Speeding ticket with tampered vehicle sheet!

molerat · 10 March 2017 at 9:44AM

I am sure perverting the course of justice covers this, a VERY serious crime. The problem is that the other "corrected" sheet will have disappeared and a new one replaced it, unless they are machine time stamped or hard serial numbered there will be no proof.

RADDERS · 10 March 2017 at 9:44AM

I would ask for the photographic evidence of the offence. A friend got a speeding ticket and tried to play the "but we don't know who was driving card" but when the photo came through you could definitely make out that they were driving lol

Shaka_Zulu · 10 March 2017 at 9:46AM

OP I presume you know the reg. of the vehicle you signed out for that day? If so stand your ground and start logging everything (assuming you are genuine and from what you say it sounds as if you are) this is going to run all the way to court for speeding and perhaps other courts for other offences. You need to be on the ball here this is going to get nasty unless you nip it in the bud now otherwise people won't be able to back down.

AdrianC · 10 March 2017 at 11:06AM

A company's signing-out sheet for their vans is NOT a "legal document". The company have a legal obligation to take reasonable steps to record who was driving - but that's not in any prescribed format. The sheet is merely part of their internal procedures.

So you signed for van A, which has been changed on the form to van B.
Did anybody else sign for van A?
Did anybody else sign for van B, changed to van A? If so, were they in that area, too?

What do you think your employer have to gain by framing you for something you didn't do...?

The 14 day limit is quite likely to be irrelevant - that's the timescale for the first notification to reach the registered keeper. This may well be a lease company, not your employer. By the time it reaches your depot, it may have been to the lease company, the head office, and possibly a regional office, and back to the issuer each time.

Your management need to decide on the balance of probability who to name to that issuer as who they believe was driving. You will then receive paperwork in your own name. When you do, you need to either accept that you were driving, or say you were not and name who you believe was. If you say "I don't know", then you had better have a better reason than "I signed for a different van, but the supervisor changed the paperwork to show I was driving this one, and I can't prove it either way". That's a shortcut to a court date for failure to name.

Mercdriver · 10 March 2017 at 11:25AM

RADDERS wrote: »

I would ask for the photographic evidence of the offence. A friend got a speeding ticket and tried to play the "but we don't know who was driving card" but when the photo came through you could definitely make out that they were driving lol

Nobbie1967 wrote: »

When you receive the notice of intended prosecution, ask if there is any photographic evidence as you have reason to doubt that you were driving. If it gets to court, you could enter the check sheet into evidence. I assume you signed this sheet when you took this van out and the reg was changed subsequent to this?

Interesting case, I'd be interested in how this turns out, so please keep us updated.

Don't use the word 'evidence' and certainly don't tell them you have reason to doubt. Simply ask for photos 'to assist in identifying the driver'. They are almost certain to provide the photos. Don't do anything that pushes towards a S172 offence. Asking for evidence will make many SCP shut the door on your request as you're not entitled to any until you plead not guilty in court.

AndyMc..... · 10 March 2017 at 11:47AM

Mercdriver wrote: »

Don't use the word 'evidence' and certainly don't tell them you have reason to doubt. Simply ask for photos 'to assist in identifying the driver'. They are almost certain to provide the photos. Don't do anything that pushes towards a S172 offence. Asking for evidence will make many SCP shut the door on your request as you're not entitled to any until you plead not guilty in court.

To be fair to Nobbie he did say photographic evidence. Often the NIP or accompanying letter will state if there is photographic evidence.

AdrianC · 10 March 2017 at 11:52AM

AndyMc..... wrote: »

To be fair to Nobbie he did say photographic evidence. Often the NIP or accompanying letter will state if there is photographic evidence.

Mercdriver's point stands, though.

Once the driver is identified, they have a choice - they can accept they did it and accept a course or FP, or they can opt for a court date. Evidence is not available unless you opt for a court date.

But if the photos are needed to help identify the driver, then the issuers MAY make them available.

bigman27 · 10 March 2017 at 12:10PM

Does your place of work have CCTV? Where I work the gatehouse has CCTV and we can see both driver and registration leaving the yard.

dippa · 10 March 2017 at 1:35PM

Thanks for the advice

Once my NIP comes through the door, how do I go about sending off for photographic evidence? I don't want to put myself in the position of getting a S172.

In regards to work, I am unsure if anyone has signed for the other van, I shall find out in my investigation later.

AdrianC · 10 March 2017 at 1:57PM

dippa wrote: »

Once my NIP comes through the door, how do I go about sending off for photographic evidence?

Simply write a letter saying that you are unsure whether you were the driver or not, as it is a work vehicle that is used by many drivers, and there is confusion about whether it was allocated to you on the day or not (don't go into more detail) - and it is possible that seeing the photographs will help with clarification.

You may well get an answer that the photos do not show the driver clearly. In that case, you're going to need to decide whether to put your hand up for it, or take it to court.

Speeding ticket with tampered vehicle sheet!

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