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  • FIRST POST
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 10th Mar 17, 10:34 PM
    • 9,156Posts
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    bigadaj
    Anyone using collateral p2p?
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 10:34 PM
    Anyone using collateral p2p? 10th Mar 17 at 10:34 PM
    Just after people's experiences where relevant?

    I've withdrawn from Savingstream as the defaults seem to be increasing.

    Have money in Ablrate and Moneything but the deal flow is low with those two and prefer a bit more diversification.

    Rates at Zopa and Ratesetter are too low for me for the perceived risk, well not quite true as I'm waiting for my anniversary for the £1k bonus at Ratesetter.
Page 1
    • masonic
    • By masonic 11th Mar 17, 8:02 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:02 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:02 AM
    Yes, I've been using Collateral for quite a while now. I'm a very happy customer. At the moment, it seems to be the best choice after MT and ABL. During the time I've been with them, they have really excelled in listening to customer feedback and being guided by their user base.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 11th Mar 17, 8:09 AM
    • 814 Posts
    • 1,332 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:09 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:09 AM
    Not invested there yet but also considering pulling the trigger. Looks similarish to Funding Secure.

    I went and had a look about referral bonuses...from https://www.collateraluk.com/faqs/

    16. Can I earn rewards for referrals?
    We will be offering this service very soon and will let you know when it’s available. Below is how it will work.
    When you have set up an account you will be given a personalised link to share with friends, family, colleagues and clients, or to use on your website, blog or social networks. When a new investor joins Collateral using your link we will credit your account with 2% of their initial investment and 1% of any further investments as a thank you.
    Perhaps I will wait for that to kick in. Usually there is something for both the people involved.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 11th Mar 17, 8:20 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:20 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Mar 17, 8:20 AM
    Not invested there yet but also considering pulling the trigger. Looks similarish to Funding Secure.
    Originally posted by fun4everyone
    Yes, except the secondary market is much simpler and up to this point COL is still keeping the majority of its loans non-property backed. I think it was SS and MT they originally tried to emulate.

    Perhaps I will wait for that to kick in. Usually there is something for both the people involved.
    I'm not sure how long that's been there, but discussion around a referral scheme has been going on for quite a long time. I don't see this being implemented until COL generates the necessary deal flow to support an increase in customer base.
    • nushnush
    • By nushnush 11th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    nushnush
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    very happy with collateral, money transfers are very quick in both directions, the comms are first class, not too many property loans so good to diversify, downside is not many new loans recently.
    if you like this kind of loan then i would recommend taking a look at unbolted as well.
    • Broken Biscuits
    • By Broken Biscuits 11th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    • 322 Posts
    • 618 Thanks
    Broken Biscuits
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:39 PM
    I'm using collateral in addition to Savingstream.
    Transfers take about 15 minutes so far from my experience!

    Prefunds are minimal. Maybe as much as £150 if you are lucky. Then you have a few hours from 10am to double whatever the prefund was until it's open to a free for all.

    Lots of loans coming through but due to bid restrictions would take a long time to get heavily invested.

    A good addition to other platforms.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 11th Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:19 PM
    I have been looking at adding Collateral as well to diversify my small P2P portfolio as well, at present I have Ratesetter, Funding Circle and Zopa from the early days.

    How much is the lowest investment amount and roughly how long does it take to match loans?

    It is good to see some positive feedback from users of Collateral as well on here.

    Thanks.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 11th Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    • 53,786 Posts
    • 46,570 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:21 PM
    I've withdrawn from Savingstream as the defaults seem to be increasing.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    What were the nature of the investments you bought into?
    “ “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria. The time of maximum pessimism is the best time to buy, and the time of maximum optimism is the best time to sell.” Sir John Marks Templeton
    • masonic
    • By masonic 11th Mar 17, 3:30 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:30 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 3:30 PM
    I have been looking at adding Collateral as well to diversify my small P2P portfolio as well, at present I have Ratesetter, Funding Circle and Zopa from the early days.

    How much is the lowest investment amount and roughly how long does it take to match loans?
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    I don't think there is a minimum. You can deposit and invest £1 or less if you really wanted to. There is no such thing as loan "matching" on Collateral. Like the other popular platforms at the moment, you bid on individual loans after doing your own due diligence. Loan information for pipeline loans is usually available at least 24 hours before they go live. For new loans you can bid on them in advance. Everything else is done in real time, subject to availability.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 11th Mar 17, 3:49 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    I don't think there is a minimum. You can deposit and invest £1 or less if you really wanted to. There is no such thing as loan "matching" on Collateral. Like the other popular platforms at the moment, you bid on individual loans after doing your own due diligence. Loan information for pipeline loans is usually available at least 24 hours before they go live. For new loans you can bid on them in advance. Everything else is done in real time, subject to availability.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Thanks very much for explaining this. The others I have some P2P set for 5 year loans etc and re-invest payments. I see there is 6 months etc on Collateral, that is good to know lower amounts is possible on this platform.

    I was thinking to test out Collateral with a few shorter term loans like this at say £100 a loan to see how the paltform works with short durations like this and add this to my other 3 P2P platforms, hopefully that would be a reasonable starting strategy for pockets of £100 per loan for shorter periods to diversify from the others as well.

    Thanks again, any more experiences is welcomed
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 11th Mar 17, 11:29 PM
    • 9,156 Posts
    • 5,851 Thanks
    bigadaj
    What were the nature of the investments you bought into?
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    It's all property on there, I've not had a default on any p2p as yet, and was fairly careful with those I placed money into, their valuations were frequently optimistic to say the least and there were questions about their wid due diligence.

    The lending is all secured, many people seem to buy in and then sell out a few months before the end of term, looking to pass onto more naive customers, but just looking like too much hassle to me.

    Liquidity is currently good, or it was until the recent £7 million loan bunged the system up, and even with the defaults no one has lost anything on the platform as yet. It's just that the number of non performing loans has been increasing and for 1% a month then risk to capital and losses are still concerns.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 12th Mar 17, 12:06 AM
    • 53,786 Posts
    • 46,570 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    It's just that the number of non performing loans has been increasing and for 1% a month then risk to capital and losses are still concerns.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    That's simply the nature of business lending. Certainly no benefit to the platform to have bring their reputation into disrepute generated by poor decision making at the outset. .
    “ “Bull markets are born on pessimism, grow on skepticism, mature on optimism, and die on euphoria. The time of maximum pessimism is the best time to buy, and the time of maximum optimism is the best time to sell.” Sir John Marks Templeton
    • masonic
    • By masonic 12th Mar 17, 7:19 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    That's simply the nature of business lending. Certainly no benefit to the platform to have bring their reputation into disrepute generated by poor decision making at the outset. .
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Note: the following information is about SavingStream, not the subject of this thread, Collateral.

    It's not all business lending at SS. Loans are to a mixture of businesses and individuals. In fact, for one of the loans that went into default, the platform claimed the borrower was an individual when it was in fact a company and they also claimed the loan was 70% LTV when in fact they advanced the borrower 100% of the purchase price of the property plus funds to cover the first 6 months of interest.

    For the above loan, the platform also claimed planning permission had been granted for a development on the land adjoining the property when it hadn't and when the planning decision eventually went against the borrower, they were able to simply walk away from the loan having not risked/lost a penny of their own money, This left the platform (who, incidentally, had an undisclosed 10% stake in the borrowing company) to dispose of the property. The property was valued at £2.4m, but eventually sold after 9 months for £1.3m (purchase registered at the land registry when the money was lent was £1.45m, so it wasn't a bad result, but the valuation was way off because the valuer was misled at to the planning permission status and didn't bother to check).

    So I think there's plenty to bring the platform into disrepute in the handling of the above loan by the platform, and there's about half a dozen other examples of misleading statements being made about other loans.

    Non performing loans (in which interest is in arrears and not being serviced by the borrower) now represent 25%* of the total loan book. For a long time, this was hidden from lenders on the platform, with the platform itself servicing interest payments to lenders without any mention that the borrowers weren't paying interest.

    * this figure is now out of date. Currently 46% of the SS loan book is in interest arrears
    Last edited by masonic; 12-03-2017 at 10:14 AM.
    • mapk
    • By mapk 12th Mar 17, 8:45 AM
    • 140 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    mapk
    Note: the following information is about SavingStream, not the subject of this thread, Collateral.

    It's not all business lending at SS. Loans are to a mixture of businesses and individuals. In fact, for one of the loans that went into default, the platform claimed the borrower was an individual when it was in fact a company and they also claimed the loan was 70% LTV when in fact they advanced the borrower 100% of the purchase price of the property plus funds to cover the first 6 months of interest.

    For the above loan, the platform also claimed planning permission had been granted for a development on the land adjoining the property when it hadn't and when the planning decision eventually went against the borrower, they were able to simply walk away from the loan having not risked/lost a penny of their own money, This left the platform (who, incidentally, had an undisclosed 10% stake in the borrowing company) to dispose of the property. The property was valued at £2.4m, but eventually sold after 9 months for £1.3m (purchase registered at the land registry when the money was lent was £1.45m, so it wasn't a bad result, but the valuation was way off because the valuer was misled at to the planning permission status and didn't bother to check).

    So I think there's plenty to bring the platform into disrepute in the handling of the above loan by the platform, and there's about half a dozen other examples of misleading statements being made about other loans.

    Non performing loans (in which interest is in arrears and not being serviced by the borrower) now represent 25% of the total loan book. For a long time, this was hidden from lenders on the platform, with the platform itself servicing interest payments to lenders without any mention that the borrowers weren't paying interest.
    Originally posted by masonic
    The new SS descriptors aren't exactly explicit either. I may be wrong here, but understand that those loans labelled IA (Interest accruing. Interest is only payable if enough capital is received) are best avoided. Perhaps someone could clarify this and whether SBL status loans (Serviced by Lendy) are also ones to steer clear of.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 12th Mar 17, 8:53 AM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    The new SS descriptors aren't exactly explicit either. I may be wrong here, but understand that those loans labelled IA (Interest accruing. Interest is only payable if enough capital is received) are best avoided. Perhaps someone could clarify this and whether SBL status loans (Serviced by Lendy) are also ones to steer clear of.
    Originally posted by mapk
    Performing loans are the ones marked IOA (interest on account). All others are non-performing to various degrees, Loans will not be formally defaulted until they are >180 days in interest arrears.

    Interest for loans marked SBL are being paid by the platform, but in my view should be steered clear of. I wouldn't hold anything on the platform at the moment, because the platform risk (i.e. risk of collapse) is too high, but if I were ok with that, I'd not hold any loans with with less than 90 days remaining term.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 13th Mar 17, 2:50 PM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    JohnRo
    I still have a few £K with SS which I'm slowly selling out of and to me the loan book schedule is starting to look like a slow motion train wreck.

    Surely there's going to come a point, if current trends are any indication, where Lendy simply won't have the means to hold it all together?
    'We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.' ― Albert Einstein
    'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.' ― Aldous Huxley
    • masonic
    • By masonic 13th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    Surely there's going to come a point, if current trends are any indication, where Lendy simply won't have the means to hold it all together?
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    That seems increasingly likely. I made a quick exit because I think long before the wheels come off there will be liquidity problems on the secondary market.

    I think there are still a lot of people buying into loans in the belief they will receive monthly interest when in fact they will not, and may receive no interest at all. When that realisation hits home I expect there will be a run on all affected loans.

    The FCA is also likely to object to current arrangements where Lendy is using its own capital to fund interest payments and top up the provision fund. It may require further changes to the T&Cs that protect Lendy's finances at the expense of its customers.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 13th Mar 17, 5:32 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    Out of interest those using Collateral, what average amounts would you normally invest per loan?

    I have started off with a couple so far, £100 on the first and then £25 on the second and thinking to now go with £25 each loan to build the spread up. It'll be interesting to see how this platform works now a couple are underway.

    Thanks
    • masonic
    • By masonic 13th Mar 17, 5:38 PM
    • 9,126 Posts
    • 6,271 Thanks
    masonic
    Out of interest those using Collateral, what average amounts would you normally invest per loan?
    Originally posted by takesyourchances
    No more than 1% of the total money I have invested in P2P across all platforms I use. Usually less due to limits on new loans. I started off at £25-50 per loan until I had reasonable diversification within Collateral.
    • takesyourchances
    • By takesyourchances 13th Mar 17, 6:07 PM
    • 388 Posts
    • 220 Thanks
    takesyourchances
    No more than 1% of the total money I have invested in P2P across all platforms I use. Usually less due to limits on new loans. I started off at £25-50 per loan until I had reasonable diversification within Collateral.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Thanks for that, I think I will stick to £25 going forward for the meantime with Collateral to build the diversification up within that platform, my Funding Circle account is no more than 1% per loan and it is at over 100 companies now and then I have my other P2P with Ratesetter and Zopa.

    I like the interface for using Collateral as well from signing up. Thanks again!
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