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  • FIRST POST
    • PerplexedKat
    • By PerplexedKat 10th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
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    PerplexedKat
    Occupiers Consent Form - Will it delay exchange?
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 8:28 PM
    Occupiers Consent Form - Will it delay exchange? 10th Mar 17 at 8:28 PM
    Long time lurker, just joined as we need some advice on the Occupiers Consent Form.

    Snapshot: married, FTB have mortgage offer with Natwest, husband applied as single purchaser and I have to sign Occupier Consent Form. Just been informed by the useless and painfully slow conveyancer one week before exchange that I must take legal advice, have the signature witnessed by a solicitor as it is a condition of the Natwest mortgage. Jolly nice to receive the letter dated 7th March today at 5.30pm when I got home from work. H called NW tonight and they are checking the T & C's of mortgage offer to see whether I do HAVE to take legal advice or can sign, have the form witnessed without legal advise, NW will accept it, and we can proceed with purchase.

    Will not signing the form delay the exchange, ( I will sign the form, just if I need legal I may not get an appointment for a few days) or will they need the form by completion? Can I say on the form have not taken legal advise as I understand what this form means. Developer wants exchange by 20th March. I'm worried it's all going pear shaped. Any advice gratefully received.
Page 1
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Mar 17, 9:29 PM
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    davidmcn
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 9:29 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 9:29 PM
    Nobody needs it at exchange, unless your husband is concerned you won't have signed it in time for completion!

    H called NW tonight and they are checking the T & C's of mortgage offer to see whether I do HAVE to take legal advice
    Originally posted by PerplexedKat
    Doesn't he have a copy of the mortgage offer yet?
    Last edited by davidmcn; 10-03-2017 at 10:13 PM.
    • PerplexedKat
    • By PerplexedKat 10th Mar 17, 10:57 PM
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    PerplexedKat
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 10:57 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 10:57 PM
    He does yes, and we have been through it tonight and nowhere does it say the offer is bound by the occupiers forms and if so that the form be signed subject to legal advice first.

    NW advised us to refer to clause 4.06, but when she looked at the terms on H offer, she found clause 4.06 is missing and will have to call us back on Monday to clarify.

    To be honest I am happy to sign, understand that if H doesn't pay the Mortgage I have no claim on the property, but if (god forbid) the worst happens, the insurances cover the outstanding mortgage and our wills manage the inheritance of the estate to the one.
    • Xyzzy
    • By Xyzzy 10th Mar 17, 11:20 PM
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    Xyzzy
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:20 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:20 PM
    The CML handbook covers it- section 7.3 https://www.cml.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/national-westminster-bank-plc/#C8779 - this is the 'guide' that yor solicitor should be following and confirms it just needs a signature by completion. If you know exactly what your doing I'm not sure that legal advice is essential, it's all pretty standard stuff.
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    • PerplexedKat
    • By PerplexedKat 11th Mar 17, 12:33 AM
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    PerplexedKat
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:33 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Mar 17, 12:33 AM
    Thanks Xyzzy, is there a statement I could write on the form under my signature that says words in effect of "I have not sought legal advise and forego a right to recourse etc etc"

    H will wait for NW to respond and he will aldo talk to conveyancer on Monday too, she states in her letter to me in bold and underlined I MUST seek legal advise.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th Mar 17, 7:36 AM
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    davidmcn
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 7:36 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Mar 17, 7:36 AM
    Thanks Xyzzy, is there a statement I could write on the form under my signature that says words in effect of "I have not sought legal advise and forego a right to recourse etc etc"
    Originally posted by PerplexedKat
    If the lender's policy is that you need to have had advice (I don't know whether it is) then that is what they'll require. The whole point is to make sure that you really have been told what your rights are (and that your husband hasn't "assisted" you to sign it).

    While I'm not doubting that you fully understand what your occupancy rights are, we see here plenty of people who think they know their rights and then go on to demonstrate that they haven't a clue.

    What is true is that your husband's solicitor is professionally required to recommend to you that you seek independent advice, so it's possible she's just overstated that if she hasn't actually said the bank needs you to get separate advice.
    Last edited by davidmcn; 11-03-2017 at 8:15 AM.
    • da_rule
    • By da_rule 11th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
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    da_rule
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:08 AM
    Whenever you send a document for signing to someone you are not representing (and you are sending it to them directly rather than their solicitor), it is common/good practice to include a "we recommend you seek independent legal advice" clause in the letter (I think it's even in the Law Society best practice guidance to do so). Whether you opt to do this or not is your call. If you read 8.1 of the CML (link above) you will see it says that the solicitor should "strongly recommend" that a non-owning adult occupier seeks independent legal advice. If doesn't say that they have to insist you take the advice, just that they have to recommend. As for all they know you could be a solicitor yourself or have already obtained advice.
    • PerplexedKat
    • By PerplexedKat 11th Mar 17, 10:22 AM
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    PerplexedKat
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:22 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Mar 17, 10:22 AM
    If the lender's policy is that you need to have had advice (I don't know whether it is) then that is what they'll require. The whole point is to make sure that you really have been told what your rights are (and that your husband hasn't "assisted" you to sign it).

    While I'm not doubting that you fully understand what your occupancy rights are, we see here plenty of people who think they know their rights and then go on to demonstrate that they haven't a clue.
    I understand that davidmcn. First glance I thought the form stopped me from inheriting the property and I went into meltdown. When composed I read and found the details surrounding the inclusion of these forms based on a 1980's case between a bank and someone and the bank lost. I see why the banks need that safeguard, and I am happy to sign. I even spoke to a local Conveyancer who explained all to me over the phone, but they won't sign the form. There is one solicitor in a 20 mile radius who will do the signature, no-one else I was assured will touch it. I have his details so will call on Monday.

    My gripe was the lateness of the request for legal advice, and whether the house will fall through if I don't get an appointment soon to get legal advice before exchange/completion. Sol even said in the letter she held off sending all letters/searches to us so she could do it in one go, and I was extremely worried it would affect the exchange date. Between her and the developer messing up the HTB forms what should be a relative, straightforward FTB no chain new build sale is becoming a nightmare. Developers say exchange must happen by the 20th March.

    We have vowed never, ever to move again. It will be our forever home.
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