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  • FIRST POST
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 10th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
    • 2,425Posts
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    thelawnet
    Paypal refusing to consider authenticity of an item
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
    Paypal refusing to consider authenticity of an item 10th Mar 17 at 2:55 PM
    So I bought some Sennheiser headphones on ebay.

    3 months later they stop working. I try to claim under guarantee. Oh, they're fake.

    Post evidence of the same on Paypal website, including photos from original listing, links to Sennheiser website, etc.

    Dispute resolved in my favour as

    "The listing didn't accurately describe the item's value."

    "After careful review, we have determined that you are eligible for a refund. To qualify for this refund, please send the items whose claims were granted back to the seller in their original condition and keep your tracking information. You are responsible for postage and packaging costs."

    So I called them up and they said 'yeah actually we don't bother considering authenticity, so you can just send it back and get a refund'.
Page 1
    • custardy
    • By custardy 10th Mar 17, 2:57 PM
    • 31,892 Posts
    • 26,617 Thanks
    custardy
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 2:57 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 2:57 PM
    So I bought some Sennheiser headphones on ebay.

    3 months later they stop working. I try to claim under guarantee. Oh, they're fake.

    Post evidence of the same on Paypal website, including photos from original listing, links to Sennheiser website, etc.

    Dispute resolved in my favour as

    "The listing didn't accurately describe the item's value."

    "After careful review, we have determined that you are eligible for a refund. To qualify for this refund, please send the items whose claims were granted back to the seller in their original condition and keep your tracking information. You are responsible for postage and packaging costs."

    So I called them up and they said 'yeah actually we don't bother considering authenticity, so you can just send it back and get a refund'.
    Originally posted by thelawnet
    You are being refunded.
    What do you want beyond that?
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 10th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    • 2,887 Posts
    • 1,686 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:00 PM
    But PayPal are backing you up. They have put the sellers funds on hold until you get your refund. In cases like this, you need to ask yourself, what is the alternative solution? Are you really proposing PayPal have a distribution centre where all the thousands of disputed items could turn up for examination and a team of experts waiting by?
    If the supplier is in the UK, you need to lodge a complaint with trading standards.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
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    thelawnet
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    You are being refunded.
    What do you want beyond that?
    Originally posted by custardy
    Not to send the item back to the fraudster at my own cost?
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
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    thelawnet
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:09 PM
    In cases like this, you need to ask yourself, what is the alternative solution?
    Well I pointed to the spelling mistakes visible in the packaging on the original item, it doesn't require a brain surgeon or an antiques expert.

    If the supplier is in the UK, you need to lodge a complaint with trading standards.
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    Tried that in the past, nigh on impossible.
    Last edited by thelawnet; 10-03-2017 at 3:14 PM.
    • Pierre De Grenoble
    • By Pierre De Grenoble 10th Mar 17, 3:16 PM
    • 331 Posts
    • 196 Thanks
    Pierre De Grenoble
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:16 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:16 PM
    You are being refunded.
    What do you want beyond that?
    Originally posted by custardy

    If it was me, I wouldn't be happy at having to pay return tracked shipping. ( it's not the amount it's the principle)
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 10th Mar 17, 3:45 PM
    • 2,887 Posts
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    ballisticbrian
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:45 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:45 PM
    Well I pointed to the spelling mistakes visible in the packaging on the original item, it doesn't require a brain surgeon or an antiques expert.
    Then you could have opened an eBay SNAD case straight away rather than wait 3 months, and the return postage would have been paid.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 10th Mar 17, 3:50 PM
    • 2,425 Posts
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    thelawnet
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:50 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:50 PM
    Then you could have opened an eBay SNAD case straight away rather than wait 3 months, and the return postage would have been paid.
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    how could I have done that if I didn't know they were fake?
    • mrcol1000
    • By mrcol1000 10th Mar 17, 3:56 PM
    • 4,193 Posts
    • 3,623 Thanks
    mrcol1000
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:56 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 3:56 PM
    how could I have done that if I didn't know they were fake?
    Originally posted by thelawnet
    The spelling mistakes on the packaging may have been your first clue. PayPal don't have time, resources or will to fully investigate whether items are real or not. They can't just go on the view of a customer service rep because that would open them up to endless problems. Do you really expect them to spend time and money consulting with experts just for your case?

    Accept your refund, return them to the seller and move on with your life. If they sell more fakes then it is up to the recipient to deal with it. As suggested if they are UK you could always complain to trading standards. They are set up to investigate things like this and regularly prosecute sellers inculding those on Ebay who sell fakes.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Mar 17, 4:43 PM
    • 10,132 Posts
    • 6,814 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    It is always a prudent step to understand what the outcome could be when opening a case.

    With Ebay (and you were well out of time) you will get a returns label.

    With Paypal, they extend the timeframe to 180 days from purchase but you have to fund the return.

    However, Paypal do offer a "returns on us" scheme. Do you qualify? It depends on that date and details of your payment.

    https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

    Next time, buy better and/or research the outcome of any dispute before you dig your heels in.
    "I suggest you read who's thread this is and you will find its MINE". sic
    • skintpaul
    • By skintpaul 11th Mar 17, 9:16 AM
    • 1,396 Posts
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    skintpaul
    surely once return has been proved to pp (give tracking number), a refund would be made by them from the money they are holding?
    breathe in, breathe out- You're alive! Everything else is a bonus, right? RIGHT??
    • soolin
    • By soolin 11th Mar 17, 10:01 AM
    • 58,437 Posts
    • 41,362 Thanks
    soolin
    surely once return has been proved to pp (give tracking number), a refund would be made by them from the money they are holding?
    Originally posted by skintpaul
    That's right and as above, actually the refund will be made as soon as an attempted delivery or delivery back to seller can be shown using tracking.

    That still doesn't get the return postage back though which is what the latter posts are about.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • zerog
    • By zerog 11th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
    • 2,225 Posts
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    zerog
    Is this a new policy to avoid getting media attention in case the buyer is a fraudster? I thought ebay didn't want people to return fake items.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/04/paypal-buyer-destroys-violin


    An acquaintance bought something like the following from a reputable business seller (high feedback, long ebay history) yet it turned out to be fake, however, he only got refunded after involving the police, and both paypal and the police said he could keep it.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292051757703

    (This one is collection only which is sensible - do your own checks. I believe the price is deliberately high in case someone decides to pay by paypal)
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 11th Mar 17, 2:40 PM
    • 10,132 Posts
    • 6,814 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Is this a new policy to avoid getting media attention in case the buyer is a fraudster? I thought ebay didn't want people to return fake items.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/04/paypal-buyer-destroys-violin

    Originally posted by zerog
    That article is 5 years old.
    "I suggest you read who's thread this is and you will find its MINE". sic
    • thelawnet
    • By thelawnet 12th Mar 17, 12:12 AM
    • 2,425 Posts
    • 1,683 Thanks
    thelawnet
    That's right and as above, actually the refund will be made as soon as an attempted delivery or delivery back to seller can be shown using tracking.

    That still doesn't get the return postage back though which is what the latter posts are about.
    Originally posted by soolin
    That wasn't so much the point tbh, I was more exercised about Ebay/Paypal listings for this item being all (from what I can see) counterfeit, then making £££s in fees, and not doing a damn thing to shut it down, even when pointed out.
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 12th Mar 17, 8:28 AM
    • 2,887 Posts
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    ballisticbrian
    That wasn't so much the point tbh, I was more exercised about Ebay/Paypal listings for this item being all (from what I can see) counterfeit, then making £££s in fees, and not doing a damn thing to shut it down, even when pointed out.
    If I just said that all my competitors were selling fakes, eBay please take them all down, do you think they would do it? I could be onto a good money spinner as I would have no competition. Again, they would need a way to check these claims out.
    The system eBay have put in place is the feedback system, and the "report seller" feature but despite many of us on this site complaining about unfair feedback, you'd be surprised how many people don't leave negative feedback.
    I recently had someone buy my product and sent me a message saying, I had to buy yours because the cheaper one from seller x is used off cuts, and I asked which seller it was. When I went to look, the buyer had left them a false positive feedback which won't be noted by absolutely anyone after it's moved down the page (couple of hours).
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • Altarf
    • By Altarf 12th Mar 17, 9:51 AM
    • 2,775 Posts
    • 1,634 Thanks
    Altarf
    So I bought some Sennheiser headphones on ebay.

    3 months later they stop working. I try to claim under guarantee. Oh, they're fake.
    Originally posted by thelawnet
    You are surprised? Really?

    I thought everyone knew that all premium branded products listed on eBay are the same knock offs you would find at a dodgy boot sale.
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