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  • FIRST POST
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 11:20 AM
    • 11Posts
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    holly_p
    BW Legal - No parking fine letters received
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:20 AM
    BW Legal - No parking fine letters received 11th Mar 17 at 11:20 AM
    Hi

    I don't know if anyone will be able to help me.

    Basically I have received a letter from BW Legal stating that Vehicle Control Services Limited have instructed them to collect a balance for a PCN, currently £160. However, this is the first I have heard about this fine as I moved address. I sent off my log book to change the address but after having contacted DVLA it was never received and therefore my old address was what they must of sent the PCN's to, I have requested a new log book at the cost of £25. My licence was correct with my new address so I have attempted to change both. BW Legal somehow had my new address and have basically said it is my fault and nothing can be done. I have asked for copies of the original PCN's to check the address. If I'd of had the letters to the correct address the driver would of paid within the set time or appealed but wasn't given the chance to.

    Any advice?
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 8:50 PM.
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    • 3,772 Posts
    • 5,334 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:28 AM
    First question, you say you would have paid within the set time limit, what do you mean by this?
    did you fail to pay in a pay and display car park, and the amount you say you would have paid would have been the advertised rate ( ie £1.50/hour)?

    Do you know where/whos car park this was?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 12:00 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:00 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:00 PM
    Yes but as it was late at night in November signs weren't noticed and it was assumed that it was a council carpark where it was free after 6pm (drivers mistake). The car park is Smyth Street in Wakefield, and is now £4.50 for a full day.

    Normally with a fine you receive a PCN letter stating to pay around £60 within 28 days or are given the chance to appeal.
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:22 PM.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    • 3,772 Posts
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    Half_way
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:58 PM
    You should take a read of the sticky thread, as get an understanding of the difference between a fine and a parking charge notice.

    How long ago was the original charge issued?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 2:30 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 2:30 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 2:30 PM
    I know that technically it's not a fine, it's more of a penalty, is that correct?

    And it happened November 2016.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 11th Mar 17, 4:01 PM
    • 885 Posts
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    Lamilad
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 4:01 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 4:01 PM
    I know that technically it's not a fine, it's more of a penalty, is that correct?
    Originally posted by holly_p
    Well unofficially it's a penalty. Officially it's a charge for parking when parked other than in accordance with the terms and conditions offered by the signage.

    Only proper authorities such as the courts or police can issue fines/ penalties. Private companies/individuals can only give you an invoice. That's what you've received - a speculative invoice!
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 11th Mar 17, 4:08 PM
    • 7,293 Posts
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    pappa golf
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 4:08 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 4:08 PM
    I actually wonder if this is nov 2016?

    the timing inc the involvement of (probably) DR+ seems very fast

    OP , please can you answer the following
    1: date (you think) incident took place
    2: date you moved from your old house

    more questions will follow
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 5:26 PM
    It was around the 28th November 2016.
    Keeper moved house August 2016.
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:23 PM.
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 11th Mar 17, 5:36 PM
    • 7,293 Posts
    • 7,445 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 5:36 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 5:36 PM
    ticket issued
    It was around the 28th November 2016.
    VCS write to you 10-14 days , giving you 28 days to reply

    this takes it to early jan they then pass it on to DR+ (etc) who then write several times , over a couple of mths timespan , then to zenith (2 mths again ) , who then hand it back to vcs , who contact BW

    I still suspect this is a historic claim (5-6 yrs ago?)

    have you had sight of the ticket ?
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 8:32 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    Keeper has only had the car since July 2016 and is the first owner. The only time the driver ever parked there was November 2016. Keeper/driver never received tickets or letters as they sent them to the wrong address. Keeper got the BW legal letter as they said they got the keeper's correct address through something along the lines of equifax, not sure if that's the right one. Keeper has asked for proof of postage from them and have asked for copies of all letters they've sent the keeper as keeper has never received anything.
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:25 PM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 11th Mar 17, 9:03 PM
    • 5,959 Posts
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    beamerguy
    I've only had the car since July 2016 and I am the first owner. The only time I've ever parked there was November 2016. I've never received tickets or letters as they sent them to the wrong address. I've got the BW legal letter as they said they got my correct address through something along the lines of equifax, not sure if that's the right one. I've asked for proof of postage from them and have asked for copies of all letters they've sent me as I've never received anything.
    Originally posted by holly_p
    Equifax and similar are credit reference agencies so which company did they state ?
    How would they match your new address with your reg number if not via the DVLA ?

    BWLegal's failure to provide information is in your favour if it goes to court as they have to prove their claim

    The courts have got wise to BWLegal now

    PS ... could you please edit the header to BWLegal so others with similar problems can relate to.
    You do this using advance edit
    Last edited by beamerguy; 11-03-2017 at 9:08 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 10:29 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    Equifax is what BW Legal said they used to get the correct address.
    Keepers licence is for the correct address. They've tracked the keeper's name through the credit site as keeper's log book is still in the old address. Keeper is currently in the process of getting a new one sent out so the correct address can be put on as the original was lost in the post, hence why the first letters from VCSL went to the old address and weren't received by the keeper.

    I've also changed the header, I didn't realise I'd miss-spelled. Thank you
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:27 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Mar 17, 11:07 PM
    • 50,061 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    More importantly, we hope you have read the NEWBIES thread post #2 and threads about BW Legal because you will need to defend a claim this year - that's an experience for you to prepare for.

    We win 99% of the time, BW Legal are shocking with evidence. As an example, you can read Lamilad's own thread about how he beat them by clicking on his username. Everyone else using a forum defence and following the forum guidance properly, filing a WS & evidence in good time before the hearing etc., has also won.

    So, get reading the NEWBIES thread first and no ringing BW Legal - you need to see this for what it is, a robo-claim which will proceed and for you to defend. Yes you have a defence, unremarkable unlit signs don't form a contract if they are not prominent and you can't see them, for a start.

    Don't admit who was driving. I hope you didn't, when you asked for letters/photos.

    And finally, have you now updated your address on your V5 (not your driving licence, your car's V5)? You can get a real fine from the DVLA for not doing that, you know!
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 12-03-2017 at 5:03 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 11th Mar 17, 11:27 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    I'm doing as much research as I can and reading up on everything. And thank you, I'll have a read of Lamilad's thread.

    Keeper called BW Legal stating that evidence was needed of the original letters from VCSL as keeper had never received anything. The person on the other end of the phone was pretty useless and couldn't give keeper a time frame of when copies would be received. Keeper never admitted who was driving, Keeper just said how is keeper expected to know if never received anything in the first place.

    I have also contacted DVLA who have directed me to the form needed to request a new logbook as it seems my old one with the address change request was lost in the post. This will be posted Monday.

    I have also drafted a letter to them just in case I need evidence for court that I have tried to resolve the matter.

    Dear BW Legal,

    Your Ref VCS/------- re: Vehicle Control Services Limited Acc: VC-------

    I note your Letter dated 1st March 2017, received 5th March 2017.

    I deny any debt to your client and require further information in writing.

    You cannot presume that I am in possession of all the documents referred to in your letter and I require a copy of the Notice to Driver and Notice to Keeper to inspect so that I can make an informed decision. Please send copies of these and any documents that will be produced in the event of your threatened action, including copies of all photographs taken and evidence of the contract itself (clear evidence of the terms on the signs at the time). Correspondence from Vehicle Control Services Limited regarding account number: VC----- have never been received and therefore knowledge of this matter was unknown until your letter dated 1st March 2017. Therefore the opportunity to respond within 28 days has not been given. This was stated to your call centre assistant by telephone on the 11th March 2017. The call centre assistant was also told that three emails to yourselves had been sent and not responded to. I have contacted DVLA with regards to the address associated with the car.

    In order to understand my legal position, I also require the following information:

    1. Is your client's intended action funded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or trespass?
    2. What is the basis of the additional £60 charge?
    3. If it is for legal services, has your client already paid it?

    When I receive the documents and your answers I will be in a position to make a more detailed response and as such, it would be wholly unreasonable and vexatious to proceed in the small claims track at the present time.

    Yours Faithfully


    Does this read well?
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:28 PM.
    • holly_p
    • By holly_p 12th Mar 17, 8:33 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    holly_p
    Keeper just checked my credit report and they're listed on report looking up keepers details on the 27th February 2017. Surely keeper must consent for them to do this?
    Last edited by holly_p; 13-03-2017 at 5:29 PM.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 12th Mar 17, 9:36 AM
    • 885 Posts
    • 1,857 Thanks
    Lamilad
    To avoid confusion it's best that you refer to yourself as 'the keeper' and the driver (whoever that was) as 'the driver'.

    Review you posts esp #3, #10, #14 and edit as needed to make them clearer.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 12th Mar 17, 10:07 AM
    • 885 Posts
    • 1,857 Thanks
    Lamilad

    I have also drafted a letter to them just in case I need evidence for court that I have tried to resolve the matter.

    Dear BW Legal,

    Your Ref VCS/------- re: Vehicle Control Services Limited Acc: VC-------

    I note your Letter dated 1st March 2017, received 5th March 2017.

    I deny any debt to your client and require further information in writing.

    You cannot presume that I am in possession of all the documents referred to in your letter and I require a copy of the Notice to Driver and Notice to Keeper to inspect so that I can make an informed decision. Please send copies of these and any documents that will be produced in the event of your threatened action, including copies of all photographs taken and evidence of the contract itself (clear evidence of the terms on the signs at the time). Correspondence from Vehicle Control Services Limited regarding account number: VC----- have never been received and therefore knowledge of this matter was unknown until your letter dated 1st March 2017. Therefore the opportunity to respond within 28 days has not been given. This was stated to your call centre assistant by telephone on the 11th March 2017. The call centre assistant was also told that three emails to yourselves had been sent and not responded to. I have contacted DVLA with regards to the address associated with the car.

    In order to understand my legal position, I also require the following information:

    1. Is your client's intended action funded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or trespass?
    2. What is the basis of the additional £60 charge?
    3. If it is for legal services, has your client already paid it?

    When I receive the documents and your answers I will be in a position to make a more detailed response and as such, it would be wholly unreasonable and vexatious to proceed in the small claims track at the present time.

    Yours Faithfully


    Does this read well?
    Originally posted by holly_p
    I'm not sure i see the point in sending this letter. You don't really need the info you're asking for and it doesn't discuss any proposed resolution.

    My experience with BWL is more around court process than debt recovery stage so others may advise differently but if I was going to write to them I would keep it short and to the point, simply denying the debt. I would include a section 10 notice at the end which would read something like this:

    "You should consider this a Section 10 Notice which gives you 21 days to respond or I will make a complaint to the ICO. Further, if you and/or your client continue to process my data I will seek damages for distress for this continued data protection contravention. Vidal-Hall v Google [2014] EWHC 13 (QB) establishes that misuse of personal data is a tort and that damages for a breach of the DPA could include non-pecuniary damage. The case of Halliday v Creation Consumer Finance Ltd [2013] All ER (D) 199 provides authority that a reasonable sum for compensation would be £750 so you may consider yourselves and your clients on notice of my intention and the distressing effects on me, of your data mishandling."

    Perhaps wait to see what other's say as contacting debt recovery agents is not always advised.
    Last edited by Lamilad; 12-03-2017 at 10:10 AM.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 12th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
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    beamerguy
    I've just checked my credit report and they're listed on my report looking up my details on the 27th February 2017. Surely I must consent for them to do this?
    Originally posted by holly_p
    I'll say again, how by checking on your credit report can they match to your reg number.

    The credit report system is as flawed as the DVLA when it comes to the release of data

    Do as Lamilad says.

    BWLegal had no reason to access your credit file and data.
    In their minds there is a debt but only a judge will decide that and when you win, yes, it's all guns blazing to the ICO
    Last edited by beamerguy; 12-03-2017 at 10:48 AM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • yotmon
    • By yotmon 12th Mar 17, 4:29 PM
    • 459 Posts
    • 648 Thanks
    yotmon
    It seems to me that BW Legal have received notification from your old address that you are not known there and that's what has prompted them to use a credit search agency. I'm sure that it would have been in their interest to have continued to harass you at the wrong address with the awareness that they could probably get away with a default win at court, seeing as you would be none the wiser !
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Mar 17, 5:05 PM
    • 50,061 Posts
    • 63,457 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I agree with Lamilad, I think the letter asking for stuff is too generic, it's been floating around far too long and gets nowhere.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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