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  • FIRST POST
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 6th Mar 17, 2:52 PM
    • 225Posts
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    zoothornrollo
    Can I use plaster 'mist' as bare wood undercoat? First ever decorating attempt...
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 17, 2:52 PM
    Can I use plaster 'mist' as bare wood undercoat? First ever decorating attempt... 6th Mar 17 at 2:52 PM
    So our new loft space is nearly ready to decorate. We are going to paint. F&B Estate Emulsion for walls and ceiling (it's a small space), Estate Eggshell for the skirting board / architraves / doors.
    To do the mist coat(s) for the plaster I'll just get some cheap white emulsion. Will this do as an undercoat for the wooden areas, assuming I have primed them first - ie., can I just slap it on all over, without masking the wood?
    Also re. the new, bare wood, do I need to sand first? And in between coats?
    Any other decorating tips for total beginners would be appreciated.
    Last edited by zoothornrollo; 06-03-2017 at 2:55 PM.
Page 1
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 6th Mar 17, 4:17 PM
    • 731 Posts
    • 557 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 17, 4:17 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Mar 17, 4:17 PM
    You'd be better off using undercoat or primer undercoat for the woodwork.
    • Horseygirl123
    • By Horseygirl123 6th Mar 17, 6:14 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 404 Thanks
    Horseygirl123
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 17, 6:14 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Mar 17, 6:14 PM
    So our new loft space is nearly ready to decorate. We are going to paint. F&B Estate Emulsion for walls and ceiling (it's a small space), Estate Eggshell for the skirting board / architraves / doors.
    To do the mist coat(s) for the plaster I'll just get some cheap white emulsion. Will this do as an undercoat for the wooden areas, assuming I have primed them first - ie., can I just slap it on all over, without masking the wood?
    Also re. the new, bare wood, do I need to sand first? And in between coats?
    Any other decorating tips for total beginners would be appreciated.
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    As a Farrow and Ball fan, this is my experience. I would buy Dulux Trade Matt White and dilute for a mist coat. Then I'd give another coat of Dulux before even thinking about using the f&b emulsion. When I first used f&b I ended up putting several costs of emulsion on as the colour was showing through. Cost me a fortune. Cheap white emulsion isn't worth it imo.

    Caulk and sand any rough new wood. You will need to use f&b primer (make sure you get the right colour one). One or two coats of primer followed by two coats of eggshell. That's the downside of f&b paint. So many blooming coats of paint.

    I emulsion walls taking paint just over the woodwork, then I paint the woodwork. I don't usually sand between coats as at that point I'm so cheesed off with it all. You should really sand with fine grade sandpaper before the final coat.

    I use top quality brushes and rollers and this makes a huge difference.
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 6th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    • 2,585 Posts
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    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Mar 17, 6:45 PM
    Use the right thing for the job - whatever finish paint you're using, trade emulsion is for walls, not priming and undercoating woodwork. I can recommend Leyland acrylic primer/undercoat - two coats of that, light sanding between coats and two coats of your chosen top-coat. As for whether or not you should use F&B primer with their paints, I suspect its unnecessary, but YMMV. I've not used F&B but Little Greene Intelligent Eggshell went over the Leyland acrylic primer/undercoat just fine.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 6th Mar 17, 7:43 PM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 17, 7:43 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Mar 17, 7:43 PM
    As a Farrow and Ball fan, this is my experience. I would buy Dulux Trade Matt White and dilute for a mist coat. Then I'd give another coat of Dulux before even thinking about using the f&b emulsion. When I first used f&b I ended up putting several costs of emulsion on as the colour was showing through. Cost me a fortune. Cheap white emulsion isn't worth it imo.

    Caulk and sand any rough new wood. You will need to use f&b primer (make sure you get the right colour one). One or two coats of primer followed by two coats of eggshell. That's the downside of f&b paint. So many blooming coats of paint.

    I emulsion walls taking paint just over the woodwork, then I paint the woodwork. I don't usually sand between coats as at that point I'm so cheesed off with it all. You should really sand with fine grade sandpaper before the final coat.

    I use top quality brushes and rollers and this makes a huge difference.
    Originally posted by Horseygirl123
    Thanks a lot, V useful.
    Any views on the difference between f&b's estate and modern emulsions - we are considering using the latter for greater durability / practicality?
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 6th Mar 17, 7:46 PM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 17, 7:46 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Mar 17, 7:46 PM
    PS. When you say two coats of the dulux do you mean two coats of mist or one mist and one undiluted?
    • TheCyclingProgrammer
    • By TheCyclingProgrammer 6th Mar 17, 8:48 PM
    • 2,585 Posts
    • 1,444 Thanks
    TheCyclingProgrammer
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 17, 8:48 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Mar 17, 8:48 PM
    As I said before I've not used F&B but their estate and modern emulsions are equivalent to Little Greene's normal and intelligent emulsion. We have the intelligent emulsion in our hall stairs and landing and I'm glad we do - most marks wipe off really easily and it's still really low sheen and flat looking. It's not scrubbable though - if you have to scrub to remove a mark it will leave a noticeable change in sheen as it damages the paint surface. I imagine it will be the same with F&B.
    • Horseygirl123
    • By Horseygirl123 6th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 404 Thanks
    Horseygirl123
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    Thanks a lot, V useful.
    Any views on the difference between f&b's estate and modern emulsions - we are considering using the latter for greater durability / practicality?
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    I used the modern emulsion in our hall and kitchen. I used the estate emulsion in the bathroom and bedrooms. I do prefer the very slightly more Matt finish of the estate emulsion but there's not that much in it. Practically the modern emulsion cleans very well. I have gently dabbed marks off the estate emulsion with no removal of colour but I wouldn't like to do much more than that. I always save some paint in jam jars to touch up stubborn marks. If I had young children then definitely moden emulsion.

    For new plaster I used a mist coat, one full coat of undiluted dulux trade, then a couple of f&b top coats.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 7th Mar 17, 10:58 AM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 17, 10:58 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Mar 17, 10:58 AM
    As I said before I've not used F&B but their estate and modern emulsions are equivalent to Little Greene's normal and intelligent emulsion. We have the intelligent emulsion in our hall stairs and landing and I'm glad we do - most marks wipe off really easily and it's still really low sheen and flat looking. It's not scrubbable though - if you have to scrub to remove a mark it will leave a noticeable change in sheen as it damages the paint surface. I imagine it will be the same with F&B.
    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer
    Thanks TCP
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 7th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    I used the modern emulsion in our hall and kitchen. I used the estate emulsion in the bathroom and bedrooms. I do prefer the very slightly more Matt finish of the estate emulsion but there's not that much in it. Practically the modern emulsion cleans very well. I have gently dabbed marks off the estate emulsion with no removal of colour but I wouldn't like to do much more than that. I always save some paint in jam jars to touch up stubborn marks. If I had young children then definitely moden emulsion.

    For new plaster I used a mist coat, one full coat of undiluted dulux trade, then a couple of f&b top coats.
    Originally posted by Horseygirl123
    OK great - and finally re. a 'cheap white emulsion' - are you saying don't go cheaper than Dulux, even for the mist / undercoat? i.e., don't go for some own-brand bargain basement stuff? I wouldn't have thought it made much difference for undercoats?
    Thanks again
    • Horseygirl123
    • By Horseygirl123 7th Mar 17, 11:42 AM
    • 299 Posts
    • 404 Thanks
    Horseygirl123
    OK great - and finally re. a 'cheap white emulsion' - are you saying don't go cheaper than Dulux, even for the mist / undercoat? i.e., don't go for some own-brand bargain basement stuff? I wouldn't have thought it made much difference for undercoats?
    Thanks again
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    My husband bought some Crown emulsion from Homebase. Coverage was awful. I was using a pale colour over previous deep yellow. It took two coats of crown emulsion and even then it was patchy. I've just done the hall and just one coat of dulux Trade Matt White completely covered the previous colour. So imo it's not worth the time and effort using cheap emulsion. We have a Dulux decorator centre 5 minutes away so always go there. The man who works there says there is a difference in quality between the Dulux sold in b&q, homebase etc, and Dulux Trade only sold at the Decorator centre.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    • 731 Posts
    • 557 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    OK great - and finally re. a 'cheap white emulsion' - are you saying don't go cheaper than Dulux, even for the mist / undercoat? i.e., don't go for some own-brand bargain basement stuff? I wouldn't have thought it made much difference for undercoats?
    Thanks again
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    Use cheap emulsion for the mist coat and it will be running down your arms.

    Leyland trade will be fine, it's about £15 for 10 litres at screwfix or toolstation.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 7th Mar 17, 12:24 PM
    • 225 Posts
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    zoothornrollo
    thanks both - good stuff!
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 14th Mar 17, 12:23 PM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    sorry another question: I believe the standard order is ceilings, walls, doors, architraves, skirting boards?
    Do I need to mask off the woodwork to prevent getting emulsion on it?
    Or can I stray onto the wood and tape off the wall when I'm painting the wood? Is it ok to put painter's tape on a matt wall that has only just dried?

    At one point I had imagined maybe doing the woodwork coats while wall coats are drying - is this advisable? But you certainly wouldn't be able to tape off the walls then?

    thanks for you patience...
    Last edited by zoothornrollo; 14-03-2017 at 12:33 PM.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 14th Mar 17, 1:03 PM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    Caulk and sand any rough new wood. You will need to use f&b primer (make sure you get the right colour one). One or two coats of primer followed by two coats of eggshell. That's the downside of f&b paint. So many blooming coats of paint.

    I emulsion walls taking paint just over the woodwork, then I paint the woodwork. I don't usually sand between coats as at that point I'm so cheesed off with it all. You should really sand with fine grade sandpaper before the final coat.
    Originally posted by Horseygirl123
    ah just realised this answers some of my questions, should read answers more carefully, thanks
    Last edited by zoothornrollo; 14-03-2017 at 1:09 PM.
    • Horseygirl123
    • By Horseygirl123 14th Mar 17, 6:59 PM
    • 299 Posts
    • 404 Thanks
    Horseygirl123
    sorry another question: I believe the standard order is ceilings, walls, doors, architraves, skirting boards?
    Do I need to mask off the woodwork to prevent getting emulsion on it?
    Or can I stray onto the wood and tape off the wall when I'm painting the wood? Is it ok to put painter's tape on a matt wall that has only just dried?

    At one point I had imagined maybe doing the woodwork coats while wall coats are drying - is this advisable? But you certainly wouldn't be able to tape off the walls then?

    thanks for you patience...
    Originally posted by zoothornrollo
    I've only used masking tape once and spent ages putting it on to find that when I took it off, paint had bled underneath and/or it took paint off with it. Practice has given me a steady hand and having excellent brushes will help no end. I wouldn't do the woodwork if the walls aren't dry as you wouldn't be able to wipe any little mistakes off.
    • zoothornrollo
    • By zoothornrollo 15th Mar 17, 8:57 AM
    • 225 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    zoothornrollo
    Thank you. I have just invested in some expensive Purdey brushes and a fancy Wooster roller... All the gear and no idea!
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