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  • FIRST POST
    • deaston
    • By deaston 4th Mar 17, 9:23 PM
    • 467Posts
    • 258Thanks
    deaston
    Driveway removed, car in a hole - my fault?
    • #1
    • 4th Mar 17, 9:23 PM
    Driveway removed, car in a hole - my fault? 4th Mar 17 at 9:23 PM
    Tonight I turned my car in someone's driveway. Their gates were set back from the road about 15ft, and closed. I just turned reversed in front of their gates hoping to turn around.

    But the driveway between the pavement and their gates had been dug out, so the back of my car fell into the hole (my partner then had to come in our 4x4 to pull me out). It was dark, raining and I just didn't notice the ground was 12" lower.

    The homeowner appeared and started angrily saying he had my reg and would come after me for any damage to his half-constructed driveway.

    But, here's the question - should he not have had some warning that the driveway was missing? Cones or signs or a rope or something?
Page 7
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 12th Mar 17, 12:09 PM
    • 731 Posts
    • 558 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    No, I didn't see that drop (clearly). That is a very bright light that blinds you and also causes the gates to cast a shadow on the trench. Plus, on the night in question, it was raining quite heavily and visibility was generally poor.

    The reason I was going to tell the council is not because of damage to my car but in the hope that they would make the homeowner mark-out the works so no-one else made a similar mistake.

    There's no damage to my wife's car. And I'm lucky that I have a £70,000 Range Rover that my wife was able to drive to me to pull the Mini out. In all, it was just a minor inconvenience. But for someone else it might cause them damage they can't afford and the need to pay for a tow truck. Not to mention the fact the homeowner is a very unpleasant chap and seems to be looking for financial gain from others' misfortune.

    But what I've learnt as I get older (and from joining these forums) is it's every man for themselves. Why should I tell the council? No-one stopped to help me or ask if I was ok. And reading back over this thread it's mainly accusations and people calling me a liar. So why should I think about other people or care what happens to them?

    So sod it. I'm ok and it seems that's all that matters these days. And who knows, maybe the next person to fall into that hole will be one of the many, many people who drive inches from my bumper or overtake me, beeping angrily when I'm (gasp) doing 30mph in a 30 zone. Or one of those inconsiderate people who sit at 60mph in the middle lane of the motorway. None of them care about me, or my safety, or the safety of others. They just care about getting to their destination three minutes earlier.
    Originally posted by deaston

    All the gear but no idea.
    • warby68
    • By warby68 12th Mar 17, 12:15 PM
    • 824 Posts
    • 8,876 Thanks
    warby68
    If you couldn't see the drop, then presumably you wouldn't have seen a child, animal, tools or anything else in the space you reversed into either.

    I'd be careful handing blame out when your driving seems a little iffy.

    PS I've put a £70k Range Rover on my shopping list as its obviously an essential buy for when I fall into a hole I should've seen
    Last edited by warby68; 12-03-2017 at 12:17 PM.
    • JP1978
    • By JP1978 12th Mar 17, 12:32 PM
    • 304 Posts
    • 231 Thanks
    JP1978
    OP, you get what you deserve, I hope your car is damaged and you have loads of sleepless nights!

    You have pulled onto PRIVATE property with no due reason - you were just been too idle to find the next PUBLIC road to turn around on.

    I say this as we have a small access drive onto our (and two neighbouring properties) that is maintained by the three of us. Many a vehicle that cant be bothered driving another 30 yards to turn in the allocated area uses this private area to turn in. Are they, or amazon, Asda, Tesco etc who use that to turn in going to pay for its upkeep? No, of course not.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 12th Mar 17, 12:47 PM
    • 2,305 Posts
    • 1,484 Thanks
    Car 54
    Or one of those inconsiderate people who sit at 60mph in the middle lane of the motorway. None of them care about me, or my safety, or the safety of others. They just care about getting to their destination three minutes earlier.
    Originally posted by deaston
    They drive 10 mph below the limit to get to their destination earlier. How does that work? Are they driving a time-machine disguised as a car?
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 12th Mar 17, 2:38 PM
    • 11,618 Posts
    • 6,515 Thanks
    Strider590
    There's no damage to my wife's car. And I'm lucky that I have a £70,000 Range Rover that my wife was able to drive to me to pull the Mini out. In all, it was just a minor inconvenience.
    Originally posted by deaston
    "Lucky" is not the word I would use, pretty any car with enough weight would have done the job. I imagine you leased it just in case you get stuck in snow as well, where unfortunately you'll come to realise that the sports tyres are absolutely no use whatsoever. Ironically they usually end up with cheap/nasty Chinese tyres fitted because the owner is paying out every penny they earn on the lease/pcp and cant afford tyres, which then makes thing 10x worse.

    "Lucky" is not how you'll feel when you are stuck in snow (or mud) and nobody has a heavy enough vehicle to pull you free.
    Last edited by Strider590; 12-03-2017 at 2:42 PM.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

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    • deaston
    • By deaston 12th Mar 17, 4:02 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 258 Thanks
    deaston
    OP, you get what you deserve, I hope your car is damaged and you have loads of sleepless nights!

    You have pulled onto PRIVATE property with no due reason - you were just been too idle to find the next PUBLIC road to turn around on.

    I say this as we have a small access drive onto our (and two neighbouring properties) that is maintained by the three of us. Many a vehicle that cant be bothered driving another 30 yards to turn in the allocated area uses this private area to turn in. Are they, or amazon, Asda, Tesco etc who use that to turn in going to pay for its upkeep? No, of course not.
    Originally posted by JP1978
    You hope my car is damaged? That's very unkind. Although, as I've explained, the car is fine. And I'm not entirely sure why I'd have sleepless nights...

    You're very lucky that you have never turned around on private land, but I'm not alone in doing so, so don't feel in the least bit guilty about it. In this case, I think the homeowner's personal harassment and threats against me are more serious than turning on private land, so I'm happy I was within the law.

    I also have a private drive that people turn on, but it doesn't bother me one jot. I have no idea whether or not they know where the next turning point is, what their circumstances are etc. Life's a little too short to worry about that.

    But perhaps you and the guy with no drive should take a look at the Occupiers' Liability Act 1984. Section 1 states that you have responsibility even to people who aren't visitors: "duty is owed by a person as occupier of premises to persons other than his visitors in respect of any risk of their suffering injury on the premises by reason of any danger due to the state of the premises or to things done or omitted to be done on them".

    If he didn't want people turning on his drive, he should have placed his gates on the edge of his boundary. And he should also have signage warning people about the trench. But hey, I'm not going to worry about it anymore because I'm ok and that's what's important.
    Last edited by deaston; 12-03-2017 at 4:08 PM.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 12th Mar 17, 5:44 PM
    • 11,420 Posts
    • 8,592 Thanks
    unholyangel
    You keep referring to the Occupiers Liability Act - are you aware its a limited duty of care and only applies to personal injury or death and does not apply where property damage is concerned?

    In general in the motoring world, when a moving object collides with a stationary one, its the one moving thats at fault.

    However I'd point out that you also owed him a duty of care, except you would owe him a greater standard of care than he would owe you (with his being limited to injury & death due to your trespass).
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • debtdebt
    • By debtdebt 12th Mar 17, 5:47 PM
    • 312 Posts
    • 193 Thanks
    debtdebt
    Jesus christ OP, you've confirmed your car isn't damaged so why are you still banging on about the whole situation???

    You've learnt your lesson. Avoid that driveway and in future, don't turn into other people's property.
    • deaston
    • By deaston 12th Mar 17, 6:56 PM
    • 467 Posts
    • 258 Thanks
    deaston
    You keep referring to the Occupiers Liability Act - are you aware its a limited duty of care and only applies to personal injury or death and does not apply where property damage is concerned?

    In general in the motoring world, when a moving object collides with a stationary one, its the one moving thats at fault.

    However I'd point out that you also owed him a duty of care, except you would owe him a greater standard of care than he would owe you (with his being limited to injury & death due to your trespass).
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Does mentioning it once mean I "keep referring" to it?

    And again, I've made that mistake of being concerned about the wellbeing of others and the homeowner's duty toward others (not naughty, evil me, or my car, but anyone else who may fall into/trip over his trench).

    But fear not, I'm not going to raise it with the council or the homeowner, so the trench will be there as a hazard for everyone else - children, dog walkers, the blind, the postman... everyone.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 12th Mar 17, 10:41 PM
    • 1,058 Posts
    • 1,280 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    "the blind"....goodness me. Bit of an upgrade on the usual nuns carrying kittens.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Mar 17, 10:44 PM
    • 10,356 Posts
    • 6,649 Thanks
    bigadaj
    "the blind"....goodness me. Bit of an upgrade on the usual nuns carrying kittens.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    Presumably blind nuns carrying kittens whilst delivering mail and walking dogs and children.

    Oh and people reversing blindly too.
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 13th Mar 17, 12:02 AM
    • 2,542 Posts
    • 2,164 Thanks
    Richard53
    Log it on Fixmystreet.com. It's anonymous and in my experience the LA investigate each report - so it will be looked at, at least.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 13th Mar 17, 1:09 AM
    • 5,223 Posts
    • 4,393 Thanks
    mgdavid
    How about "It was dark, raining and I just didn't notice"?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    How about 'it was dark, raining and because of that I took extra care to check that my path was clear and safe before reversing across the pavement into someone's private drive'.

    Oh, wait.
    A salary slave no more.....
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 13th Mar 17, 1:11 AM
    • 5,223 Posts
    • 4,393 Thanks
    mgdavid
    Does mentioning it once mean I "keep referring" to it?

    And again, I've made that mistake of being concerned about the wellbeing of others and the homeowner's duty toward others (not naughty, evil me, or my car, but anyone else who may fall into/trip over his trench).

    But fear not, I'm not going to raise it with the council or the homeowner, so the trench will be there as a hazard for everyone else - children, dog walkers, the blind, the postman... everyone.
    Originally posted by deaston
    You seem to make a lot of mistakes....
    A salary slave no more.....
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 13th Mar 17, 10:50 AM
    • 1,405 Posts
    • 7,106 Thanks
    NBLondon
    Are they driving a time-machine disguised as a car?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    Wouldn't they be doing 88mph then?
    This Be the Verse - Philip Larkin. The first line that everyone knows.
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 13th Mar 17, 9:14 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 930 Thanks
    Tarambor
    You hope my car is damaged? That's very unkind. Although, as I've explained, the car is fine. And I'm not entirely sure why I'd have sleepless nights...

    You're very lucky that you have never turned around on private land, but I'm not alone in doing so, so don't feel in the least bit guilty about it. In this case, I think the homeowner's personal harassment and threats against me are more serious than turning on private land, so I'm happy I was within the law.
    Originally posted by deaston
    Someone who owns £70k Range Rover, thinks its OK to go onto someones' property without permission and is shocked they might get a bit annoyed about it sees nothing wrong with turning on someones private land shocker.

    In that case please can you post your address so next time I'm down your way in my 44 tonne truck and need to do a U turn I know whose garden I can use?
    • deaston
    • By deaston 14th Mar 17, 8:24 AM
    • 467 Posts
    • 258 Thanks
    deaston
    Someone who owns £70k Range Rover, thinks its OK to go onto someones' property without permission and is shocked they might get a bit annoyed about it sees nothing wrong with turning on someones private land shocker.

    In that case please can you post your address so next time I'm down your way in my 44 tonne truck and need to do a U turn I know whose garden I can use?
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    A lorry driver? I'm surprised you know how to type.

    Might want to u-turn on my garden as soon as you can. Self-driving vehicles will soon be putting your low-paid "career" at quite serious risk.
    • MobileSaver
    • By MobileSaver 14th Mar 17, 8:33 AM
    • 1,206 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    MobileSaver
    Tonight I turned my car in someone's driveway. ... I had been looking for somewhere to turn for half a mile or so and didn't know where the road was leading nor how long I'd have to drive to find somewhere.
    Originally posted by deaston
    I'm ok and it seems that's all that matters these days. ... None of them care about me, or my safety, or the safety of others. They just care about getting to their destination three minutes earlier.
    Originally posted by deaston
    The irony is mind-blowing!
    Respect to 3 of the greatest actors of all time; amazing people who are totally believable as the characters they play & almost single-handedly make the shows they starred in:

    Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister in Game of Thrones
    Daniel J. Travanti as Frank Furillo in Hill Street Blues
    Claire Danes as Carrie Mathison in Homeland
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 14th Mar 17, 10:32 AM
    • 11,618 Posts
    • 6,515 Thanks
    Strider590
    Where's the popcorn smilie when you need it?
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 14th Mar 17, 10:35 AM
    • 1,058 Posts
    • 1,280 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    A lorry driver? I'm surprised you know how to type.

    Might want to u-turn on my garden as soon as you can. Self-driving vehicles will soon be putting your low-paid "career" at quite serious risk.
    Originally posted by deaston
    Good grief OP. You really are an unpleasant individual. I had some sympathy for you when you described how the homeowner reacted after your accident. Indeed, you went on to say this:

    Thankfully, I'm the sort of polite person who doesn't rise to others attitudes.
    Originally posted by deaston
    That's that blown away, isn't it. You've come across as a self-entitled braggart with a superiority complex, only the people you consider yourself superior to aren't stuck in a hole through their own stupidity.

    Congratulations. After negligently ending up in one hole and having to be pulled out, you've dug yourself into another one. Quite an achievement.
    Last edited by Aylesbury Duck; 14-03-2017 at 11:17 PM.
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