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  • FIRST POST
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 11th Mar 17, 10:18 PM
    • 7,720Posts
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    esuhl
    New flat MTB pedals (with reflectors)
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:18 PM
    New flat MTB pedals (with reflectors) 11th Mar 17 at 10:18 PM
    I have a half-decent mountain bike that I use both on- and off-road (mostly on the road, these days). I look after it, and it's definitely been worth upgrading the drivetrain, shifters, tyres, saddle, etc.

    When I bought it, I got cheapo flat metal commuter pedals, which have been okay. But I don't have anything to compare them to, so I'm wondering how much difference I'd notice with a slightly-more expensive upgrade...?

    Essentially, I know I want flat pedals (ideally with reflectors), but there are so many choices, with different designs and hugely different prices that I don't have a clue where to begin.

    Are pedals just pedals? How should I decide which ones would be "right" for me?!

    Any tips?
Page 1
    • zaax
    • By zaax 11th Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    • 1,798 Posts
    • 714 Thanks
    zaax
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:55 PM
    pedal clips so you can pull on the up stroke, as well as push on the down.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/clip-in-pedals/
    Do you want your money back, and a bit more, search for 'money claim online' - They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 11th Mar 17, 11:30 PM
    • 2,353 Posts
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    Johnmcl7
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:30 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:30 PM
    For me. it's important that I get a decent amount of grip - these are similar to what came with my hybrid (I think they're a knock off from older Shimano XT pedals):

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41uKxXLzgbL.jpg

    They were rubbish as the spiky edge didn't give much grip particularly in the wet which resulted in a bad pedal slip and those spiky edges made a painful mess of my shin. I now use a fairly large platform pedal similar to this:

    http://redlinebicycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pedal_FL-Mag.jpg

    These still have little pegs which would hurt in a pedal slip but I find the grip is good so that's not been an issue. Not light but I'm not fussed about saving a few grams on my bike.

    John
  • archived user
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 9:05 AM
    • #4
    • 12th Mar 17, 9:05 AM
    pedal clips so you can pull on the up stroke, as well as push on the down.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/clip-in-pedals/
    Originally posted by zaax
    "pull up on the stroke " That seems like extra hard work, I ve just strained to push down on the stroke surely I deserve a bit of a rest. Is that the way the pros manage to ride at 25mph ?
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 12th Mar 17, 10:07 AM
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    Norman Castle
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 10:07 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Mar 17, 10:07 AM
    I took the pedals off an accident damaged Specialised bike and noticed an improvement. Try stripping and greasing the pedals you have before replacing them.
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 12th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • 4,047 Posts
    • 2,335 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    "pull up on the stroke " That seems like extra hard work, I ve just strained to push down on the stroke surely I deserve a bit of a rest. Is that the way the pros manage to ride at 25mph ?
    Originally posted by House Martin
    It's more efficient to use clip-in pedals, that's why pros use them, pulling up on the cycle as well as pushing down gives more power. There are a wide variety from big to small but do take a bit of getting used to remembering to clip out when stopping to avoid falling over. I have speedplay frog on my commuter bike (switched from shimano spd-sl types) and they are easy to get out of.

    Clip-in don't normally have reflectors (though there are some hyrbid flat/clip in types that do) but these aren't really a big deal - I know the law says they are required but most bike shoes have reflective bits and the police are never going to pull you if you have proper lights and reflective clothing at night

    Pros ride at 25mph average because they're fit, trained and have fantastic bikes
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 12th Mar 17, 12:25 PM
    • 1,099 Posts
    • 593 Thanks
    wongataa
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:25 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Mar 17, 12:25 PM
    pedal clips so you can pull on the up stroke, as well as push on the down.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/clip-in-pedals/
    Originally posted by zaax
    With this sort of pedal you don't actually pull much on the up stroke, you actually just unweight the pedal on the upstroke. You can't add much more power by pulling up in reality either. It is also not the easiest thing to do.
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 12th Mar 17, 7:25 PM
    • 7,720 Posts
    • 5,508 Thanks
    esuhl
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 17, 7:25 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Mar 17, 7:25 PM
    For me. it's important that I get a decent amount of grip - these are similar to what came with my hybrid (I think they're a knock off from older Shimano XT pedals):

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41uKxXLzgbL.jpg

    They were rubbish as the spiky edge didn't give much grip particularly in the wet which resulted in a bad pedal slip and those spiky edges made a painful mess of my shin.
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    Those are almost identical to the ones I currently have!

    I've bashed my shins a couple of times, but mostly they've been fine. I think I'd like something with a bit more surface-area, though.

    I now use a fairly large platform pedal similar to this:

    http://redlinebicycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pedal_FL-Mag.jpg

    These still have little pegs which would hurt in a pedal slip but I find the grip is good so that's not been an issue. Not light but I'm not fussed about saving a few grams on my bike.
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    Ah -- and those are just the design I was thinking of buying. And it looks like you could attach reflectors to those ones, which is good.

    But there is such a huge choice. I presume the expensive ones have better bearings or are super-strong or super-light, but... practically that's not going to make much difference, is it?

    I have a pair of clipless Shimano SPD pedals, which came with the bike, but I like the convenience and flexibility of flats. I don't think I'd get on with them off-road... And it takes me ages to find shoes that fit properly.

    MTB shoes all seem quite expensive, and I don't know where I'd go to try on a decent range of different types.
    • somersethillbilly
    • By somersethillbilly 12th Mar 17, 9:17 PM
    • 504 Posts
    • 402 Thanks
    somersethillbilly
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 9:17 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Mar 17, 9:17 PM
    I have recently upgraded to these...Available in Black. Blue and Red.

    Wellgo BO87U Flat Pinned Platform 9/16" Bike Pedals with reflectors

    http://www.sdjsports.co.uk/b087u-black.html?___SID=U

    Very pleased with them
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 12th Mar 17, 11:09 PM
    • 2,353 Posts
    • 1,563 Thanks
    Johnmcl7
    Ah -- and those are just the design I was thinking of buying. And it looks like you could attach reflectors to those ones, which is good.

    But there is such a huge choice. I presume the expensive ones have better bearings or are super-strong or super-light, but... practically that's not going to make much difference, is it?

    I have a pair of clipless Shimano SPD pedals, which came with the bike, but I like the convenience and flexibility of flats. I don't think I'd get on with them off-road... And it takes me ages to find shoes that fit properly.

    MTB shoes all seem quite expensive, and I don't know where I'd go to try on a decent range of different types.
    Originally posted by esuhl
    There's a lot of copies of pedals and copies of those copies hence there's a lot that look much the same. Better pedals will have smoother bearings and be lighter as you've said, they also tend to be more serviceable as well. I wasted a lot of money on clipless pedals so just stuck some cheap £15 pedals on as a stopgap and they've been working fine so I've just stuck with them and stuck them on my other bikes as well.

    The Superstar Nano's get a lot of recommendations as good flat pedals, they're probably the ones I'd go for if I was going to spend a bit more:

    http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/nano-x-pedals.htm

    When you say MTB shoes are you meaning clipless or flats? For clipless pedals I went to a bike shop and tried the shoes there as I thought it was worth spending a bit more to get some that fit properly rather than buying online.

    For the flats I use Merrell walking shoes that I had already which I hadn't found great for walking but they've been good for cycling. They don't have laces so nothing to catch in the chain and the tread pattern fits well with the pedal spikes.

    John
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 13th Mar 17, 12:53 AM
    • 7,720 Posts
    • 5,508 Thanks
    esuhl
    There's a lot of copies of pedals and copies of those copies hence there's a lot that look much the same. Better pedals will have smoother bearings and be lighter as you've said, they also tend to be more serviceable as well. I wasted a lot of money on clipless pedals so just stuck some cheap £15 pedals on as a stopgap and they've been working fine so I've just stuck with them and stuck them on my other bikes as well.
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    Ah, thanks -- that's really helpful.

    The Superstar Nano's get a lot of recommendations as good flat pedals, they're probably the ones I'd go for if I was going to spend a bit more:

    http://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/nano-x-pedals.htm
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    Hmmm... interesting... thanks. I'll have a closer look.

    When you say MTB shoes are you meaning clipless or flats? For clipless pedals I went to a bike shop and tried the shoes there as I thought it was worth spending a bit more to get some that fit properly rather than buying online.
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    Yeah -- I meant ones you can fit cleats to. On the flats I just use normal trainers, which usually works well enough.

    The bike shops I've seen are fairly small and only have a handful (footful?) of shoes to try. And either they don't fit or they're insanely expensive.

    So that's part of the reason I'm happy to stick with flats. And I very often find myself having to jump off the pedals or put a foot down, as a reflex action. I just know I'll just end up on "You've Been Framed" if I try clipless pedals in public!

    I keep meaning to meet up with my friend/acquaintance who has clipless shoes and a similar foot size. I think I need to give them a go to get an idea of whether I'd get on with them, but I'm sceptical.

    Anyway, from what you're saying, it sounds like I probably won't notice a huge difference (other than weight and durability) with an expensive set of pedals, so I think I'll pop in to a few local shops so I can get an idea of size and weight and just pick whatever looks about right.
    Thanks again, everyone!
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 14th Mar 17, 3:24 AM
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    Johnmcl7
    You're right to be sceptical of clipless and you're definitely right to try it out first. When I was out cycling in groups I was relentlessly pushed to switch to clipless pedals as I was constantly told how much faster I could go and how much longer I could manage. I eventually gave in and jumped in with both feet buying a fairly expensive pair of Shimano shoes (they were the best fit when I tried a few shoes on) and Shimano clipless pedals.

    I never liked it at all but was told to stick with it and I'd get the hang of it although months went by and it got no better plus no matter how much I adjusted the pedals and cleats, I couldn't avoid knee pain. I was convinced to change to a different clipless pedal system with more float but I didn't like them any better. Aside from the knee pain I'd never liked the feel of the pedals nor had I seen any of the improvements that had been promised.

    I decided I'd wasted enough time and money on the clipless pedals and went back to flats and wish I'd done so sooner, I'm annoyed I let myself be badgered into changing pedals when I was happy with what I had. I think a lot of it comes down to the feel of the pedals, the 'pull up' advantage of clipless pedals has been disproved and the large performance benefits claimed are also not true:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

    I think what it comes down to is whether people like the feel of the pedals or not, in some hill climbing tests the flat pedals have been slightly more efficient but the person doing the testing said they felt the lumpier cadence of the flats was more tiring and less efficient so were surprised to find that wasn't the case.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try clipless pedals, you may find you do like them but don't fall for an exaggerated claims about them. They seem to have reached this almost mythological status to the point where many people are now convinced it's not possible to cycle long distance or any sort of speed unless you have clipless pedals. I did a CX race a couple of years back on a fairly hefty 15kg bike amongst lightweight CX bikes some of which were probably a similar weigh to my wheels alone, I got a decent result and it wasn't the fact that I had a much heavier bike that surprised people it's that I'd managed that sort of speed on flat pedals...sigh. I still get regularly told I'll need to switch to clipless pedals when I start doing longer rides, they're genuinely surprised when I tell them I've done 10-12 hour rides and 24 hour endurance races on flat pedals because that just isn't possible.

    John
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th Mar 17, 10:16 AM
    • 3,926 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    I am the opposite, apart from my town bike, I ride clipless all the time, mainly for touring and audax rides. Certainly less tiring on a day ride of 200km and they provide more security struggling up hills out of the saddle than flats.. Set up is crucial though and a bit like saddles what works for you might not work for someone else, and it can get a bit expensive experimenting with a number of set ups.

    Being old I fortunate now know what works for me, Brooks saddle and MTB double sided clip less, even on my CF road bike.
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 14th Mar 17, 10:19 AM
    • 4,047 Posts
    • 2,335 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    You're right to be sceptical of clipless and you're definitely right to try it out first. When I was out cycling in groups I was relentlessly pushed to switch to clipless pedals as I was constantly told how much faster I could go and how much longer I could manage. I eventually gave in and jumped in with both feet buying a fairly expensive pair of Shimano shoes (they were the best fit when I tried a few shoes on) and Shimano clipless pedals.

    I never liked it at all but was told to stick with it and I'd get the hang of it although months went by and it got no better plus no matter how much I adjusted the pedals and cleats, I couldn't avoid knee pain. I was convinced to change to a different clipless pedal system with more float but I didn't like them any better. Aside from the knee pain I'd never liked the feel of the pedals nor had I seen any of the improvements that had been promised.

    I decided I'd wasted enough time and money on the clipless pedals and went back to flats and wish I'd done so sooner, I'm annoyed I let myself be badgered into changing pedals when I was happy with what I had. I think a lot of it comes down to the feel of the pedals, the 'pull up' advantage of clipless pedals has been disproved and the large performance benefits claimed are also not true:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM

    I think what it comes down to is whether people like the feel of the pedals or not, in some hill climbing tests the flat pedals have been slightly more efficient but the person doing the testing said they felt the lumpier cadence of the flats was more tiring and less efficient so were surprised to find that wasn't the case.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try clipless pedals, you may find you do like them but don't fall for an exaggerated claims about them. They seem to have reached this almost mythological status to the point where many people are now convinced it's not possible to cycle long distance or any sort of speed unless you have clipless pedals. I did a CX race a couple of years back on a fairly hefty 15kg bike amongst lightweight CX bikes some of which were probably a similar weigh to my wheels alone, I got a decent result and it wasn't the fact that I had a much heavier bike that surprised people it's that I'd managed that sort of speed on flat pedals...sigh. I still get regularly told I'll need to switch to clipless pedals when I start doing longer rides, they're genuinely surprised when I tell them I've done 10-12 hour rides and 24 hour endurance races on flat pedals because that just isn't possible.

    John
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    If moving to clipless a proper bike fit is a good idea, it's not necessarily the angle of the pedals / cleats but it can accentuate the problems from a bad setup such as wrong saddle height etc given you are fixed in rather than able to move around. I have pretty much pain free clipless riding since I had a £50 fit to get all the angles right. When I changed the pedals from the shimano to speedplay the guy in the shop fitted them and when testing noticed the saddle on my commuter bike which I had been riding 3+ years was too high as it meant my legs were pretty much straight on the down position!

    I've seen the video before, please don't make the mistake of confusing a largely unscientific one off test by a couple of guys with being some sort of conclusive debunk of millions of pounds of research done by pros. Specialized for example do wind tunnel tests to establish something as simple as what hair style is best for female riders (a bun > pony tail > loose) and whether shaving legs helps men (it does, for a pro rider). The GCN guys offer great videos and tips but they're not scientists and their tests involve 1 guy in a one off trial with little in the way of proper testing.

    Clipless has many advantages such as guaranteed power (your foot could slip off the pedal at a crucial moment in a sprint for example especially at high cadence or in the wet or on a poor surface), better handling, no need to concentrate on the pedalling side of the bike especially if you can't see the road very well e.g. in a pack or at night etc

    For the pros, especially for sprints and small uphills the clipless system does provide more power.

    For example a paper published in International Journal of Sport Biometrics 7:29-53, 1991 from Texas concluded

    "...while torque during the upstroke did reduce the total positive work required during the downstroke, it did not contribute significantly to the external work done because 98.6% and 96.3% of the total work done at the low and high workloads, respectively, was done during the downstroke."
    Marginal gains perhaps but still significant at the higher end
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 14th Mar 17, 6:51 PM
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    Johnmcl7
    If moving to clipless a proper bike fit is a good idea, it's not necessarily the angle of the pedals / cleats but it can accentuate the problems from a bad setup such as wrong saddle height etc given you are fixed in rather than able to move around. I have pretty much pain free clipless riding since I had a £50 fit to get all the angles right. When I changed the pedals from the shimano to speedplay the guy in the shop fitted them and when testing noticed the saddle on my commuter bike which I had been riding 3+ years was too high as it meant my legs were pretty much straight on the down position!
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    I knew this was coming....I had a bike fit, tried it on multiple bikes, also tried multiple clipless pedal systems and couldn't get as comfortable as I was with flats.

    I've seen the video before, please don't make the mistake of confusing a largely unscientific one off test by a couple of guys with being some sort of conclusive debunk of millions of pounds of research done by pros. Specialized for example do wind tunnel tests to establish something as simple as what hair style is best for female riders (a bun > pony tail > loose) and whether shaving legs helps men (it does, for a pro rider). The GCN guys offer great videos and tips but they're not scientists and their tests involve 1 guy in a one off trial with little in the way of proper testing.
    Also knew this was coming, it's quite entertaining that every video no matter how it's done if it doesn't show the mythical clipless advantage, then it must be wrong. Everything you've referred to is not relevant to normal riders like us, it's like suggesting we should change our driving habits to how Lewis Hamilton drives because it's faster for him - the pros do many things differently to normal riders because they ride differently and for their type of riding, every tiny percentage is worth going for.

    I'm not going to post the many other recent examples showing clipless failed to give the promised advantages as I'm sure they'll just be casually dismissed as well.

    Clipless has many advantages such as guaranteed power (your foot could slip off the pedal at a crucial moment in a sprint for example especially at high cadence or in the wet or on a poor surface), better handling, no need to concentrate on the pedalling side of the bike especially if you can't see the road very well e.g. in a pack or at night etc
    If your foot is slipping on a flat pedal, you need to change the pedal and/or the shoe because even when riding on wet, slippy CX courses where I've had to get on and off the bike, I haven't slipped on the pedals (and still out sprinted other riders on clipless in rough conditions - impossible I know but I'm just that good I can defy the impossible it seems). Clipless actually makes for worse handling, it's quite common for people to go back to flats to relearn the bike skills they've lost with clipless pedals. There's absolutely no need to 'concentrate' on pedalling with flats (I frequently see this as a stated disadvantage and no idea where it comes from), you put your foot on the pedal and push down..don't need to worry about position, don't need to worry about clipping in and don't need to worry about clipping out...way less concentration needed.

    For the pros, especially for sprints and small uphills the clipless system does provide more power.

    Marginal gains perhaps but still significant at the higher end
    For the pros - that's exactly it although the gains aren't significant at the high end, they're tiny but every tiny advantage counts. I totally get that people like the feel of clipless pedals and it follows they'll pedal better but I get irritated by these fabricated advantages which there's plenty of evidence to disprove them. I wish I hadn't listened to the claims such as above that I was relentlessly parroted much the same as yourself and found myself they didn't exist.

    I wish people had been more honest with me when badgering me to change - definitely not a bad idea to try clipless pedals and if you like the feel of them, then carry on with them. But I wouldn't spend a lot of money doing so and if you don't like them, don't feel you have to stay with them as the actual performance benefit in reality for normal riders is not even noticeable.

    John
    Last edited by Johnmcl7; 14-03-2017 at 7:08 PM.
    • Johnmcl7
    • By Johnmcl7 14th Mar 17, 6:59 PM
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    • 1,563 Thanks
    Johnmcl7
    I am the opposite, apart from my town bike, I ride clipless all the time, mainly for touring and audax rides. Certainly less tiring on a day ride of 200km and they provide more security struggling up hills out of the saddle than flats.. Set up is crucial though and a bit like saddles what works for you might not work for someone else, and it can get a bit expensive experimenting with a number of set ups.

    Being old I fortunate now know what works for me, Brooks saddle and MTB double sided clip less, even on my CF road bike.
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    It's also crucial with flats that you have the bike set up properly, if the flats are more tiring and you've got the risk of pedal slips then there's something wrong. In actual testing, there's actually less effort needed on flats to climb hills it's just people used to clipless feel like it's more effort due to the lumpier pedal stroke. A good platform pedal and shoe should not be slipping at all, I've done 24 hour mountain biking in the rain and mud as well as soaking wet cx races with no pedal slips even accelerating hard on rough terrain. Accelerating up hills in the rain on a road bike is a breeze by comparison.

    I tried bike fit, changing the bike setup, different bikes and different pedal systems until I gave up wasting several hundred pounds in the process. I just wish I'd paid attention to the science rather than listening to advice from other cyclist and saved wasting a lot of time and money as my experience with both systems is pretty much bang on what scientific testing shows - clipless benefits are very small in certain circumstances and nothing like what is claimed by clipless proponents. I just genuinely don't understand how clipless pedals have achieved this near legendary status, it's almost as bad as 1x drivetrains.

    John
    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 14th Mar 17, 7:30 PM
    • 7,720 Posts
    • 5,508 Thanks
    esuhl
    Cheers all. I've also had a few people telling me that I absolutely must try clipless pedals as I'll be able to travel so much further and faster...

    But I've realised how often I put my feet down in certain situations -- for example on very narrow shared paths, or on hilly rough ground, etc.

    And I don't try to compete against myself (or anyone else) by setting times or having an exercise regime, so I'm not worried about being super-efficient.

    Just the other day, I pulled in behind a parked car, breaking quite hard, and tried to simultaneously return the wave given to me by the oncoming driver. Anyway I soft-of slipped off the saddle and pedals and ended up leaning over the handlebars! If I'd have had clipless pedals, I wouldn't have been able to unclip and would've ended up hurting myself!

    I'll definitely give them a go at some point (if I can borrow some shoes), but I think I'll stick with flats for now.

    I've actually seen quite a few articles on MTB sites suggesting that people switch to flats to improve their performance. So, I guess it all depends on how you ride as to which is "best"...?
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 15th Mar 17, 8:26 AM
    • 4,047 Posts
    • 2,335 Thanks
    Nasqueron
    I knew this was coming....I had a bike fit, tried it on multiple bikes, also tried multiple clipless pedal systems and couldn't get as comfortable as I was with flats.



    Also knew this was coming, it's quite entertaining that every video no matter how it's done if it doesn't show the mythical clipless advantage, then it must be wrong. Everything you've referred to is not relevant to normal riders like us, it's like suggesting we should change our driving habits to how Lewis Hamilton drives because it's faster for him - the pros do many things differently to normal riders because they ride differently and for their type of riding, every tiny percentage is worth going for.

    I'm not going to post the many other recent examples showing clipless failed to give the promised advantages as I'm sure they'll just be casually dismissed as well.



    If your foot is slipping on a flat pedal, you need to change the pedal and/or the shoe because even when riding on wet, slippy CX courses where I've had to get on and off the bike, I haven't slipped on the pedals (and still out sprinted other riders on clipless in rough conditions - impossible I know but I'm just that good I can defy the impossible it seems). Clipless actually makes for worse handling, it's quite common for people to go back to flats to relearn the bike skills they've lost with clipless pedals. There's absolutely no need to 'concentrate' on pedalling with flats (I frequently see this as a stated disadvantage and no idea where it comes from), you put your foot on the pedal and push down..don't need to worry about position, don't need to worry about clipping in and don't need to worry about clipping out...way less concentration needed.



    For the pros - that's exactly it although the gains aren't significant at the high end, they're tiny but every tiny advantage counts. I totally get that people like the feel of clipless pedals and it follows they'll pedal better but I get irritated by these fabricated advantages which there's plenty of evidence to disprove them. I wish I hadn't listened to the claims such as above that I was relentlessly parroted much the same as yourself and found myself they didn't exist.

    I wish people had been more honest with me when badgering me to change - definitely not a bad idea to try clipless pedals and if you like the feel of them, then carry on with them. But I wouldn't spend a lot of money doing so and if you don't like them, don't feel you have to stay with them as the actual performance benefit in reality for normal riders is not even noticeable.

    John
    Originally posted by Johnmcl7
    What I am pointing out is that sources are not necessarily valid just because they support your view. GCN are a great bunch and do some useful videos for new riders but it doesn't mean they are scientific or a one off video with limited testing or controls is definitive. Using a video like that as proof is a basic logical fallacy which is why I pointed it out and also provided details of a peer reviewed medical journal which IS a valid source. If you explore enough you can find videos "proving" there were no planes involved in 9/11 or that the Queen is a lizard, that doesn't mean they are true. This is why confirmation bias is such a big issue - when you set out to investigate something by only looking at sources that tell you what you already believe and never at sources that challenge you then your argument will never be solid.

    It's the same with your anecdotal evidence about bike fitting. What works or not for you doesn't somehow prove the whole thing is invalid. Millions is spent on technology and research to develop best practice techniqueso using cameras, lasers etc to get the right position for each rider, maybe it was not right for you but that doesn't mean the whole practice is invalid.

    Do a little research into things you don't believe and you might be surprised at the solid evidence disproving ideas you believed to be facts
    • Throbbe
    • By Throbbe 15th Mar 17, 1:41 PM
    • 457 Posts
    • 349 Thanks
    Throbbe
    Pros ride at 25mph average because they're fit, trained and have fantastic bikes
    Originally posted by Nasqueron

    Unfortunately for the rest of us, the first two factors are significantly more important than the last.
    • Nebulous2
    • By Nebulous2 15th Mar 17, 9:51 PM
    • 1,626 Posts
    • 987 Thanks
    Nebulous2
    I use both. Flats on commuter cyclocross bike and clipless on road bike.

    I've recently bought these. They're relatively cheap, get good reviews, my work shoes don't slip and they come with reflectors built-in.
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