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  • FIRST POST
    • boatman
    • By boatman 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 3,171Posts
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    boatman
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us 12th Mar 17 at 11:42 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
Page 2
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 12th Mar 17, 12:41 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 2,023 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    Probably just a year or two below the boomer age band myself but here's my 2p worth....

    I left school when he 3 million unemployment figure was around. It wasn't easy getting a job and you had to work really hard and take the crap. Plenty of others ready to step in. Nobody was going to fund you if you chose to do nothing, not the state and certainly not your family.

    A used car was an aspiration. One holiday a year was a luxury. I saved a 10k deposit on a house costing £40k because mortgage rates were so high it still meant paying £330 per month on a 30k loan.

    I joined the pension scheme at age 21 (not allowed to join any younger) and paid in for 28 yrs until made redundant. I now run my own business renovating property. I have contributed £20k for deposits for homes for my 2 kids, some help I never got.

    I am looking forward to my employment pension, the state pension I haven't really considered. Firstly its not paid until I'm 67 so still 15 years away, and secondly its relatively modest and subject to possibly more changes and deductions before I get it.

    I have moved house once, the windfall in property gains was offset by the new house costing more, yes my home is worth a decent wedge but we live in it.

    What exactly have I ruined for anyone?
    Last edited by Mr.Generous; 12-03-2017 at 12:44 PM.
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 12th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    'I remember having a similar conversation at home and it took my mum a week to come back to me and realise that really, she is taking out more than what she put in'

    But everything have got more expensive over the years, suppose that's just the way things go. I bet when those in the 20s, 30's and 40's become pensioners, even with Possible reforms to pensions etc, they are likely to get back more then they put in!
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 12:43 PM
    • 25,358 Posts
    • 31,658 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    And a lot of homeowners also made huge windfall profits from their endowment policies which often not only paid off the mortgage but also often paid out as much, or more, again.

    Then the double whammy that they also benefitted from the demutualisation of the bank/building society/insurance firm which left them with a few thousand pounds of shares just because they luckily happened to have their mortgage and/or endowment with a firm that demutualised/listed on the stock exchange.

    .
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    Neither of which affected us, and probably lots more, in fact we had to chase the bank because the promised return on the endowment was going to be nearly 10k short. Luckily we had converted part to a repayment.
    Millies next back in July.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 12:53 PM
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    • 31,658 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
    Originally posted by boatman
    Having relooked at the OP it occurs to me that the problem of housing is not so much that the pensioners don't want to move out of the home they have spent a great portion of their lives in but the age of the BTL landlords. A goodly percentage seem to be the same age of the op. Its the younger BTL landlords which are increasing the prices of and reducing the availability of suitable houses for sale. So don't blame the oldies for the own goal.
    Millies next back in July.
    • Mr.Generous
    • By Mr.Generous 12th Mar 17, 12:57 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 2,023 Thanks
    Mr.Generous
    Good point re endowments, our "tax free lump sum" amounted to a £12k shortfall too. We had decided to make capital repayments some years earlier instead of spending it on other things. Life is full of choices. I blame the Victorians, they spoilt it for my dads generation ...
    • HornetSaver
    • By HornetSaver 12th Mar 17, 1:12 PM
    • 1,372 Posts
    • 2,070 Thanks
    HornetSaver
    The difference between a poor pensioner and someone receiving JSA is that a higher percentage of poor pensioners had the opportunity to turn things around before getting to that stage.

    Why should I have sympathy for a generation who idolised some of the most heinous criminals in British history (be that the ones they liked too much to take allegations against seriously, or indeed a few who were worshipped for being criminals), yet in general treat anyone who happens to find themselves on out of work benefits, regardless of reason, in the way they should have treated said individuals? For a generation too young to claim credit for the war, but the right age to do so for the folly that followed? For the generation which is hypocritical enough to embrace Thatcherism (some at the time, more in hindsight) and still vote right-leaning (nowt wrong with that, in and of itself), yet is now in staunch favour of the most expensive socialist programme in this country's history? For the generation responsible for allowing the miss-selling of credit to be as easy as selling an electrical appliance? For the generation which spent its entire adult life crying about interest rates (completely ignoring the fact that inflation made these rates a pittance), yet has decided to pillage its successors by refusing to countenance the idea of preventing eye watering real-terms rises in house prices we've seen for most of the past quarter centry?

    Yes, you can't tarnish everyone with the same brush, but almost all the statements I use refer to a healthy majority, albeit a slightly different one in different cases.
    I'm standing by my pre-referendum prediction: "Brexit will lead to a recession"

    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70662330
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 12th Mar 17, 1:15 PM
    • 3,630 Posts
    • 2,642 Thanks
    Glen Clark
    Generally speaking the old have got a better deal because they are more likely to vote. Fair? I dunno - if the young can't be bothered to vote perhaps they get the politicians they deserve?
    For society to function well, people generally need to feel that they have a fair chance of success through their ability and efforts. The more entrenched hereditary elites we have, the less likely people are to feel that way
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 1:15 PM
    • 25,358 Posts
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    peter_the_piper
    Who are "the heinous criminals" that you refer to?
    Millies next back in July.
    • Vicky123
    • By Vicky123 12th Mar 17, 1:19 PM
    • 2,628 Posts
    • 7,855 Thanks
    Vicky123
    And a lot of homeowners also made huge windfall profits from their endowment policies which often not only paid off the mortgage but also often paid out as much, or more, again.

    Then the double whammy that they also benefitted from the demutualisation of the bank/building society/insurance firm which left them with a few thousand pounds of shares just because they luckily happened to have their mortgage and/or endowment with a firm that demutualised/listed on the stock exchange.

    That's another two factors that gave lucky windfalls to the current pensioner generation - nothing to do with how hard they worked or how poor their parents were or how they had no gadgets. Just pure luck at being born at the right time and riding the property inflation wagon at the right time. Things that are simply no longer available to current younger generation.
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    All that may be so but how many actually planned ahead knowing this is the way things would pan out from the start? I know my parents may have many fine attributes but canny financial planning wouldn't be on the list so we can't lay blame as such, it was just very fortuitous that they were around when housing was cheap(ish), many of today's generation would do exactly the same. It's all about timing and a dollop of good fortune rather than some kind of master plan to rob future generations.
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Mar 17, 1:25 PM
    • 25,358 Posts
    • 31,658 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    Good point re endowments, our "tax free lump sum" amounted to a £12k shortfall too. We had decided to make capital repayments some years earlier instead of spending it on other things. Life is full of choices. I blame the Victorians, they spoilt it for my dads generation ...
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    Nah, it was alright before that invader killed Harold. Darn it I just realised we were on the winning side.
    Millies next back in July.
    • Marisco
    • By Marisco 12th Mar 17, 1:32 PM
    • 28,256 Posts
    • 77,997 Thanks
    Marisco
    Who are "the heinous criminals" that you refer to?
    Originally posted by peter_the_piper
    Yes I was wondering that as well. The only one who comes to mind is Jimmy Saville, but what he has to do with the subject of the thread I don't know!
    • Glen Clark
    • By Glen Clark 12th Mar 17, 1:32 PM
    • 3,630 Posts
    • 2,642 Thanks
    Glen Clark
    House prices have risen so much because the landlord class in Government have craftily put local Nimbys in charge of planning decisions, ensuring not enough homes will be built to meet the demand.
    The biggest beneficiaries of rising property prices are not necessarily baby boomers. The Duke of Westminster has just inherited £10 billion pounds worth tax free - and he is only 25. Wheras many older people are still paying rent to him.
    For society to function well, people generally need to feel that they have a fair chance of success through their ability and efforts. The more entrenched hereditary elites we have, the less likely people are to feel that way
    • tensandunits
    • By tensandunits 12th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 919 Thanks
    tensandunits
    They were a very lucky generation, those born in the late 40s, but I don't hold it against them. I would have enjoyed the same opportunities had I been born at that time, and I would made the most of them, too.
    • latest flame
    • By latest flame 12th Mar 17, 2:09 PM
    • 704 Posts
    • 1,358 Thanks
    latest flame
    I'm 61 my kids are in their twenties, I'd swap with either of them.

    One has been on a charity run this morning and is currently out with her mum for lunch. The other is climbing Scafell Pike.
    Both have cars (one of them has two), both have holidays, bikes, computers, laptops, smartphones etc etc. Luckily they aren't whingeing moaners.
    • tommix
    • By tommix 12th Mar 17, 2:28 PM
    • 34,014 Posts
    • 138,431 Thanks
    tommix
    OP, why d'you even give a toss? Why begrudge the elderly a few extra bottles of Stout? Lifes too short to worry about such trifling matters.

    Go treat yourself to new IPhone and leave the elderly in peace to enjoy their last days on earth listening to max bygraves..
    • Private Church
    • By Private Church 12th Mar 17, 2:31 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 229 Thanks
    Private Church


    I joined the pension scheme at age 21 (not allowed to join any younger) and paid in for 28 yrs until made redundant. I now run my own business renovating property. I have contributed £20k for deposits for homes for my 2 kids, some help I never got.
    Originally posted by Mr.Generous
    Can't say you personally have ruined anyones life but you only need to watch TV programmes such as "Homes under the Hammer" where people buy up properties at auction ,spend £2k giving it a slap of paint and replace the kitchen laminate worktops only to then place the house back on the market with an increased price tag of £40k or more.

    Chap opposite us bought a small 2 bedroom bungalow at auction for £130k , decorated inside and replaced the laminate worktops in the kitchen (spent £1k tops) and sold it for £194k 5 months later. I know exactly what work he carried out because I helped look after the old lady that owned the property before he bought it.

    If a man turned up at a pensioners house and offered to cut a tree down in the garden for £500 when in fact it should have only cost £250 people would be in uproar. Make £64k profit on a house sale in 5 months for doing zip all and thats a fair profit. Hypocrisy right there....

    Many of these people are complete DIY novices, have no idea about doing the job properly but do have the money to outbid first time buyers.

    I speak from having 32 years experience as a Carpenter & Joiner so the whole "renovation and sell on " industry has caused damage to the younger generation as a whole, bit like BTL.

    As I said, not against you personally but more of an opinion on the industry and what we all regard as being "fair".........
    Last edited by Private Church; 12-03-2017 at 3:10 PM.
    • lessonlearned
    • By lessonlearned 12th Mar 17, 2:32 PM
    • 9,346 Posts
    • 52,694 Thanks
    lessonlearned
    I'm 61 my kids are in their twenties, I'd swap with either of them.

    One has been on a charity run this morning and is currently out with her mum for lunch. The other is climbing Scafell Pike.
    Both have cars (one of them has two), both have holidays, bikes, computers, laptops, smartphones etc etc. Luckily they aren't whingeing moaners.
    Originally posted by latest flame
    Same here..........

    I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

    And......knowing what I know now, I'd be worth millions by the time I came to retire.
    • latest flame
    • By latest flame 12th Mar 17, 2:41 PM
    • 704 Posts
    • 1,358 Thanks
    latest flame
    Same here..........

    I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

    And......knowing what I know now, I'd be worth millions by the time I came to retire.
    Originally posted by lessonlearned
    Buy Poseidon 1969.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 12th Mar 17, 2:47 PM
    • 15,805 Posts
    • 41,190 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    This subject has been done to death on this board. However, OP you were brought up in comfort in a world of central heating, technology, double glazing, educational opportunities, plentiful food, foreign holidays or at least holidays, car rides everywhere, after school activities. You were brought up in a child centred world, a world that was created for you by the very people you despise. Those hated people built up the infrastructure of this country from the ruins of WWII to what it is today.

    It may not be a perfect world but your childhood cannot be compared to someone's from the 50s, 60s or 70s. You didn't wake up to frost on the inside of your bedroom window, a cold bare floor, and no hot water. Your teachers didn't cane you because you forgot your homework or copied the wrong words from the board and you didn't get another battering from your parents when you got home. If you were unlucky enough to be among the few that did then that was called abuse and you could phone Childline or tell someone in authority. You were allowed a voice at home and in the classroom, you had rights. You didn't have to leave school at 15 and go into employment to help support your family.

    All of these privileges were very nice for you and others but the problem is that they have had the unfortunate effect of giving young people a sense of entitlement. Its not enough that you have had educational opportunities, laid back teachers, unlimited technology, comfort all your life, you expect the easy ride for the rest of your lives.

    The so called baby boomers took advantage of what opportunities were available to them at the time, as you will do today. They cannot be blamed for the disastrous decisions of progressive governments. Yes, they voted for them but that's what you do. You have the three main choices Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat. You listen to their election pledges and hope that they make a good job of it. I always voted Labour, which in those days was the party that best represented the workers. I have come to think though, that there is not much difference between the three parties when they are in government.

    As for pensions, I've said this before - we 'baby boomers' outnumbered the old age pensioners of our day. Most of us were in full employment all of our lives so we paid our contributions in full - hardly any benefits as there are nowadays and the interest rates were sky high. Therefore I would like to know what happened to all that surplus money. If there are no funds for pensions nowadays then its not our fault if the governments squandered it because we paid it in.

    Therefore you are blaming the wrong people for the state of the housing market, and the pensions and everything else. We were a generation that looked after our young and put them on a pedestal. However, at some point you do expect those young people to grow up and fend for themselves.

    As someone else on this thread mentioned, the young are still the lucky ones because very many of them will inherit the fruits of all the baby boomers' hard graft and that is without lifting a finger. Everything that I own is what I and my husband have worked for. Coming from working class families, neither of us has inherited a penny but my children will divide the spoils between them. I know of a young person who didn't work at school and has a low quality job who inherited his grandparents' bungalow, his wife's grandmother's house, and his wife's parents' house. They still have the other parents' house to come.
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 12-03-2017 at 3:17 PM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
    • tesuhoha
    • By tesuhoha 12th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
    • 15,805 Posts
    • 41,190 Thanks
    tesuhoha
    Can't say you personally have ruined anyones life but you only need to watch TV programmes such as "Homes under the Hammer" where people buy up properties at auction ,spend £2k giving it a slap of paint and replace the kitchen laminate worktops only to then place the house back on the market with an increased price tag of £40k or more.

    Chap opposite us bought a small 2 bedroom bungalow at auction for £130k , decorated inside and replaced the laminate worktops in the kitchen (spent £1k tops) and sold it for £194k 5 months later. I know exactly what work he carried out because I helped look after the old lady that owned the property before he bought it.

    If a man turned up at a pensioners house and offered to cut a tree down in the garden for £500 when in fact it should have only cost £250 people would be in uproar. Make £64k profit on a house sale in 5 months for doing zip all and thats a fair profit. Hypocrisy right there....

    Many of these people are complete DIY novices, have no idea about doing the job properly but do have the money to outbid first time buyers.

    I speak from having 32 years experience as a Carpenter & Joiner so the whole "renovation and sell on " industry has caused damage to the younger generation as a whole, bit like BTL.

    As I said, not against you personally but more of an opinion on the industry.
    Originally posted by Private Church
    But surely if you had the money and the opportunity, you would do the same. You wouldn't think, no I don't want to inflate the housing market. You would be off to the auction - wouldn't you?

    There are young people renovating properties for profit or having houses bought for them. You cannot blame it all on the baby boomers.
    Last edited by tesuhoha; 12-03-2017 at 3:25 PM.
    The forest would be very silent if no birds sang except for the birds that sang the best

    The best kept secret is an open secret.

    A vacuum is nature's default state.
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