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    • 5557223
    • By 5557223 9th Mar 17, 5:15 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 5Thanks
    5557223
    Car Theft & Insurance
    • #1
    • 9th Mar 17, 5:15 PM
    Car Theft & Insurance 9th Mar 17 at 5:15 PM
    Apologies in advance for the bore!

    I bought a car last year and was stolen the same day. The Police think it was the person who sold it to me given that I put my address on the V5 under new keeper and that I could have been a victim of a scam. They suggest I could have been sold a clone and that they feel there is not much they can do to help me.

    Before I bought the car, (2010 VW Tiguan), I did a HPI text check, MOT history check, address on the V5 matched where I met the seller and the V5 details also matched the VIN & the engine. If it were a clone, then the scammers did a pretty good job. The seller provided me with only one key and said they had lost the other one but provided the green slip for me and the complete service history and MOT, which were duly submitted to the insurance company.

    My insurance company have used the police findings to deny my claim saying they think I am a victim of deception and that fraud and deception are not covered by car insurance. They are saying I had no insurable interest in the car.

    As it has never happened to me before, can someone please help me out and explain what should I do?
Page 1
    • FutureGirl
    • By FutureGirl 9th Mar 17, 5:49 PM
    • 845 Posts
    • 339 Thanks
    FutureGirl
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 17, 5:49 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Mar 17, 5:49 PM
    Did the police not recover the vehicle?

    If the police report states they think it's more than likely you were a victim of deception / a scam then there isn't really much you can do, unless you can prove to the insurers that the theft should be covered under the policy.
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    • facade
    • By facade 9th Mar 17, 6:05 PM
    • 2,663 Posts
    • 1,368 Thanks
    facade
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 17, 6:05 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Mar 17, 6:05 PM
    If neither you nor the Police have the car, how do they know it was a clone?

    Are they suggesting that someone waited for the owner of the original to go on holiday, say, applied for a duplicate V5 and intercepted the post then produced a car that matched all the numbers and sold it you complete with V5 from outside this house?

    Sounds more like someone sold you a car with only 1 key and a cheap GPS tracker fitted, kept the other key and then simply picked it up from where you left it using the spare key. (or just the address you put on the V5)

    I daresay the person who's house you went to used to own it, and "sold" it to someone who gave a false name, or one he can't remember the day before?

    (I do have a nasty suspicious mind though)

    Your insurance won't cover fraud. If you buy a car privately that gets repossessed, they wont refund you, this seems a bit odd though in that you had a vehicle, and it was stolen, but they say as you didn't actually have title, you don't have anything to insure.

    Not sure who to complain about.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

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    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 9th Mar 17, 7:40 PM
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    forgotmyname
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 17, 7:40 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Mar 17, 7:40 PM
    Dont buy a modern car without a full set of keys. Often you can use an OBD tool to see how many keys are coded to it.

    The address matched where you met the seller? Did you actually goto their home and see them go inside?

    Did the new V5C arrive?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

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    • 5557223
    • By 5557223 10th Mar 17, 8:54 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    5557223
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 8:54 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 8:54 AM
    Thanks guys, needless to say lessons learnt.

    My point is I feel that the police and the insurance company have let me down. They feel there is not much they can do to help and I find this is the kind of loophole fraudsters are exploiting because they know noone will do anything about it.

    I'm thinking of writing to my MP but is there anything I should do?
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 10th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
    • 1,563 Posts
    • 859 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:01 AM
    If you can prove you where diligent then you purchased the car then the insurance company need to prove you have lost the money due to deception/fraud.


    If you have original advert, HPI report and updated it with the correct numbers, receipt for the money, bank statement showing you withdrawn the cash, the green slip and all paper work for the car then surely its reasonable to assume that the car was stolen.


    If you only had 1 key when sold, that doesn't prove that the seller had the other key and was going to steal the vehicle back later on does it. Take it to the ombudsmen after you have followed your insurers complaints procedure - have you spoken to their loss adjuster yet?
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 10th Mar 17, 11:07 AM
    • 2,627 Posts
    • 2,083 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:07 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:07 AM
    On the face of it you're the victim of theft, not deception. You paid money for a car and took ownership (the ownership passes to you at the moment you hand over the money and take possession of the car - not at the moment the DVLA register you as the keeper), then someone stole it from you (possibly with a key they'd kept, but that's still theft).

    The only way that might not be theft would be if you never had ownership of the car in the first place, ie if the car you were sold was stolen, and was never the seller's to sell in the first place. Do the police actually know this was the case, or is it speculation on their part? And even if it did fall into this class of deception I'd suggest that it is unfair for the insurer to refuse the claim given that you had every reason to believe that the car was yours.

    If you don't think the insurer has treated you fairly you can make a formal complaint to them - the procedure should be outlined in the policy documents. If you're still not happy with their response, or if they don't respond within 8 weeks, then you can escalate your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. This page might be helpful - http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-insurance-theft-case-studies.html
    • 5557223
    • By 5557223 13th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    5557223
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 17, 12:26 PM
    Thank you for your very helpful responses. I checked the car very thoroughly including the following:

    1. V5 address was where I saw the car
    2. HPI check confirmed last owner change in 2011, no outstanding finance, no mileage anomaly, not imported, exported, etc.
    3. VIN / engine number matched V5 & HPI
    4. Car TAX website accepted the V5 reference for tax purpose, which I did on the day
    5. I verified/confirmed service history with VW garage by calling their service dept
    6. I checked seller's ID as he had esure insurance doc with his name / address (same as point 1.)
    7. I was provided a receipt and other docs including new keeper suplement (which were all submitted to the insurance company following the theft)

    I paid cash, which I withdrew from my partner's account (she was with me on the day) as the seller said he was overdrawn and wanted to pay off a few loans. I did not think of it much as I happily accept cash for cars I have sold in the past and prefer it myself (maybe not in future).

    If it were a clone, then the seller did a very impressive job with the clone and they had all angles covered.

    I am not sure how much more due diligence I could have carried out but have made it a point not to buy from private individuals again. Shame as only a few leave a bad mark for the rest.

    Still engaged with the insurance company but I am going to chase it up with the Financial Ombudsman if nothing comes out of it.
    • foxy-stoat
    • By foxy-stoat 13th Mar 17, 2:35 PM
    • 1,563 Posts
    • 859 Thanks
    foxy-stoat
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:35 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 17, 2:35 PM
    Thank you for your very helpful responses. I checked the car very thoroughly including the following:

    1. V5 address was where I saw the car
    2. HPI check confirmed last owner change in 2011, no outstanding finance, no mileage anomaly, not imported, exported, etc.
    3. VIN / engine number matched V5 & HPI
    4. Car TAX website accepted the V5 reference for tax purpose, which I did on the day
    5. I verified/confirmed service history with VW garage by calling their service dept
    6. I checked seller's ID as he had esure insurance doc with his name / address (same as point 1.)
    7. I was provided a receipt and other docs including new keeper suplement (which were all submitted to the insurance company following the theft)

    I paid cash, which I withdrew from my partner's account (she was with me on the day) as the seller said he was overdrawn and wanted to pay off a few loans. I did not think of it much as I happily accept cash for cars I have sold in the past and prefer it myself (maybe not in future).

    If it were a clone, then the seller did a very impressive job with the clone and they had all angles covered.

    I am not sure how much more due diligence I could have carried out but have made it a point not to buy from private individuals again. Shame as only a few leave a bad mark for the rest.

    Still engaged with the insurance company but I am going to chase it up with the Financial Ombudsman if nothing comes out of it.
    Originally posted by 5557223

    Looks like you did your homework before handing over cash and an ACTUAL sale too place. I wouldn't let this put you off a private sale in the future though.


    So you were either very unlucky that the vehicle disappeared after you bought it or the seller had the other key and took it back. The insurance company need to reasonably PROVE deception for them to refuse the claim. Read up on your policy about complaining. I would not think that the insurers can take the limited findings of the Police to refuse a claim. If the Police think you have been scammed, have they paid the "seller" a visit yet?
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