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  • FIRST POST
    • emmalambshank
    • By emmalambshank 6th Mar 17, 11:08 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 2Thanks
    emmalambshank
    Ebay advice please - suspect buyer lying
    • #1
    • 6th Mar 17, 11:08 AM
    Ebay advice please - suspect buyer lying 6th Mar 17 at 11:08 AM
    So I sell my unwanted clothes on ebay like a lot of people - never had an issue.

    I posted one item a couple of days late (my first mistake) but upgraded the postage to first class to compensate and apologised to the buyer who seemed to accept it. My second mistake was not tracking it.

    A couple of days later he sent a rude message about it not being with him yet.

    He's since been ruder (although nothing I can report) which is stressing me out, and has also opened a case wanting a refund. Because of his manner, I feel like even if he has received it by now, he's going to carry on with the refund just to stick a finger up at me.

    I can't open a 'missing parcel' thing with Royal Mail until it's been missing for 10 days which will be 2 days after the case can be escalated to Ebay customer service, who will no doubt side with the buyer as all I have is proof of postage.

    I spent literally an hour on the phone to ebay call centre at the end of last week and didn't really even then get the answer to my query.

    So advice please on this question... If I refund him now to get the situation and stress done with, if it turns out that Royal Mail tell me if was delivered to him, am I likely to get my money back through an appeal? Or can I only appeal and revisit the issue if I wait until it's escalated and until Ebay force a refund out of me?
    What would you do? It's about £20 so not a life changing amount but still annoying.

    Sorry for the essay, many thanks for any advice in advance
Page 2
    • mrcol1000
    • By mrcol1000 6th Mar 17, 2:15 PM
    • 4,297 Posts
    • 3,707 Thanks
    mrcol1000
    I disagree with this bit. If the buyer is making fraudulent claims then Royal Mail need to know about it to do anything about it! They will soon realise somethings up if the buyer does this often, or indeed find a postman stealing mail.
    Originally posted by purple321
    Agree with this. It is not up to the OP to investigate whether it was delivered or not. If the buyer is telling them it has not turned up, then the buyer needs to act accordingly. The OP has no proof it was delivered and the buyer is lying. It could be a honest case of mail getting lost. If it isn't then it is up to Royal Mail to investigate.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 6th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    • 15,008 Posts
    • 20,416 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    Have you checked this buyer's feedback? Has anyone left him any FB indicating that an item did not turn up?

    You could always leave him positive FB saying "buyer paid quickly. Sorry it got lost in the post!".

    That way, should he be a scammer, others would then have evidence of this happening before.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • thewrongtrousers
    • By thewrongtrousers 9th Mar 17, 6:15 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    thewrongtrousers
    I received a parcel last week that had been posted at a post office by standard mail. The postman scanned the code before handing it to me. I never post from a post office but perhaps someone else will know if the scanning of standard mail is in place at the moment (I know it's in place for business mail)? I threw the packaging away but had meant to look at it again.
    Originally posted by F&L
    Yes it's been around since last summer. The 'delivery confirmation' service is currently for Royal Mail 24 and 48 services (standard parcels for businesses). But this is only for business customers and doesn't include a signature, it is just a barcode and confirms the item has been delivered.
    Last edited by thewrongtrousers; 09-03-2017 at 6:17 PM.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 9th Mar 17, 7:17 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    Yes it's been around since last summer. The 'delivery confirmation' service is currently for Royal Mail 24 and 48 services (standard parcels for businesses). But this is only for business customers and doesn't include a signature, it is just a barcode and confirms the item has been delivered.
    Originally posted by thewrongtrousers
    It is available for those that register with Click and Drop too. Anyone can do that.

    A signature isn't needed necessarily unless the item is over £750, in which case these services wouldn't be the right ones.
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 9th Mar 17, 7:20 PM
    • 3,024 Posts
    • 1,760 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    It is available for those that register with Click and Drop too. Anyone can do that.
    Is it available yet on the postage label purchased through eBay?
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 9th Mar 17, 7:26 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
    • 7,108 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Is it available yet on the postage label purchased through eBay?
    Originally posted by ballisticbrian
    I don't use Ebay postage as we are purely DMO so I don't know.
    • thewrongtrousers
    • By thewrongtrousers 10th Mar 17, 12:59 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    thewrongtrousers
    It is available for those that register with Click and Drop too. Anyone can do that.

    A signature isn't needed necessarily unless the item is over £750, in which case these services wouldn't be the right ones.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup

    Ah right, thanks, they must have added that later - when the rep called us they said it was business only - maybe he was just bigging it up.
    • in_the_Cotswolds
    • By in_the_Cotswolds 10th Mar 17, 10:14 PM
    • 721 Posts
    • 344 Thanks
    in_the_Cotswolds
    If your parcel had a 2D barcode on it then it should have been scanned at the point of delivery. This applies to all parcels whether it was sent tracked, recorded etc.

    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 11th Mar 17, 8:27 AM
    • 3,024 Posts
    • 1,760 Thanks
    ballisticbrian
    If your parcel had a 2D barcode on it then it should have been scanned at the point of delivery. This applies to all parcels whether it was sent tracked, recorded etc.
    You say that but member CUSTARDY says it's not planned yet for 2D barcoded franking machines.
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 11th Mar 17, 9:14 AM
    • 58,868 Posts
    • 41,696 Thanks
    soolin
    If your parcel had a 2D barcode on it then it should have been scanned at the point of delivery. This applies to all parcels whether it was sent tracked, recorded etc.
    Originally posted by in_the_Cotswolds
    That is not the case, I queried this again yesterday as I do not have it on my business account, this is the official response from my RM business manager:

    In terms of delivery confirmation this need to be activated assuming you are producing Barcoded labels via DMO



    If you contact the DMO support team they will be able to advise how to go about this



    If you are using PPi Labels then this service is not available
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move posts there. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • Nesty
    • By Nesty 11th Mar 17, 2:30 PM
    • 342 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    Nesty
    One time years ago. I sold a PC RAM stick . The buyer was localish, so I posted it through the letterbox en route to work.

    Low and behold a few days later. I get the I have not received my item.

    Lucky, I did take a photo of the item outside the house with a current day newspaper in the shot. Then sealed the envelope and posted through letterbox.

    That was my only back up.

    It went to EBAY and I upoaded google earth snaps along with my photos to fully demonstrate I was there.
    EBAY sided with me as the seller which I wasn't expecting.

    After that I never personal deliver now. Just pay the postage regardless and get proper recorded delivery. If you don't you are handing any transaction on a plate to a buyer and placing huge faith they will do the honourable in saying they receieved the item!
    Last edited by Nesty; 11-03-2017 at 2:32 PM.
    • john2054
    • By john2054 2nd Apr 17, 9:46 PM
    • 163 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    john2054
    As someone else said, you have lost out here im afraid. The best you can do now, is to cooperate, and write this one off. Learning the lesson for next time!
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 2nd Apr 17, 10:19 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
    • 7,108 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    schools are out everyone
    • in_the_Cotswolds
    • By in_the_Cotswolds 8th Apr 17, 11:13 PM
    • 721 Posts
    • 344 Thanks
    in_the_Cotswolds
    That is not the case, I queried this again yesterday as I do not have it on my business account, this is the official response from my RM business manager:

    In terms of delivery confirmation this need to be activated assuming you are producing Barcoded labels via DMO



    If you contact the DMO support team they will be able to advise how to go about this



    If you are using PPi Labels then this service is not available
    Originally posted by soolin
    If anyone posts a parcel and it has a 2D barcode on it it should be scanned at point of delivery. This was introduced last year.

    I'm not sure about business accounts but First and Second class Horizon will produce a 2D barcode.

    • barmonkey
    • By barmonkey 9th Apr 17, 12:26 AM
    • 6,596 Posts
    • 15,621 Thanks
    barmonkey
    If anyone posts a parcel and it has a 2D barcode on it it should be scanned at point of delivery. This was introduced last year.
    Originally posted by in_the_Cotswolds
    All parcels now have delivery confirmation for free, this became active about 3 weeks ago.
    WWSD

    (what would Scooby Doo)
    • ontheup1972
    • By ontheup1972 10th Apr 17, 5:25 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    ontheup1972
    How?

    If you do believe it's been delivered then you shouldn't be claiming from RM that it is lost.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Belief has nothing to do with how you proceed, only the facts matter.

    If the seller cannot prove delivery (and even if they suspect the buyer is lying), they have no choice but to "believe" the buyer and refund.

    If the seller refunds the buyer for loss, and is able to claim compensation from Royal Mail, then they obviously should - no two ways about it.

    Royal Mail actually want sellers to file claims - as bizarre as that sounds, considering how difficult I've heard people say the claims process can be. Claims made by sellers for lost mail is the way that Royal Mail get serial thieves on their radar.

    I have twice in the last month found a way of e-mailing Royal Mail to highlight multiple INR claiming buyers, and on both occasions have received responses along the lines of "thank you for your information, please make a claim etc" and when I've replied to say "I am a business seller and can't make a claim, I'm reporting this address not to claim but to hopefully get you to investigate this person", I have been told "please make a claim anyway, because that is how we identify problem addresses."
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Apr 17, 6:51 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
    • 7,108 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Belief has nothing to do with how you proceed, only the facts matter.

    ....and even if they suspect the buyer is lying), they have no choice but to "believe" the buyer and refund.
    Originally posted by ontheup1972
    Unless a seller has proof of delivery a seller must refund on ebay/paypal. Don't get confused between what you need to do on ebay/paypal but what you actually do apropos Royal Mail (or whatever carrier you use).

    You should not be claiming from a carrier if you suspect the buyer has had the delivery. The OP thinks the parcel has been delivered. Claiming when you think (and we don't know how/why she thinks this) the item has been delivered is wrong.
    • ontheup1972
    • By ontheup1972 10th Apr 17, 7:14 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    ontheup1972
    No it isn't wrong. At all.

    The OP *thinks* the buyer has received the delivery but doesn't *know* it in the absence of proof of delivery.

    What the seller *thinks* is utterly irrelevant as to how to proceed. What the seller *knows* is relevant and their action must be based on that.

    The seller *knows* that the buyer is claiming INR, and that's the top and bottom of it.

    Procedure from that premise - buyer claims INR, seller can't prove otherwise and refunds, seller tries to recoup their losses from Royal Mail.

    If the buyer is really lying, they're in the wrong - not the seller for *thinking* they're lying.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 10th Apr 17, 7:50 PM
    • 10,590 Posts
    • 7,108 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    No it isn't wrong. At all.

    The OP *thinks* the buyer has received the delivery but doesn't *know* it in the absence of proof of delivery.

    What the seller *thinks* is utterly irrelevant as to how to proceed. What the seller *knows* is relevant and their action must be based on that.

    The seller *knows* that the buyer is claiming INR, and that's the top and bottom of it.

    Procedure from that premise - buyer claims INR, seller can't prove otherwise and refunds, seller tries to recoup their losses from Royal Mail.

    If the buyer is really lying, they're in the wrong - not the seller for *thinking* they're lying.
    Originally posted by ontheup1972
    Clearly your moral compass is set at a different angle to mine.

    You are confusing what you need to do on eBay apropos a refund and what you should do regarding a claim.

    Your last sentence says it all.

    This buyer believes (and I say again, we don't know why she believes this) but she believes the item has been delivered. If that is the case she should not be claiming.

    She should refund as otherwise ebay/paypal will do that for her, but she should not be claiming from RM.

    I don't use asterisks in my posts as for me it's quite straightforward.
    • ontheup1972
    • By ontheup1972 10th Apr 17, 8:26 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    ontheup1972
    Clearly your moral compass is set at a different angle to mine.

    You are confusing what you need to do on eBay apropos a refund and what you should do regarding a claim.

    Your last sentence says it all.

    This buyer believes (and I say again, we don't know why she believes this) but she believes the item has been delivered. If that is the case she should not be claiming.

    She should refund as otherwise ebay/paypal will do that for her, but she should not be claiming from RM.

    I don't use asterisks in my posts as for me it's quite straightforward.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    My moral compass is pointing in the right direction thank you very much.

    I'm not sure how else to spell this out but how the seller feels about the authenticity of the claim from the buyer isn't going to come into it.

    The seller is responsible for getting the item to the buyer which is why the buyer claims from the seller - but the seller also has redress with the carrier who they have contracted to do the job of delivery.

    So in the absence of proof of delivery, the seller simply has to tell the carrier that INR has been claimed and that would normally be by way of a claim.

    Like I said, I have two recent cases where I've reported to Royal Mail buyers who I was 99.99% sure were stealing multiple times - that's reported, not claimed aginst - Royal Mail told me to claim! QED.
    Last edited by ontheup1972; 10-04-2017 at 8:29 PM.
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