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    • ftsos
    • By ftsos 10th Mar 17, 12:01 PM
    • 87Posts
    • 6Thanks
    ftsos
    Please help house purchase mess with Freehold
    • #1
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:01 PM
    Please help house purchase mess with Freehold 10th Mar 17 at 12:01 PM
    Hello Everyone,

    I have a very bad situation. I bought a property about 4 years ago thinking it was Freehold. I would not have bought it if I thought it was Leasehold. Recently, I have found out that it is Leasehold. I remember clearly asking the solicitors to confirm with me that it was a Freehold which they did. Now, somewhere along the line a mistake was made.

    I am extremely angry at myself if it was just me who made the mistake. However, I am 100% sure that the solicitors confirmed to me that it was a Freehold. I normally send questions to them via email. Now the main problem is that I no longer have those old emails as an old company email was used. Is there anyway I can get the solicitors to send me the email correspondence? For example using the Data Protection Act etc? I feel if I can get copies of those old emails I can prove my case.

    Also I am concerned if the solicitors had a mistake, they won't want to share the emails they conversations they had with me.

    I am really stuck, and need some advice please. I am so angry at myself and I am wondering how I let this happen!
Page 1
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    • 5,144 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:07 PM
    Have you checked the freehold title? We've had at least one problem recently where it turned out the buyer owned both the freehold and leasehold.

    In answer to your question, yes your solicitor should still have your file and you're entitled to a copy of it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • 39,248 Posts
    • 44,592 Thanks
    G_M
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:08 PM
    I would be astonished if, at some point during the conveyancing process, the solicitors had not sent you a copy of the property title to review.

    This is standard practice, indeed fundamental to conveyancing.

    And the Title would have said clearly "All that Freehold property at [address]" or "Leasehold".

    Of course, if you did not read the Title carefully, or at all............

    Pay 6 (3 each) and download both the leasehold and freehold Titles fom the Land Registry here.
    Last edited by G_M; 10-03-2017 at 12:10 PM.
    • Rain Shadow
    • By Rain Shadow 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • 1,716 Posts
    • 3,039 Thanks
    Rain Shadow
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    Is there nothing in the actual paperwork you were sent?


    Edit: Beaten to it by G_M.
    You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friend's nose.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • 8,993 Posts
    • 11,234 Thanks
    hazyjo
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    Was it a new build?


    Check this (free) link to see if it says it's freehold/leasehold/both. You'll need to register:


    https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/drv/search


    Jx
    2017 wins: Opera tickets; film preview; lipstick; Ideal Home Show tickets + afternoon tea & bottle of Champagne; 2 cases of NKD; notebook; bath rack; book; film Premiere; Broadchurch DVDs
    • ftsos
    • By ftsos 10th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    ftsos
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:12 PM
    @davidmcn , I have downloaded a copy from the Land Registry, and they are right, and it does show them as the Freehold owner. However, many of the properties on the estate was sold as Freehold and I know this. And I repeatedly asked my solicitors the question "is it freehold" to which they said yes. I have to be honest, I get lost in legal paperwork, so hence why I have to employ a solicitor to interpret it for me. So if they tell me something is true, I will take it so, as I have employed them to check the documents properly.

    Now, there is 2 points here:

    1) How do I go about asking for email correspondence between me and them? Are they obliged to give it to me. As a law firm I believe they have to keep records for many years, and have them backed up.

    2) Secondly, say I was right, and they told me it was Freehold, then do I have case against them or someone?
    • ftsos
    • By ftsos 10th Mar 17, 12:16 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    ftsos
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:16 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:16 PM
    To everyone, as I said, I could have messed up badly. And I know that. I am seriously angry at myself. However, I can't get myself worked up about it because I ended up hospital last weekend because something to do with heart etc.

    However, I know my gut instinct, I am fairly confident that I was told that it was Freehold by them. Now you are right, they could have sent me the title deed and I may not have read it properly, if they had said to me its a Freehold and I didn't read the title deed properly, do I have any case, because I relying on them to interpret the title deed for me.
    • eddddy
    • By eddddy 10th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • 4,480 Posts
    • 4,147 Thanks
    eddddy
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    You can make a Subject Access Request to the solicitors for a fee of 10.

    They then have to provide you with a copy of all information they have about you, which should include any email correspondence to or from you.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • 5,144 Posts
    • 4,794 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    @davidmcn , I have downloaded a copy from the Land Registry, and they are right, and it does show them as the Freehold owner.
    Originally posted by ftsos
    Who are "them"?

    1) How do I go about asking for email correspondence between me and them?
    Just ask your solicitors. There aren't any magic words. Check your facts first before worrying about the next step.
    • gembert83
    • By gembert83 10th Mar 17, 12:57 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    gembert83
    Just ask your solicitors for a copy of the correspondence between them and you. Solicitors are obliged to keep your files (some comply with this by scanning it onto their system so an electronic copy is available). Just give them a call or an email and request a copy of the contract report/letter that reported on the legal title so you can see what they advised you.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Mar 17, 1:01 PM
    • 5,144 Posts
    • 4,794 Thanks
    davidmcn
    You can make a Subject Access Request to the solicitors for a fee of 10.

    They then have to provide you with a copy of all information they have about you, which should include any email correspondence to or from you.
    Originally posted by eddddy
    True that clients are a data subject, but their rights go beyond that - effectively the solicitor's file is their file, so they're entitled to the whole thing.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 10th Mar 17, 1:04 PM
    • 13,490 Posts
    • 13,031 Thanks
    Guest101
    How long is the lease? I mean if it's 999 years with a token ground rent does it really make any difference?
    • ftsos
    • By ftsos 10th Mar 17, 2:07 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    ftsos
    Okay, I will do my best to respond to all of you:

    @G_M I am normally very thorough. I have OCR scanned paperwork going back more than 10 years because I am also self employed. have gone through the TP1 document from the Land Registry, and it says nothing about a Lease. Now I may be ignorant in legal speak, so since it says nothing about lease, I assumed its not leasehold. It also says "Full Title Guarantee". I was completely relying on my solicitors to check everything properly, and deal with it.

    Again I re-iterate. I messed up big time, and I am very very angry at myself. But I can't let it effect me too much. I don't try and blame people unnecessarily unless I feel there is genuine reason. I normally hold myself more responsible than other people.

    @Rain Shadiow the scanned paperwork that I have from the Land Registry says nothing about a lease. I am going to go to our storage in our old house and get all the letter and documents we have tomorrow and see what we can find. It is really shocking.

    @hazyjo Its not a new build. However, the company Places for People and their management company RMG are real horrible outfit.

    @eddddy thank you. However, are you 100% sure?

    @davidmcn They are "Places for People" and their management company RMG (Residential Management Group), so far my experience with them has been very bad. Staff have been rude and not the response I would have expected.

    Your advice makes sense. I will check all the hard copy of any paperwork I have tomorrow and go from there. I just wanted to sanity check things with others on the forum, and also see if I had any legs to stand on.

    @gembert83 I plan to do that.

    @Guest101 The lease is less than 100 years. I would remember something like that. Plus the service charge is 60 a month. This is a SEMI DETACHED HOUSE with no communal area AT ALL.

    Worse still, I advised them that since I believe its Freehold, I need them to explain the service charge, and I am holding off paying the service charge until we can get this matter resolved. I said if I was wrong I would happily pay. Plus I kept them updated and I was in communication with them throughout. Within a very short amount of time I had letters with fines, and threatening to take me to court. Even thought I had asked them to pause it until we get to the bottom of it. The descent thing would have been to warn me. It took them several weeks or a month to respond to one of my emails.

    I find once people get behind big businesses, they lose all common sense and humanity.

    My sister owns the house a few doors down. Almost exactly the same house. Hers is Freehold. Nothing about this makes sense to me.
    • AnnieO1234
    • By AnnieO1234 10th Mar 17, 4:06 PM
    • 1,688 Posts
    • 2,519 Thanks
    AnnieO1234
    Have you searched on Land Registry for the title documents? You can obtain a copy for 3 (will be 6 if you do have a freehold and leasehold title).

    That said, homes may be freehold but still be burdened by service charges on modern estates.
    • Rosieandjim
    • By Rosieandjim 10th Mar 17, 5:02 PM
    • 39 Posts
    • 47 Thanks
    Rosieandjim
    How did these people contact you? It smells of a scam to me. If your sisters is freehold why isn't yours. You need to calm down and gather as much evidence as possible. Who did you buy the house off and who was the estate agent
    • Richard Webster
    • By Richard Webster 10th Mar 17, 5:57 PM
    • 7,382 Posts
    • 7,092 Thanks
    Richard Webster
    You should have had a copy of the Land Registry title that you were buying sent to you by your solicitors when they sent you the contract to sign, or before that. If the property was leasehold they should have sent you a copy of the lease. Never mind about the emails did you not keep hard copies of any documents they sent you?
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.
    • Hoploz
    • By Hoploz 10th Mar 17, 7:45 PM
    • 3,531 Posts
    • 3,112 Thanks
    Hoploz
    Just get out all the old paperwork from storage and have a read. It might all become clear from that.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Mar 17, 9:44 PM
    • 39,248 Posts
    • 44,592 Thanks
    G_M
    You mentioned a TP1.

    So you were not buying a complete existing Title? There was a Title which was to be split and you were buying part of it only?

    If this were a New Build, I could understand (developer owns a big field, all registered in a single Title, then divides up the field and build houses on it, and sells part of the field with a house on it to each buyer).

    But you say it is not a New Build........
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Mar 17, 9:50 PM
    • 5,144 Posts
    • 4,794 Thanks
    davidmcn
    If none of the Land Registry paperwork you have says you have a leasehold title, why are you convinced that you have a leasehold title?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Mar 17, 9:57 PM
    • 39,248 Posts
    • 44,592 Thanks
    G_M
    If none of the Land Registry paperwork you have says you have a leasehold title, why are you convinced that you have a leasehold title?
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    and have you yet purchased the Land Regisry Title?
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