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    • Alico
    • By Alico 11th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
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    Alico
    Receipts when working away
    • #1
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    Receipts when working away 11th Mar 17 at 11:02 AM
    In January this year a colleague and I were working away, and we happened to forget to get a receipt for £50 worth of fuel. Recently, one of the bosses initially asked for the receipt saying I must have it, even though I had told them several times that we didn't. Then they said that 'under the circumstances please can you arrange to give me the missing £50'. I took this as an accusation of theft. Basically, I was wondering where I stood, on a legal perspective?

    Any help on this is greatly appreciated.
Page 1
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 11th Mar 17, 11:05 AM
    • 6,065 Posts
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    ohreally
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:05 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:05 AM
    To avoid repetition in future get a fuel card from them.

    I trust they pay a mileage allowance that recognises your benefit to them.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 11th Mar 17, 11:06 AM
    • 1,630 Posts
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    comeandgo
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:06 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:06 AM
    You must provide receipts, simple. It's a requirement in case of HMRC audit.
    • Alico
    • By Alico 11th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    Alico
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:11 AM
    I understand that I need to get receipts but, is it wrong of them to ask me to give them the money back out of my own pocket when we fail to get a receipt? I think if this was the case not many people would work away.
    • comeandgo
    • By comeandgo 11th Mar 17, 11:13 AM
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    comeandgo
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:13 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:13 AM
    It is not wrong for them to ask, you do not have relevant proof of purchase. And many people work away from home and have to provide receipts, me being one. I bet you don't forget receipt again.
    • Alico
    • By Alico 11th Mar 17, 11:23 AM
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    Alico
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:23 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:23 AM
    I won't forget the receipt again because I won't be working away again and I have no intention of giving them £50.
    • bap98189
    • By bap98189 11th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    • 2,347 Posts
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    bap98189
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:34 AM
    I understand that I need to get receipts but, is it wrong of them to ask me to give them the money back out of my own pocket when we fail to get a receipt? I think if this was the case not many people would work away.
    Originally posted by Alico
    They have no proof that you spent the money. It's standard policy in most businesses that if you have no receipt you don't get paid.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • 3,575 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    To clarify, are you saying that initially the £50 expenses were paid before a receipt was produced, and now the company is saying they want the money back because you failed to produce a receipt when requested? If that's the case then they are perfectly entitled to claim it back. Their possible mistake is to have paid it before you produced the receipt.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Mar 17, 11:41 AM
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    TELLIT01
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:41 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 11:41 AM
    I won't forget the receipt again because I won't be working away again and I have no intention of giving them £50.
    Originally posted by Alico
    I hope you enjoyed your job, or have been there over 2 years. I don't see much of a future for you at that company.
    • Alico
    • By Alico 11th Mar 17, 11:49 AM
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    Alico
    I haven't enjoyed my job and I've been there 13 years. I also don't see a future at this company. The issue I have is that this has happened before, from other employees and myself and its never been a problem, I guess it's down to trust. The accounts people have all left and it's down to people that don't want to do it. Thanks for the help, I guess I'll have to do a moonlight flit!
    • Bogalot
    • By Bogalot 11th Mar 17, 11:57 AM
    • 1,001 Posts
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    Bogalot
    I haven't enjoyed my job and I've been there 13 years. I also don't see a future at this company. The issue I have is that this has happened before, from other employees and myself and its never been a problem, I guess it's down to trust. The accounts people have all left and it's down to people that don't want to do it. Thanks for the help, I guess I'll have to do a moonlight flit!
    Originally posted by Alico
    It is not a trust issue, it is an audit requirement. Perhaps they have been penalised in the past for a lack of due diligence, and they're making sure it does not happen again.

    They can still pursue you for the overpayment after you have left.

    You need to stop taking this so personally. If you want to leave then start looking for another job, but don't assume that gets you out of paying. Also keep in mind that you will need a reference from them for future employers, burning bridges would be a very bad idea.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 11th Mar 17, 2:13 PM
    • 17,676 Posts
    • 13,379 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Perhaps you need to come at this from a different direction. How did you pay for the fuel? Can you provide some other evidence of payment, such as a credit card statement?
    • phill99
    • By phill99 11th Mar 17, 6:30 PM
    • 7,839 Posts
    • 7,097 Thanks
    phill99
    I won't forget the receipt again because I won't be working away again and I have no intention of giving them £50.
    Originally posted by Alico


    Seems like you won't be working for them at all then. If you have no intention of repaying them, this may be very well be classed as fraud, which is normally Gross Misconduct. Be very careful of the implications of this.
    Eat vegetables and fear no creditors, rather than eat duck and hide.
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 11th Mar 17, 7:57 PM
    • 1,971 Posts
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    trailingspouse
    You say that you and a colleague were working away and 'we forgot' to get a receipt. Although I don't see how two people can get a receipt (an individual fills the car up, they go to pay, they get a receipt), are you basically saying that you paid and your colleague didn't remind you to get a receipt? Or did you pay £25 each?

    Anyway, has your employer approached your colleague for the missing receipt?

    Personally I would be chalking it up to experience - you knew you needed receipts (it would be surprising if you didn't), you didn't get one, no-one to blame but yourself. Seems petty to put your job on the line about it. If you have a paper trail (eg credit card statement showing the amount going out), they might be able to accept that as evidence (although they won't be able to use it to reclaim the VAT, and that will be one of the reasons they need a receipt). As they have already paid you, they might be prepared to do this - but you need to play nice.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 12th Mar 17, 9:59 AM
    • 5,544 Posts
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    Takeaway_Addict
    I understand that I need to get receipts but, is it wrong of them to ask me to give them the money back out of my own pocket when we fail to get a receipt? I think if this was the case not many people would work away.
    Originally posted by Alico
    Its petty if a one off from the employer but thinking from their side....how can you prove you had this fuel?
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Mar 17, 1:06 PM
    • 3,575 Posts
    • 3,645 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    I understand that I need to get receipts but, is it wrong of them to ask me to give them the money back out of my own pocket when we fail to get a receipt? I think if this was the case not many people would work away.
    Originally posted by Alico
    Presumably the expenses were paid on the basis that you would provide the receipt at a later date. You have failed to do this so it is perfectly reasonable for the company to demand repayment.
    Most people who work away from the office know that they need to provide receipts and do so. They don't say they won't work away because they need to prove expenditure.
    • Doshwaster
    • By Doshwaster 12th Mar 17, 1:29 PM
    • 4,660 Posts
    • 3,806 Thanks
    Doshwaster
    Presumably the expenses were paid on the basis that you would provide the receipt at a later date. You have failed to do this so it is perfectly reasonable for the company to demand repayment.
    Most people who work away from the office know that they need to provide receipts and do so. They don't say they won't work away because they need to prove expenditure.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    In the real world, receipts do sometimes get lost or forgotten and any sensible expense policy will be able to cope with this for occasional lapses rather than punishing the employee for a genuine mistake.

    I always pay for everything for work by credit card so the bank will always have a record of the transaction even if I lose or forget the receipt. In addition, if I do get a receipt I take a photo of it on my phone in case it gets lost. Never pay for anything in cash that you plan to claim the cost for.
    • Scorpio33
    • By Scorpio33 13th Mar 17, 10:09 AM
    • 435 Posts
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    Scorpio33
    From experience, most companies won't pay without some back up, due to the requirements from both HMRC as well as the internal and external auditors. It can affect the tax liabilities as well as the audited costs to the business massively.

    A typical policy would state something like receipts are required and that employees are advised to keep a copy of all receipts in case of issues with receipts going missing. However, if this is the first time you have lost receipts, then they would probably accept some other proof (ie: bank statement or credit card receipts). They may let you off without receipts, but this would be highly unusual, and at their discretion.

    The other aspect is that if you refuse to work away in the future and if this is a requirement in your role, then you may find yourself under disciplinary procedures due to your capability to perform the role: ie: Your role requires you to work away, and you are unable to.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 13th Mar 17, 12:15 PM
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    TBagpuss
    £50 is a fair amount, so it's reasonable for them to ask.

    I'd suggest that you ask whethe they will accept alternative proof, such as a copy of the relevent page of your bank / credit card statement (you can blank out other transactions if you have anything sensitive)

    However, as others have said, it is fairly standard to require receipts and if you can't provide proof of expenditure then it is not unreasonable to expect you to repay the money, as the company has no evidence that the expense was incurred.
    • burnoutbabe
    • By burnoutbabe 18th Mar 17, 11:40 AM
    • 1,289 Posts
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    burnoutbabe
    as a one off, I'd still pay the expense - one assumes you drove to and from some place and the petrol cost of £50 is about what the petrol would cost (or is this a pool car??)
    Else how do they think you got to this location (do they think you walked and are trying to scam them out of petrol money)
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