothes and gadgets she would perhaps be able to,but no its easier for her to live at home and not have the worry or upkeep of a mortgage .

    At her age of 24 I was married with two children and a large mortgage and very little money

    Of the three youngest, at 17 one is in 6th form and working hard for his A levels so he can go to Uni next year He also works Saturday and Sunday washing up at a cafe to buy his own clothes.

    The two youngest are still at school at 12 and 15 but to earn cash they have to do chores around the house .Luckily their Mum (my youngest DD) won't let them become a burden, and the boys have all had the work ethic instilled into them

    Everything I have including my house I have worked and paid for I have never signed on in my life and always grafted for my crust.

    When I shuffle off my house (certainly not worth half a million ) will be divided between my two DDs .what they do with it is up to them I shall be long past caring.

    My generation saw war,rationing low wages and high inflation but we didn't have that 'entitlement' feeling that seems to be around today

    Our parents and grandparents had it much worse than we did and when I left school at 14 I went to work and paid my 'keep' to my Mum to help out, as did most of my contemporaries

    Today often youngsters do pay their 'keep' at all and think its a strange way to carry on.

    My parents and grandparents went through two world wars and extreme hardship like never imagined by today's young people .

    So if I live too long then tough , My late OH lived for less than 5 years after he retired, and his private pension sadly was lost when Robert Maxwell fell off his luxury yacht.All the years he paid in meant nothing and he received nothing .Luckily we had always bee sensible with money and managed to save towards our old age but I feel no guilt because I live in my own bought and paid for house, and I am warm and well fed I have a reasonable lifestyle and don't buy things I can't afford and have a terror of credit so I live within my means

    The poster sounds like a very immature person to be whinging on all the time .
    You want something get of your backside and work and save for it as millions of other people have done over the years
    Quot Libra,Quam Breve Tempus.
    Love Food, Hate Waste, for Lent.
    Spent so far this month £3.78 second spend today bringing my total for the month to £25.13
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 13th Mar 17, 7:57 AM
    • 21,343 Posts
    • 54,426 Thanks
    pollypenny
    Well said, Jackie!
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • I'm With Stupid
    • By I'm With Stupid 13th Mar 17, 8:56 AM
    • 5,903 Posts
    • 11,356 Thanks
    I'm With Stupid
    Well at 67 let me tell these 'ignorant' young people, I and many others of my age left school at 15 and have worked, paid, and still paying my taxes, National insurance and paid into a private pension in readiness for my retirement. NO ONE SUPPLEMENTS me. I get out of the system the money I put into it.
    Originally posted by martinthebandit
    Let's nip this one in the bud. You don't get out of it what you put into it. That suggests that the money you put into it was placed in an investment fund for your retirement. What you actually did was paid the money, which was then spent immediately by the governments you voted for. You paid in on the promise that you would be given the taxes of future generations. Which is fine. Your contributions went to pay for the pensions of the previous generations, and now our contributions go to pay for the pensions of your generation. That's how the worlds works.

    However, we now have a situation where this contract between young people, working people and the retired seems to have broken down. First, you voted away your responsibilities to educate the next generation (not you personally). Now you might point to demographic changes and more people going to university making it untenable, but you could equally argue that record numbers of pensioners make the current pension scheme untenable too. We could solve that problem by bringing in working-aged people from overseas, but your generation overwhelmingly voted to close our borders (also preventing young people from having the opportunity you've had your entire life to live and work anywhere in Europe). Now you've repeatedly voted for a government that will inflict austerity on working people safe in the knowledge that not only will you be unaffected, but you'll actually see an increase in your income in the same period, paid for by the rest of us. If you can't see the fundamental unfairness of that, then there's something wrong.

    Obviously, I have no problem with public pensions, but this idea that they are completely ring fenced from the economic realities of the world is ridiculous. If austerity is necessary, it should be necessary for everyone. I wonder how much austerity would have happened if it was necessary to hit the public pension as much as they've hit working people. But obviously they would never do that, because that's their core vote.
    • I'm With Stupid
    • By I'm With Stupid 13th Mar 17, 9:07 AM
    • 5,903 Posts
    • 11,356 Thanks
    I'm With Stupid
    My generation saw war,rationing low wages and high inflation but we didn't have that 'entitlement' feeling that seems to be around today
    Originally posted by JackieO
    Where is the evidence of this entitlement feeling? Let's just say compare the amount of days lost to strike in your generation compared to mine.

    Young people today largely get on with their jobs. But they also like to point out that the majority of their wages goes on paying to live in a vastly overpriced house that they will never own, and they are seeing reductions in their standard of living during their lifetime. And that's the key thing. Your generation, for all of the hardships, saw your standard of living increase immeasurably during your lifetime. The next generation is seeing the opposite.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 9:43 AM
    • 15,753 Posts
    • 41,091 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    Where is the evidence of this entitlement feeling? Let's just say compare the amount of days lost to strike in your generation compared to mine.

    Young people today largely get on with their jobs. But they also like to point out that the majority of their wages goes on paying to live in a vastly overpriced house that they will never own, and they are seeing reductions in their standard of living during their lifetime. And that's the key thing. Your generation, for all of the hardships, saw your standard of living increase immeasurably during your lifetime. The next generation is seeing the opposite.
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    So is that the fault of the previous generation? I think its more the fault of the government who refuse to build any more houses. The reason they refuse to build them is to keep house prices inflated. If there is a shortage of something then the price goes up.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • evenasus
    • By evenasus 13th Mar 17, 9:49 AM
    • 7,804 Posts
    • 17,007 Thanks
    evenasus
    I am 74 and have been through many changes in my life I have no illusions about the 1940s-50s onwards.....
    Originally posted by JackieO
    An excellent post! I can identify with a lot of what you've said.
    The time for saving for a house deposit, is before you marry/live together/have children.
    Save for what you want to buy
    .
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 13th Mar 17, 9:56 AM
    • 8,450 Posts
    • 14,835 Thanks
    Pennywise
    So is that the fault of the previous generation? I think its more the fault of the government who refuse to build any more houses. The reason they refuse to build them is to keep house prices inflated. If there is a shortage of something then the price goes up.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha
    More the fault of the nimbys (usually older house owners) who don't want new estates built near them.

    We're having a massive estate built in our small village. Some of the nimby objection letters from nearby OAPs were truly ridiculous. "The new estate will spoil my view", "the housing will stop my from exercising my dog as I can't walk to another field", "I'll end up having to wait longer for doctor appointments". Every single one was "me me me" - talk about selfish. Not a single objection on the basis of lack of places in the school (because they were all oldies and don't understand or care about those with children). Funny thing is that many were living on an estate built in the 80s, and I remember at the time, the local residents objecting about that estate using the same selfish arguments.
    Last edited by Pennywise; 13-03-2017 at 10:02 AM.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 10:00 AM
    • 15,753 Posts
    • 41,091 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    Let's nip this one in the bud. You don't get out of it what you put into it. That suggests that the money you put into it was placed in an investment fund for your retirement. What you actually did was paid the money, which was then spent immediately by the governments you voted for. You paid in on the promise that you would be given the taxes of future generations. Which is fine. Your contributions went to pay for the pensions of the previous generations, and now our contributions go to pay for the pensions of your generation. That's how the worlds works.

    However, we now have a situation where this contract between young people, working people and the retired seems to have broken down. First, you voted away your responsibilities to educate the next generation (not you personally). Now you might point to demographic changes and more people going to university making it untenable, but you could equally argue that record numbers of pensioners make the current pension scheme untenable too. We could solve that problem by bringing in working-aged people from overseas, but your generation overwhelmingly voted to close our borders (also preventing young people from having the opportunity you've had your entire life to live and work anywhere in Europe). Now you've repeatedly voted for a government that will inflict austerity on working people safe in the knowledge that not only will you be unaffected, but you'll actually see an increase in your income in the same period, paid for by the rest of us. If you can't see the fundamental unfairness of that, then there's something wrong.

    Obviously, I have no problem with public pensions, but this idea that they are completely ring fenced from the economic realities of the world is ridiculous. If austerity is necessary, it should be necessary for everyone. I wonder how much austerity would have happened if it was necessary to hit the public pension as much as they've hit working people. But obviously they would never do that, because that's their core vote.
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    Yes our contributions did pay their pensions but there were a lot less of them than us due to WWII and the rise in births after the war and also as a rule pensioners died at a younger age than we do. So with almost full employment the money we paid in was surplus to requirements and along with the sky high interest rates at that time there should have been an enormous pension pot put by to help fund today's pensioners. However, that is not the case, the money was squandered.

    The birth rate has gone down dramatically so eventually the situation would have evened itself out with far less pensioners to fund in the future. Unfortunately, though, this will not happen because of the immigration that has taken place in recent years.

    Some bright person came up with the idea that the solution to the pension problem was to import millions of migrants into this country. Unfortunately, that person was not forward thinking enough to realise that the millions of migrants will get old too and will expect a pension. So what do we do? Kick them all out of the country? I don't think so. The solution is to bring in more and more migrants ad infinitum. Problem is we then have a problem with resources and a lack of houses and who gets the blame for that? The older generation of course.
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 13-03-2017 at 10:05 AM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • Marisco
    • By Marisco 13th Mar 17, 10:01 AM
    • 28,002 Posts
    • 77,187 Thanks
    Marisco
    Where is the evidence of this entitlement feeling? Let's just say compare the amount of days lost to strike in your generation compared to mine.

    Young people today largely get on with their jobs. But they also like to point out that the majority of their wages goes on paying to live in a vastly overpriced house that they will never own, and they are seeing reductions in their standard of living during their lifetime. And that's the key thing. Your generation, for all of the hardships, saw your standard of living increase immeasurably during your lifetime. The next generation is seeing the opposite.
    Originally posted by I'm With Stupid
    Then it's about time the government (of any color) grasped that particular hot nettle and did something about it. That could involve rent caps, having a price cap on what people can sell their house for, vastly curb the BTL market, take all rented property in to state ownership, i.e make all rentals "council houses". Or alternatively, build millions of proper affordable homes, flood the market and collapse it.

    I'm sick to death of the BB's getting blamed for every dammed thing that's gone wrong. We just lived our lives as best we could, we *didn't imagine that medical science would advance so far that the NHS would cost billions and billions every year, that people would live longer but no healthier, costing god knows what in care, that automation would do away with a lot of jobs and nearly all labour intensive factories, shipbuilders, mines etc would disappear.

    We couldn't imagine the internet and all that entails i.e online shopping, banking etc, leading to less jobs. Mass immigration, that have changed some places out of all recognition, and all the extra benefits there are available now, which cost billions per year. We didn't see all that, we just got on with it, paid what we were asked.

    We had nowt when we first got married, and I had nowt when my marriage went pete tong, but I clawed my way up - again, so I make no bloody apology for what I have now, my oh still pays tax, so all those whinging about the BB's can go and do one! I hope you moan at your parents/grandparents as well mind!
    • I'm With Stupid
    • By I'm With Stupid 13th Mar 17, 10:05 AM
    • 5,903 Posts
    • 11,356 Thanks
    I'm With Stupid
    So is that the fault of the previous generation? I think its more the fault of the government who refuse to build any more houses. The reason they refuse to build them is to keep house prices inflated. If there is a shortage of something then the price goes up.
    Originally posted by tesuhoha
    Which benefits people who already own a home. There's a reason that the Daily Mail and Express are obsessed with house prices, because they know their demographic. Obviously very little of the problems in any country are down to individual people of a particular generation, other than through the actions of the governments they elect. But that's not nothing. The only reason we still have the triple lock pension, for example, is because the government knows it would lose them enough votes to be a dangerous policy.

    Governments choose to focus on policies that will be popular, and because of demographics, and also the shameful voting records of younger people (their own fault), this has been skewed in favour of older people for a long time. Governments know that they can screw over young people without consequence. And it doesn't have to be screwing over, just prioritising spending in a particular way. If you had enough money to either offer free childcare or free nursing homes for the elderly, which one would you go for? For years, building affordable homes for young families has not been a priority because it hasn't been a vote winner. If you're already on the property ladder, high house prices are actually good for you.

    I couldn't find the statistics for the UK, but in America, millennials are actually overtaking baby boomers in numbers, so we might see a shift in the near future. If only they'll actually get out and vote.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 13th Mar 17, 10:07 AM
    • 15,753 Posts
    • 41,091 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    More the fault of the nimbys (usually older house owners) who don't want new estates built near them.

    We're having a massive estate built in our small village. Some of the nimby objection letters from nearby OAPs were truly ridiculous. "The new estate will spoil my view", "the housing will stop my from exercising my dog as I can't walk to another field", "I'll end up having to wait longer for doctor appointments". Every single one was "me me me" - talk about selfish. Not a single objection on the basis of lack of places in the school (because they were all oldies and don't understand or care about those with children). Funny thing is that many were living on an estate built in the 80s, and I remember at the time, the local residents objecting about that estate using the same selfish arguments.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    If the government wanted to build new estates then that wouldn't stop them We have one built near us. There was a massive protest (which I did not take part) but it still went ahead on schedule.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • I'm With Stupid
    • By I'm With Stupid 13th Mar 17, 10:16 AM
    • 5,903 Posts
    • 11,356 Thanks
    I'm With Stupid
    Then it's about time the government (of any color) grasped that particular hot nettle and did something about it. That could involve rent caps, having a price cap on what people can sell their house for, vastly curb the BTL market, take all rented property in to state ownership, i.e make all rentals "council houses". Or alternatively, build millions of proper affordable homes, flood the market and collapse it.

    I'm sick to death of the BB's getting blamed for every dammed thing that's gone wrong. We just lived our lives as best we could, we *didn't imagine that medical science would advance so far that the NHS would cost billions and billions every year, that people would live longer but no healthier, costing god knows what in care, that automation would do away with a lot of jobs and nearly all labour intensive factories, shipbuilders, mines etc would disappear.

    We couldn't imagine the internet and all that entails i.e online shopping, banking etc, leading to less jobs. Mass immigration, that have changed some places out of all recognition, and all the extra benefits there are available now, which cost billions per year. We didn't see all that, we just got on with it, paid what we were asked.

    We had nowt when we first got married, and I had nowt when my marriage went pete tong, but I clawed my way up - again, so I make no bloody apology for what I have now, my oh still pays tax, so all those whinging about the BB's can go and do one! I hope you moan at your parents/grandparents as well mind!
    Originally posted by Marisco
    If you don't mind me asking, did you vote for the current government? And would you vote for a government that promised to end the triple lock on pensions?
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