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  • FIRST POST
    • boatman
    • By boatman 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
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    boatman
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us
    • #1
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    Babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us 12th Mar 17 at 11:42 AM
    There is a lot in the media about pensioners struggling. But given they were the ones demanding higher and higher pay, going on strike every 5 minutes, opening the door to cheap foreign imports. Do they have a right to complain from their half a million pound houses when the young can't buy a house?
Page 10
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 16th Mar 17, 2:12 PM
    • 15,042 Posts
    • 21,372 Thanks
    antrobus
    ..As to offshore companies, the government could have followed countries like Australia, and outlawed transfer pricing and repatriation of profits years ago. Well, in Australia's case, decades ago. ..
    Originally posted by dktreesea
    Australia has not outlawed transfer pricing. It does however seek to ensure that transfer prices between related parties are caluclated in in accordance with the "arm's length principle". Just like everybody else.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/International-tax-for-business/In-detail/Transfer-pricing/International-transfer-pricing---introduction-to-concepts-and-risk-assessment/

    Australia has also signed up to the OECD's transfer pricing documentation standards. The first two countries to do so were Spain, and the good old UK.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/12/budget-confirms-30-multinationals-face-tax-avoidance-crackdown
    • fussypensioner
    • By fussypensioner 16th Mar 17, 2:14 PM
    • 2,515 Posts
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    fussypensioner
    I think it comes down to realising that you are in, on the whole, a good position. Many young people today are saddled with debt before they start working, you can argue its their choice to go to uni, but the fact is the majority now go, so to have a chance in the workplace you probably have to go. The pay compared with house prices are by historical standards very different. The employer pensions are taking a larger amount of salary than before, perhaps pointing to the fact that not enough was put aside in previous generations.

    Many people are of the opinion that, I have paid into the system, now I want my monies worth.
    The fact is, the money babyboomers have paid does not cover costs, so having things like triple lock, winter fuel, prescriptions, free bus pass and many other benefits cannot be paid for by the current generation. All the money you paid in while working was spent many years ago. I know its like turkeys voting for Christmas, but perhaps you need to accept that many of the perks you currently receive cannot be afforded. What did your parents receive apart from their pension, not a lot else I would suspect, and this is what your payments at the time were paying for, not your perks now. I doubt the amount paid in pays for the NHS, let alone anything else.

    The other problem is that for many years, big companies have stripped the country by moving money offshore, robbing the country of huge amounts of income.
    Originally posted by boatman
    We do realise that some of us are in a good position, that's because there have been numerous threads on this subject with monotonous regularity.

    As for the other benefits:

    WFP is payable, not only to pensioners but to others claiming - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support. WFP is paid because of the high cost of fuel and we are usually at home during the winter and not keeping toasty warm courtesy of an employer in a cosy office.

    Bus passes need to be applied for and not everyone does. Its probably those people who don't have a nice car and have to get to the shops and hospital appointments which need to apply.

    Free prescriptions/eye test, once again this is available to those on a low income, pregnant women, under 16's and 16-18 yrs in full time education, not just pensioners. As for the triple lock, it will be scrapped no doubt, but please remember the cost of living is the same for pensioners as it is for working people, you will probably get a pay rise.

    So next time you want to start a thread with a sweeping generalisation and immature title "babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us" make sure you do your homework.

    BTW you did happen to mention in your last paragraph that big companies have robbed this country of huge amounts of income - good point, but that is not the only reason.
    Holding back the years...
    • Pyxis
    • By Pyxis 16th Mar 17, 2:44 PM
    • 28,893 Posts
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    Pyxis
    As regards the mortgage to income ratio, from my memory, although my first mortgage took a lot of my net income, other costs were, I think, relatively higher than they are now.

    Food was proportionately more expensive, as was beer and wine, and spirits were very expensive. White goods were out of my reach, as were cars. Brand new furniture was just a dream, even on credit. I was 26 when I got my first, rather modest hifi, an Amstrad!

    The point is that I scraped, made do, ate cheap food, went without, shivered in the cold, walked and lugged heavy bags everywhere, didn't have holidays etc. for so many years, that I'm blowed if I'm going to feel guilty now that I can have the central heating on longer because my asthma is making me wheezy.
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    • Murphybear
    • By Murphybear 16th Mar 17, 4:21 PM
    • 3,173 Posts
    • 6,578 Thanks
    Murphybear
    We do realise that some of us are in a good position, that's because there have been numerous threads on this subject with monotonous regularity.

    As for the other benefits:

    WFP is payable, not only to pensioners but to others claiming - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support. WFP is paid because of the high cost of fuel and we are usually at home during the winter and not keeping toasty warm courtesy of an employer in a cosy office.

    Bus passes need to be applied for and not everyone does. Its probably those people who don't have a nice car and have to get to the shops and hospital appointments which need to apply.

    Free prescriptions/eye test, once again this is available to those on a low income, pregnant women, under 16's and 16-18 yrs in full time education, not just pensioners. As for the triple lock, it will be scrapped no doubt, but please remember the cost of living is the same for pensioners as it is for working people, you will probably get a pay rise.

    So next time you want to start a thread with a sweeping generalisation and immature title "babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us" make sure you do your homework.

    BTW you did happen to mention in your last paragraph that big companies have robbed this country of huge amounts of income - good point, but that is not the only reason.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    Free prescriptions are available to everyone over 60, not just pensioners so a Company Director aged 60 on a massive salary can get them free.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 16th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • 29,366 Posts
    • 54,827 Thanks
    seven-day-weekend
    We do realise that some of us are in a good position, that's because there have been numerous threads on this subject with monotonous regularity.

    As for the other benefits:

    [B]WFP is payable, not only to pensioners but to others claiming - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support. [/B]WFP is paid because of the high cost of fuel and we are usually at home during the winter and not keeping toasty warm courtesy of an employer in a cosy office.

    Bus passes need to be applied for and not everyone does. Its probably those people who don't have a nice car and have to get to the shops and hospital appointments which need to apply.

    Free prescriptions/eye test, once again this is available to those on a low income, pregnant women, under 16's and 16-18 yrs in full time education, not just pensioners. As for the triple lock, it will be scrapped no doubt, but please remember the cost of living is the same for pensioners as it is for working people, you will probably get a pay rise.

    So next time you want to start a thread with a sweeping generalisation and immature title "babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us" make sure you do your homework.

    BTW you did happen to mention in your last paragraph that big companies have robbed this country of huge amounts of income - good point, but that is not the only reason.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    That's the Cold Weather Payment, which is different to the Winter Fuel Allowance: https://www.gov.uk/cold-weather-payment/overview

    Only people of State Pension age (at the moment this goes by the female age wjhilst we are even-ing it up) get the Winter Fuel Allowance https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/overview

    Hope this helps.;
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 16-03-2017 at 6:46 PM.
    To love someone is to learn the song in their heart and to sing it to them when they have forgotten it
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    St. Augustine — 'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.'
    • fussypensioner
    • By fussypensioner 16th Mar 17, 7:39 PM
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    fussypensioner
    That's the Cold Weather Payment, which is different to the Winter Fuel Allowance: https://www.gov.uk/cold-weather-payment/overview

    Only people of State Pension age (at the moment this goes by the female age wjhilst we are even-ing it up) get the Winter Fuel Allowance https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/overview

    Hope this helps.;
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend

    This is where I read it. I must admit I don't know a lot about the benefits system and I had to look it up. I suppose you could argue that those born before 1953 might not be on JSA for example.


    How Much You Will Get for Winter Fuel Payment Heating Allowance

    If you were born on or before 5th May 1953......(But are not 80yrs old yet)

    If you live alone, or with other people who do NOT qualify, then you will get £200.00

    If you get one of these benefits - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support - you will get £200.00

    If you live with someone else who qualifies - and they are under 80 - you will get £100.00 (Because they will also be getting some payment!)

    If you live with someone else who is over 80, and they qualify for Winter Fuel Payment - you will get £100.00

    If you live with your partner - or civil partner and they get one of the following benefits - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support - You will not get Winter Fuel Payment. This is because THEY will be getting the full winter fuel payment for your household.

    If you live in a care home, and DON'T get any of these benefits - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support - you will get £100.00


    Hope this helps.
    Holding back the years...
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 16th Mar 17, 7:50 PM
    • 29,366 Posts
    • 54,827 Thanks
    seven-day-weekend
    It appears as though you DO have to be of female State Pension age. You might not actually be entitled to your own SRP however.....if you are a man not yet 65....so you could be on one of those other benefits.

    So we are both right.
    To love someone is to learn the song in their heart and to sing it to them when they have forgotten it
    'I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because I see everything by it': C.S. Lewis
    St. Augustine — 'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.'
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 16th Mar 17, 8:25 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    I think it comes down to realising that you are in, on the whole, a good position. Many young people today are saddled with debt before they start working, you can argue its their choice to go to uni, but the fact is the majority now go, so to have a chance in the workplace you probably have to go. The pay compared with house prices are by historical standards very different. The employer pensions are taking a larger amount of salary than before, perhaps pointing to the fact that not enough was put aside in previous generations.

    Many people are of the opinion that, I have paid into the system, now I want my monies worth.
    The fact is, the money babyboomers have paid does not cover costs, so having things like triple lock, winter fuel, prescriptions, free bus pass and many other benefits cannot be paid for by the current generation. All the money you paid in while working was spent many years ago. I know its like turkeys voting for Christmas, but perhaps you need to accept that many of the perks you currently receive cannot be afforded. What did your parents receive apart from their pension, not a lot else I would suspect, and this is what your payments at the time were paying for, not your perks now. I doubt the amount paid in pays for the NHS, let alone anything else.

    The other problem is that for many years, big companies have stripped the country by moving money offshore, robbing the country of huge amounts of income.
    Originally posted by boatman
    I have come to realise since reading such views as those above, to be misguided. It really isn't about older people having to accept what can be afforded etc! Goverment policy decides and has decided over the years who gets what!

    As for the NHS - its financial problems around funding is widespread and complexed where your view about baby boomers in this context, is inaccurate. There are many factors you need to consider as to why the NHS has become a big cash cow!

    Furthermore, we will ALL pay less for what we get when we are older, even if we don't get half of what the older generation get now. WHY? - because if we look at history the general trend is that most things get more expensive over the years. Let's hope the generations below us are not as begrudging when we are pensioners. I am sure you will have a very different perspective then to what you have now!

    Maybe you should put your energies into holding your government to account - stand up for the rights of your generation, instead of taking issues with those who are only getting what a decent society should provide for their older generations.

    However, I'm going to entertain your views before I sign off. Let's as you say all the 'perks' were stopped for older people - do you seriously think this would improve the quality for yours, mine and the younger generations lives?? I THINK NOT!!!

    There are lots of different groups that have a stake in our social security systems, NHS, housing that all impact on available resources!! This is why I am at a loss, as to why it is becoming more acceptable to just focus on the haves of older people as a reason for the have nots of others.
    Last edited by Sjc1973; 16-03-2017 at 11:04 PM.
    • Sjc1973
    • By Sjc1973 16th Mar 17, 8:57 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    Sjc1973
    Would it be a lose to not have Starbucks? There's plenty of others paying corporation tax. I hate their standard line of 'but we do pay lots of tax', yes, because you have avoided corp tax this has allowed you to expand rapidly and now they pretend they are adding to the economy by employing loads of people who pay tax, not the company..

    I don't blame the babyboomers for the cost of housing, merely to point out the huge difference in the pay/house price ratio then and now. Although I guess there is a link in a roundabout way I'm sure.
    Originally posted by boatman
    NO it certainly would not be a loss to me if we did not have STARBUCKS, there coffee is CRAAP
    • cyantist
    • By cyantist 16th Mar 17, 10:40 PM
    • 464 Posts
    • 1,038 Thanks
    cyantist
    Even so, there is a social contract in place when it comes to NI contributions. We agree that our NI contributions can be used to pay those claiming the state pension now, provided that, when we come to claim the state pension, we will still receive our due, paid for by workers from future generations.
    Originally posted by dktreesea
    My issue with this is that I (as a millennial -apparently) pay quite a lot of NI contributions yet I am acutely aware that by the time I retire there will be no state pension at least not how it is now. What makes it worse is that since they got rid of the reduction in NI contributions for paying into a workplace pension, my OH and I are over £2000 a year worse off and we can't afford this, especially as my work has a pay freeze.

    This isn't the fault of the babyboomer generation however, even if they did have it easier in many ways, they weren't the ones who made it that way. We can definitely blame the government for that.

    Free prescriptions/eye test, once again this is available to those on a low income, pregnant women, under 16's and 16-18 yrs in full time education, not just pensioners. As for the triple lock, it will be scrapped no doubt, but please remember the cost of living is the same for pensioners as it is for working people, you will probably get a pay rise.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    Pregnant women don't get free eye tests! I was surprised when I found this out.
    As for pay rises - more people I know are currently getting minimal or no rises than those who are getting a decent pay rise. And with the increases in NI contributions most of us are actually worse off on a monthly basis. It's terrible, I may only be able to afford 4 foreign holidays this year and may even have to give up one of my cars
    • Mrs_Ryan
    • By Mrs_Ryan 17th Mar 17, 12:21 AM
    • 10,209 Posts
    • 18,408 Thanks
    Mrs_Ryan
    I wish my parents were as tech savvy as some of you- mum has an iPad which dad (in his 70s with dementia) plays games on all day and uses as his Kindle. When I go home I usually have a ton of requests from them both to show them how to do something or another mum has a very basic mobile which she uses to make the odd call; she can't text. Dad and I have a joint Amazon account so I can help him when he needs help with his Kindle.
    Yet still I cannot operate their huge UHD TV I have an iPhone SE, a laptop, and various techy gadgets at home (I'm the only one who can operate our Hive heating system and our new ceramic hob, and I can troubleshoot for them no problem) and I can't operate my parents TV
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    • Pyxis
    • By Pyxis 17th Mar 17, 7:00 AM
    • 28,893 Posts
    • 105,718 Thanks
    Pyxis
    I wish my parents were as tech savvy as some of you- mum has an iPad which dad (in his 70s with dementia) plays games on all day and uses as his Kindle. When I go home I usually have a ton of requests from them both to show them how to do something or another mum has a very basic mobile which she uses to make the odd call; she can't text. Dad and I have a joint Amazon account so I can help him when he needs help with his Kindle.
    Yet still I cannot operate their huge UHD TV I have an iPhone SE, a laptop, and various techy gadgets at home (I'm the only one who can operate our Hive heating system and our new ceramic hob, and I can troubleshoot for them no problem) and I can't operate my parents TV
    Originally posted by Mrs_Ryan
    Has it got a manual? It's probably online though. If you've been through the manual, there's probably a help facility, even if it's only via FAQs, or a webchat facility.
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    • Kered
    • By Kered 17th Mar 17, 8:01 AM
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    Kered
    I have never understood exactly what a 'babyboomer' is or why the need to blame them for so many different things

    I worked all my days doing sometimes 4 different jobs at the same time to earn the money that I needed to live the life that I wanted to live. My parents helped when they could if I was really stuck, eg. back to work after a period of unemployment they bought me a banger to get me back on the road.

    I am now retired so I am not keeping anyone out of a job, I live a simple life with my pets in a house that is paid for with no-one to leave it to when I am gone.
    • Pyxis
    • By Pyxis 17th Mar 17, 9:40 AM
    • 28,893 Posts
    • 105,718 Thanks
    Pyxis
    It's interesting, because for years, I considered baby boomers to be those born in the immediate aftermath of WWII, ie up to 1948 or 1949, so I did not consider myself a baby boomer at all. It was only since being on MSE that I have heard the view that younger people are baby boomers too.

    However, Google is probably to blame, as, according to some sources, it's really only the Americans that the band 1945-1964 applies to, and that there are differences between American Boomers and British ones.

    After a short baby boom immediately after the war peaking in 1946, the United Kingdom experienced a second baby boom during the 1960s, with a peak in births in 1964, and a third, smaller boom peaking in 1990.
    Well, I wouldn't lump the 1960s UK surge in with immediate post-war surge.
    Last edited by Pyxis; 17-03-2017 at 9:46 AM.
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    X ~O
    • boatman
    • By boatman 17th Mar 17, 2:04 PM
    • 3,368 Posts
    • 2,354 Thanks
    boatman
    We do realise that some of us are in a good position, that's because there have been numerous threads on this subject with monotonous regularity.

    As for the other benefits:

    WFP is payable, not only to pensioners but to others claiming - Pension Credit, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Income Support. WFP is paid because of the high cost of fuel and we are usually at home during the winter and not keeping toasty warm courtesy of an employer in a cosy office.

    Bus passes need to be applied for and not everyone does. Its probably those people who don't have a nice car and have to get to the shops and hospital appointments which need to apply.

    Free prescriptions/eye test, once again this is available to those on a low income, pregnant women, under 16's and 16-18 yrs in full time education, not just pensioners. As for the triple lock, it will be scrapped no doubt, but please remember the cost of living is the same for pensioners as it is for working people, you will probably get a pay rise.

    So next time you want to start a thread with a sweeping generalisation and immature title "babyboomers ruined it for the rest of us" make sure you do your homework.

    BTW you did happen to mention in your last paragraph that big companies have robbed this country of huge amounts of income - good point, but that is not the only reason.
    Originally posted by fussypensioner
    You mention lots of benefits that not just pensioners can get, but the government have cracked down on many of those, they have not done the same for pensioners. I would never suggest taking money away from a couple on for example less than £20k perhaps, but there is no reason why many of those perks could not be reduced or even removed(the cost of implementing/maintaining that system is a whole new topic).
    As for the title, I guess it was to grab attention.
    • boatman
    • By boatman 17th Mar 17, 2:09 PM
    • 3,368 Posts
    • 2,354 Thanks
    boatman
    I have come to realise since reading such views as those above, to be misguided. It really isn't about older people having to accept what can be afforded etc! Government policy decides and has decided over the years who gets what!
    Originally posted by Sjc1973
    I was answering a question that asked what could be done now, I suggested that many of those perks are removed, it would save a lot of money.
    • dktreesea
    • By dktreesea 17th Mar 17, 2:48 PM
    • 5,552 Posts
    • 8,667 Thanks
    dktreesea
    Would it be a lose to not have Starbucks? There's plenty of others paying corporation tax. I hate their standard line of 'but we do pay lots of tax', yes, because you have avoided corp tax this has allowed you to expand rapidly and now they pretend they are adding to the economy by employing loads of people who pay tax, not the company..

    I don't blame the babyboomers for the cost of housing, merely to point out the huge difference in the pay/house price ratio then and now. Although I guess there is a link in a roundabout way I'm sure.
    Originally posted by boatman

    Yes indeed, what taxes to Starbucks actually pay? I never go there. They claim to pay VAT. Nonsense. They collect VAT from the end consumer and send it on to the government - not them paying tax at all. And as you say, they don't pay income tax - individuals do. Their roll, again, is tot collect the tax (PAYE) and return it onto HMRC.


    Thank goodness for British companies like Caf! Nero, not to mention Waitrose with their free, good quality, coffees for card holders (not credit cards - their card that is a bit like a nectar card.
    • dktreesea
    • By dktreesea 17th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
    • 5,552 Posts
    • 8,667 Thanks
    dktreesea
    My issue with this is that I (as a millennial -apparently) pay quite a lot of NI contributions yet I am acutely aware that by the time I retire there will be no state pension at least not how it is now. What makes it worse is that since they got rid of the reduction in NI contributions for paying into a workplace pension, my OH and I are over £2000 a year worse off and we can't afford this, especially as my work has a pay freeze.

    This isn't the fault of the babyboomer generation however, even if they did have it easier in many ways, they weren't the ones who made it that way. We can definitely blame the government for that.

    Pregnant women don't get free eye tests! I was surprised when I found this out.

    As for pay rises - more people I know are currently getting minimal or no rises than those who are getting a decent pay rise. And with the increases in NI contributions most of us are actually worse off on a monthly basis. It's terrible, I may only be able to afford 4 foreign holidays this year and may even have to give up one of my cars
    Originally posted by cyantist

    NI contributions don't just cover pensions. There would be plenty of us who have sadly had reason to use the services of the NHS during our working years, whose NI contributions would never cover the cost of the treatment. And many of us have been able to education our children for free. It's not as if we haven't had any benefits back for the NI and income tax we have paid.


    As for eye tests only being free to certain groups, of course that would be in England,

    Eye tests are free in Scotland, for everybody. It's a health and safety issue. There would be a lot more myopic drivers on Scotland's roads if they weren't free.


    It's about time NI contributions applied to the first £ earned in a week. I'd like to put a stop to all the businesses getting out of -paying employer and, on behalf of the employee, employee contributions, by only giving the person x number of hours to keep them under the threshold (£156 a week?) before NI contributions kick in. It's about time Westminster wised up to this and did something about it.
    • Pyxis
    • By Pyxis 17th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • 28,893 Posts
    • 105,718 Thanks
    Pyxis
    One thing that was rather strange about paying Employers' contributions of N.I. was that if you employed someone over pension age, they no longer paid N.I. contributions, because they were receiving their pension now, but the employer still had to pay the employers' contribution.

    Never did understand that.
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    • boatman
    • By boatman 17th Mar 17, 4:48 PM
    • 3,368 Posts
    • 2,354 Thanks
    boatman
    One thing that was rather strange about paying Employers' contributions of N.I. was that if you employed someone over pension age, they no longer paid N.I. contributions, because they were receiving their pension now, but the employer still had to pay the employers' contribution.

    Never did understand that.
    Originally posted by Pyxis
    I guess the employer had to pay because if they didn't, it would be cheaper to employ a pensioner, putting someone younger out of a job.
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