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  • FIRST POST
    • misterthrifty
    • By misterthrifty 10th Mar 17, 4:58 PM
    • 351Posts
    • 81Thanks
    misterthrifty
    Extra RAM to speed up PC
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 4:58 PM
    Extra RAM to speed up PC 10th Mar 17 at 4:58 PM
    Hi

    I have an old Hi-Grade PC running Windows 10 which is getting a bit slow. I carried out a check on the Crucial website and it currently has 2x 1GB DDR PC2 5300 memory sticks. My question is, would upgrading to 2GB sticks make a substantial improvement and what specification should I be looking for to upgrade for a reasonable price and where to look?

    TIA
    Mr T
Page 3
    • were
    • By were 15th Mar 17, 12:35 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    were
    Unsure about purchasing a second had SSD, unless really, really cheap. We had some new 400G SSDseagates at work, cost £1700, in under a week it was dead, so got another, and less than a week later... after the third one, it became a battle for account managers. Supplies are quoting 2 years, but only really used for booting, so majority have lasted longer.

    Silicon is quick, but the life is not great, and it does not deteriorate in a way that gives a warning, it just dies. I've also avoided hybrid drives at all cost, as they have the worst properties of both, and just a world of pain waiting to be unleashed.
    • toshi
    • By toshi 15th Mar 17, 12:45 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    toshi
    The result is that the basic ICH7 not that great, but some may get working, on others ssd drives are not tolerated by the system, non will reach the potential of AHCI machines, and at this age and sata version the bus possibly has limitations too.
    Originally posted by were
    It seems you have mentioned about chipset compatibility/ performance in terms of data transfer. Well any slowest SATA SSD still will run much faster than hard disk. Simply slowest SSD seektime is 100 faster than fastest Hard Disk.

    My motherboard chipset uses notorious NVidia MCP79, (same as some MAC notebooks) Because of hardware bug, my SSDs are always recognised as SATA1, even NVidia MCP79 supports SATA2.

    Is this serious disadvantage ? Well not really, I did not realise NVidia SATA chipset bug until I run some benchmark test, as SSD performance improvement was so dramatic.

    If you compared my SATA1 SSD and SATA2 HARD DISK, sequential transfer speed benchmark is more or less same, but this is not the end of story. Most of Benchmark uses sequential transfer speed, but real computing (like computer boot) accesses far more smaller many many files. Probably IOPS is far more important than sequential transfer speed.

    This article shows there are no practical performance difference between SATA2 and SATA3, probably SATA1 is not that behind.

    "Upgrade Advice: Does Your Fast SSD Really Need SATA 6Gb/s? "
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sata-6gbps-performance-sata-3gbps,3110-7.html


    SSD price remains high, I bought 256GB SSD around 60 pound last year, but now 90 pound, due to exchange rate and supply problems, more demand from mobile phone use .... Hopefully price will come down towards the end of this year..

    Happy computing
    Last edited by toshi; 15-03-2017 at 12:49 AM.
    • EdwardB
    • By EdwardB 15th Mar 17, 6:41 AM
    • 412 Posts
    • 321 Thanks
    EdwardB
    SSD or die tryin!

    Actually good points about speed difference between 6mb and 3mb



    However, not so sure I agree that 1.5mb not making such a difference.

    Still the most valid point you make is that of price.

    I spoke to a guy in memory supply chain, his business is really suffering because of these high prices.

    He said it is that the memory is in massive demand from pc, mobile and other kit manufacturers.

    He said that now that they have a taste of the higher prices they would rather like to keep them high.

    So it will take less demand to lower prices.

    Regardless of performance, I would not spend £90.

    £15 for RAM upgrade and an overclock. This is after all a money saving website!
    Last edited by EdwardB; 15-03-2017 at 6:55 AM.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue.
    • EdwardB
    • By EdwardB 15th Mar 17, 7:15 AM
    • 412 Posts
    • 321 Thanks
    EdwardB
    Unsure about purchasing a second had SSD, unless really, really cheap. We had some new 400G SSDseagates at work, cost £1700, in under a week it was dead, so got another, and less than a week later... after the third one, it became a battle for account managers. Supplies are quoting 2 years, but only really used for booting, so majority have lasted longer.

    Silicon is quick, but the life is not great, and it does not deteriorate in a way that gives a warning, it just dies. I've also avoided hybrid drives at all cost, as they have the worst properties of both, and just a world of pain waiting to be unleashed.
    Originally posted by were
    Tell me more about this hybrid hell, I have not seen these go bad yet, seem the SSD's go bad and it is as you say. Does the HD remain usable if the RAM dies? I can imagine a worst case scenario being bad data being written so data becoming corrupt.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue.
    • toshi
    • By toshi 15th Mar 17, 8:13 AM
    • 94 Posts
    • 53 Thanks
    toshi
    SSD or die tryin!


    Originally posted by EdwardB
    Please note this is the Jan 2012 article, Unlike Harddisk, SSD technology is still developing. The current models are much faster than 2012 models. (even if you uses SATA1/SATA2 interface)

    Let me added all benchmarks here




    • were
    • By were 15th Mar 17, 10:34 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    were
    toshi, yes SSD are faster, but on an old machine, if the SSD actually works, with an old ide bus, but with sata compatibility, granted it will be faster, especially on paper when you doing the calculations, but in some cases it is a slight, unnoticeable increase for a large exchange of cash.

    On the other hand you may have a newer version the NM10/ICH7, or an older raid version, but even then your bios may not be able support it, and a compatible driver to bypass it may not be available.

    Yes, on a more modern laptop with newer chipset, ssd is the way to go for speed, and you do get tremendous performance, though not as good as PC-express SSD cards.

    This is what you want, http://www.geek.com/chips/new-intel-storage-is-1000-times-faster-than-your-ssd-1629656/ just dont put it on an old pc and expect bench marked performance
    • psychic teabag
    • By psychic teabag 15th Mar 17, 10:54 AM
    • 2,572 Posts
    • 1,518 Thanks
    psychic teabag
    One question - when I was looking into this for MIL, I came across a feature of windows which seems to allow use of an sdcard or flash drive as (I think) effectively a paging device. Is that helpful ?

    Can't remember what it was called now.. hang on... ah, yes - "ReadyBoost". Has anyone tried that and found it useful ?
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 15th Mar 17, 11:13 AM
    • 13,827 Posts
    • 73,634 Thanks
    GDB2222
    One question - when I was looking into this for MIL, I came across a feature of windows which seems to allow use of an sdcard or flash drive as (I think) effectively a paging device. Is that helpful ?

    Can't remember what it was called now.. hang on... ah, yes - "ReadyBoost". Has anyone tried that and found it useful ?
    Originally posted by psychic teabag

    Very easy to try out.
    • Put any USB stick in.
    • In 'This PC', right click the device and select properties, then the ReadyBoost tab.

    On my PC, windows refuses to allow ReadyBoost. It says my PC is fast enough already. More to the point, the USB device is slower than the SSD.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • keith969
    • By keith969 15th Mar 17, 8:37 PM
    • 1,157 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    keith969
    I spoke to a guy in memory supply chain, his business is really suffering because of these high prices.

    He said it is that the memory is in massive demand from pc, mobile and other kit manufacturers.

    He said that now that they have a taste of the higher prices they would rather like to keep them high.

    So it will take less demand to lower prices.
    Originally posted by EdwardB
    Sorry, but there is no Opec equivalent in the flash business to keep prices high. As 3D NAND flash comes on stream prices will drop. It may not happen until late this year, but it will happen. That's the nature of the business, when demand is high, capex is high to build new fabs, that leads to more capacity, price drops...
    Days are made with waterfall colours
    • emptybox
    • By emptybox 16th Mar 17, 12:58 AM
    • 252 Posts
    • 106 Thanks
    emptybox
    Sorry, but there is no Opec equivalent in the flash business to keep prices high. As 3D NAND flash comes on stream prices will drop. It may not happen until late this year, but it will happen. That's the nature of the business, when demand is high, capex is high to build new fabs, that leads to more capacity, price drops...
    Originally posted by keith969
    This seems to suggest there's going to be a price rise.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/brace-yourself-for-a-solid-state-drive-price-hike-of-10-percent-or-more/
    • keith969
    • By keith969 16th Mar 17, 1:19 AM
    • 1,157 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    keith969
    Originally posted by emptybox
    Short term yes, longer term no. The long term trend over the years has been consistently downwards as bit density has risen.
    Days are made with waterfall colours
    • misterthrifty
    • By misterthrifty 16th Mar 17, 7:38 AM
    • 351 Posts
    • 81 Thanks
    misterthrifty
    Thanks for all of the information, I have understood most of it.

    I have ordered the replacement RAM for £15 and I will see what difference that makes. I will then look at overclocking, though this may stretch my knowledge abit, and longer term I will look out for an SSD if there is still improvement required and the price is right.

    Thanks everyone.
    • bertiewhite
    • By bertiewhite 16th Mar 17, 8:14 AM
    • 382 Posts
    • 355 Thanks
    bertiewhite
    I know I'm late to this thread and it may be irrelevant but I was always told to think of the CPU, HDD & RAM like this:

    CPU - how quickly you can move round the office
    HDD - the big filing cabinet over the other side of the room
    RAM - an IN/OUT tray on your desk

    Therefore if your IN/OUT tray is too small then you are having to get up out of your seat more to go to the filing cabinet and upgrading the CPU means you are just running to the filing cabinet quicker.

    If you get a bigger IN/OUT tray though, you can store more paperwork without getting up as often and only have to go to the filing cabinet every now and again.

    Does this analogy still work?
    • NiftyDigits
    • By NiftyDigits 16th Mar 17, 9:35 AM
    • 10,287 Posts
    • 4,378 Thanks
    NiftyDigits
    Thanks for all of the information, I have understood most of it.

    I have ordered the replacement RAM for £15 and I will see what difference that makes. I will then look at overclocking, though this may stretch my knowledge abit, and longer term I will look out for an SSD if there is still improvement required and the price is right.

    Thanks everyone.
    Originally posted by misterthrifty
    Forget about overclocking. The usual bottleneck will be the hard drive. Your CPU is fine as it is.
    Was your Windows 10 installation a clean install from boot?
    • were
    • By were 16th Mar 17, 9:44 AM
    • 415 Posts
    • 253 Thanks
    were
    I know I'm late to this thread and it may be irrelevant but I was always told to think of the CPU, HDD & RAM like this:

    CPU - how quickly you can move round the office
    HDD - the big filing cabinet over the other side of the room
    RAM - an IN/OUT tray on your desk
    Originally posted by bertiewhite
    Slightly wrong, more like

    CPU - the workers in the office. One guy takes longer than two to do the same task. Two guys can do more, and faster, but often not as efficient as one guy. Two guys may be dependent on each other to get the job done. Sometimes they can do different things together, but one often finished before the other, and may have to wait, but he may be able to do something else in the mean time, but this depends on the situation.
    BUS - how quickly you can move around the building, and get to work. Lifts, locked doors, traffic lights and other traffic slow you down.
    HDD - the big filing cabinet over the other side of the room
    RAM - an IN/OUT tray on your desk
    Last edited by were; 16-03-2017 at 9:55 AM.
    • pvtILLY
    • By pvtILLY 29th Mar 17, 2:20 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pvtILLY
    Putting in more memory will always be beneficial to making a PC perform better as it allows more information to be held in ram, meaning, the CPU doesn't have to keep fetching from the page file or hard drive. As for speed it all depends on the speed of the ram modules and the supported speed of the motherboard. Cost is also the crucial factor. I would recommend using CPU-Z application to get information on the current hardware.
    • John Gray
    • By John Gray 29th Mar 17, 8:35 PM
    • 4,943 Posts
    • 2,578 Thanks
    John Gray
    Putting in more memory will always be beneficial to making a PC perform better as it allows more information to be held in ram, meaning, the CPU doesn't have to keep fetching from the page file or hard drive.
    Originally posted by Brian Illingworth
    That's true - up to the point when 'all' the required information is stored in RAM! The "law of diminishing returns" operates; after a certain point adding more memory (for 64-bit systems, not 32-bit systems) reduces the paging by smaller and smaller amounts.
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