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  • FIRST POST
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 11th Mar 17, 5:02 PM
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    MercilessKiller
    TFL Yellow Box penalty notice
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 17, 5:02 PM
    TFL Yellow Box penalty notice 11th Mar 17 at 5:02 PM
    Hi All

    Received one of those dreaded penalties for stopping in a yellow box.

    In this case, it's a Yellow Box on Purley way at a horrible junction (anyone who knows that road will know it). It goes uphill so can have poor visibility.

    Anyway, I'm following traffic, and there's clearly plenty of room beyond the box. I'm following another car, and for some reason he stops about half a car width in front of the yellow box though has plenty of room in front of him. I unfortunately then have to stop. Half my car is beyond the yellow box (or just under) - front tyres beyond it, rear tyers on the wrong side.

    I wasn't blocking any traffic what so ever. And after me beeping the idiot in front a few times, he moved forward and I proceeded to go beyond the box.

    Is this grounds for appeal? My worry is that I appeal, it gets denied, and rather than pay the £65 discounted fine I have to pay the full £130.

    Would love advice on this from any experts. If everyone stopped before the other side was openly clear, it would be ridiculous as it is uphill so that would mean every car at a green light on this 30 road would have to stop, wait, and then go?

    Thanks!
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
Page 2
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Mar 17, 7:14 AM
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    Car 54
    And if you wait patiently at the other side of the box until there is room for you to cross you get some muppet blowing his horn angrily at you. So it's lose-lose.
    Originally posted by konark
    Option 1 - pay £65 fine.

    Option 2 - listen to someone's horn.

    Pretty easy decision. Hardly lose-lose.
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 12th Mar 17, 9:18 AM
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    MercilessKiller
    Right, so your suggestion is that when travelling at 30mph through a busy yet free flowing box junction, go from 30mph to 0 at the start of the junction (when the lights are green), wait for the guy in front to exit it (it's a very large box junction), and then go again?

    Think about it.. that's totally unreasonable. No one does that!

    Eurghhhh. Anyway, I've got advice from experts who suggest asking for the video. If it appears the driver in front has been unreasonable then a tribunal would dismiss it.
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Mar 17, 10:46 AM
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    Car 54
    Eurghhhh. Anyway, I've got advice from experts who suggest asking for the video. If it appears the driver in front has been unreasonable then a tribunal would dismiss it.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    What experts?

    What tribunal?
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 12th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
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    Retrogamer
    And if you wait patiently at the other side of the box until there is room for you to cross you get some muppet blowing his horn angrily at you. So it's lose-lose.
    Originally posted by konark
    Can honestly say in my 11 years of driving, no one has ever beeped the horn at me because i was waiting for the exit to become clear at a yellow box junction.


    Right, so your suggestion is that when travelling at 30mph through a busy yet free flowing box junction, go from 30mph to 0 at the start of the junction (when the lights are green), wait for the guy in front to exit it (it's a very large box junction), and then go again?

    Think about it.. that's totally unreasonable. No one does that!
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    Plenty of people do it. I'd rather do it than risk a fine.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Mar 17, 11:55 AM
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    neilmcl
    Right, so your suggestion is that when travelling at 30mph through a busy yet free flowing box junction, go from 30mph to 0 at the start of the junction (when the lights are green), wait for the guy in front to exit it (it's a very large box junction), and then go again?

    Think about it.. that's totally unreasonable. No one does that!

    Eurghhhh. Anyway, I've got advice from experts who suggest asking for the video. If it appears the driver in front has been unreasonable then a tribunal would dismiss it.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    Well it's not "free flowing" if you have to wait for another car to exit, is it!

    In circumstances like these you should always be ready to stop as you would do with any other junction.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Mar 17, 12:05 PM
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    bigadaj
    This forum is a very interesting lesson in how many drivers think, or not as the case may be.

    A lesson for everyone and helps in my defensive driving approach whenever on the road.
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 12th Mar 17, 3:40 PM
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    MercilessKiller
    Well it's not "free flowing" if you have to wait for another car to exit, is it!

    In circumstances like these you should always be ready to stop as you would do with any other junction.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    I love it when people comment after not really properly reading what's happened here.

    IT was free flowing. The idiot in front of me stopped because he was on his phone or something and panicked (emergency break) leading me to stop. There was clearly space in front of him. And after beeping him, he continued to move forward.
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
    • poppasmurf_bewdley
    • By poppasmurf_bewdley 12th Mar 17, 4:20 PM
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    poppasmurf_bewdley
    I love it when people comment after not really properly reading what's happened here.

    IT was free flowing. The idiot in front of me stopped because he was on his phone or something and panicked (emergency break) leading me to stop. There was clearly space in front of him. And after beeping him, he continued to move forward.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    I'm sorry that you still seem unable to comprehend the fact that the offence is 'stopping with the marked area'.

    No matter whether the 'idiot in front of you' stopped or not, you should not have entered the box until your exit was clear. But you did. The road in front of you was not clear, so you shouldn't have entered the box.
    There are not enough superlatives in the English language to describe a 'Princess Coronation' locomotive in full cry. We shall never see their like again". O.S. Nock
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Mar 17, 5:02 PM
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    Car 54
    I love it when people comment after not really properly reading what's happened here.

    IT was free flowing. The idiot in front of me stopped because he was on his phone or something and panicked (emergency break) leading me to stop. There was clearly space in front of him. And after beeping him, he continued to move forward.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    How do you know that the "idiot" in front of you didn't have a valid reason to stop? Especially as you said in the OP that "the visibility is poor".

    BTW I've been driving up and down Purley Way for 35 years, and heve never had to stop in a yellow box. I guess I must be really lucky ...
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 12th Mar 17, 11:15 PM
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    GingerBob
    I was caught in almost identical circumstances in a London Borough adjoining yours. I wrote a reasoned reply pointing out that the car in front had stopped with a long gap in front of him which resulted in my back tyres being on the edge of the yellow box. Mentioned that the photos attached to the fine letter showed clearly that I wasn't causing an obstruction to traffic on or joining the main road. Sadly they declined my appeal, saying that it was up to me to ensure that the car in front had left sufficient space for me to cross the box!

    On the plus side, there was an indication on the original letter that the reduced rate of fine would be applied in the event of an appeal being made provided it was paid within 14 days of the appeal being declined. If that's the case with yours I'd give an appeal a go - you've nothing to lose! Good luck.
    Originally posted by Itsgottabedone

    There are some real scumbags in local government and the like these days.
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 13th Mar 17, 10:22 AM
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    MercilessKiller
    How do you know that the "idiot" in front of you didn't have a valid reason to stop? Especially as you said in the OP that "the visibility is poor".

    BTW I've been driving up and down Purley Way for 35 years, and heve never had to stop in a yellow box. I guess I must be really lucky ...
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Because he was quite clearly concentrating on something else. Consistently randomly breaking and doing weird things. Either kids or phone or something going on in the car.

    So if you call dropping your phone a valid reason to stop, makes sense.
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 13th Mar 17, 10:39 AM
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    MercilessKiller
    Just spoke to TFL - explained what happened and asked for video evidence. They cancelled the penalty.....

    A lot of people gave advice here without really being experts or having gone through this - That wasn't the intention of the original post. Thanks to all the commentators but really, it became a debate that wasn't needed.
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
    • Retrogamer
    • By Retrogamer 13th Mar 17, 11:23 AM
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    Retrogamer
    So if you call dropping your phone a valid reason to stop, makes sense.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    Where did anyone say that?

    Just spoke to TFL - explained what happened and asked for video evidence. They cancelled the penalty.....

    A lot of people gave advice here without really being experts or having gone through this - That wasn't the intention of the original post. Thanks to all the commentators but really, it became a debate that wasn't needed.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    From my experience of reviewing instances like yours the vast majority of people don't get them cancelled because they've completed the offense and they do have evidence.

    The advice offered is because the vast majority of people still get fined.

    It appears you're very lucky.
    • d0nkeyk0ng
    • By d0nkeyk0ng 13th Mar 17, 11:31 AM
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    d0nkeyk0ng
    Frustratingly, I had a similar experience - driving down a busy road in London (I'm from the Midlands) and saw a box junction coming up. The car in front had plenty of space in front of it and I assumed would continue - there was clearly going to be enough space for me. He stopped so that I was halfway in/out of the box. If he'd crept forward (this was slowish moving traffic), I would have been fine.

    Sucked it up and paid the fine, especially as they had a photo.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 13th Mar 17, 11:56 AM
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    sheramber
    Just spoke to TFL - explained what happened and asked for video evidence. They cancelled the penalty.....

    A lot of people gave advice here without really being experts or having gone through this - That wasn't the intention of the original post. Thanks to all the commentators but really, it became a debate that wasn't needed.
    Originally posted by MercilessKiller
    A lot of people gave advice here without really being experts

    This is not a forum of experts. It is a public forum, not the place to ask for expert advice.
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 13th Mar 17, 11:57 AM
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    MercilessKiller
    A lot of people gave advice here without really being experts

    This is not a forum of experts. It is a public forum, not the place to ask for expert advice.
    Originally posted by sheramber
    "Or having gone through this"...

    Seriously - this turned into a debate about driving. I was asking about advice on process.

    Anyway, good result
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
    • 5557223
    • By 5557223 13th Mar 17, 12:31 PM
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    5557223
    I feel sorry for you for getting the kinds of responses you did. People don't realise they could get caught up in situations like this themselves. Humans are err-bound but not everyone appreciates that esp when its not them.

    Glad your case is sorted and common sense prevailed.
    • warehouse
    • By warehouse 13th Mar 17, 12:46 PM
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    warehouse
    OP, I've been reading these forums for many years now and have come to the following conclusions:

    1. Never enter a yellow box junction until it's clear on the other side.
    2. Never go through a red light to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.
    3. Never post a driving question on this forum unless you want the self righteous out in force, (as you've seen).

    Well done in getting it cancelled. Being fined for clearly not causing a blockage is not right, the law can be an a55 sometimes.
    Pants
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Mar 17, 12:49 PM
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    DoaM
    Sucked it up and paid the fine, especially as they had a photo.
    Originally posted by d0nkeyk0ng
    You could have been doing 20 mph and a photo would still show you stationary.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • MercilessKiller
    • By MercilessKiller 13th Mar 17, 12:51 PM
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    MercilessKiller
    Ha thanks guys!
    "The internet is a great way to get on the net."
    - Bob Dole, Republican presidential candidate
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