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  • FIRST POST
    • deaston
    • By deaston 4th Mar 17, 9:23 PM
    • 389Posts
    • 210Thanks
    deaston
    Driveway removed, car in a hole - my fault?
    • #1
    • 4th Mar 17, 9:23 PM
    Driveway removed, car in a hole - my fault? 4th Mar 17 at 9:23 PM
    Tonight I turned my car in someone's driveway. Their gates were set back from the road about 15ft, and closed. I just turned reversed in front of their gates hoping to turn around.

    But the driveway between the pavement and their gates had been dug out, so the back of my car fell into the hole (my partner then had to come in our 4x4 to pull me out). It was dark, raining and I just didn't notice the ground was 12" lower.

    The homeowner appeared and started angrily saying he had my reg and would come after me for any damage to his half-constructed driveway.

    But, here's the question - should he not have had some warning that the driveway was missing? Cones or signs or a rope or something?
Page 6
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 7th Mar 17, 6:25 AM
    • 2,415 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    Richard53
    Not read the whole thread ...

    OP trespassed on someone's land and their car "fell" into a hole on that land ... does that sum it up?
    Originally posted by DoaM
    If you had read the whole thread, you wouldn't need to ask ...


    And, to save you the small effort involved, no.
    If all misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own and depart. (Attrib. to Socrates)
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 7th Mar 17, 10:23 AM
    • 11,073 Posts
    • 6,155 Thanks
    Strider590
    Not legally qualified opinion but here goes..

    I'm not sure the argument about trespass and 'it's his land and he can do what he likes would hold in court'. In the same way that homeowners can't set burglar traps and argue 'if he hadn't been there, he wouldn't have been hurt'.
    Originally posted by shopbot

    This is it, if you set a trap for someone and they get hurt, you would be liable even if they were trespassing.

    Let's say for example someone was walking down that road at night, got to that drive and had to stop for a car coming the other way, they step sideways, fall down the hole and break their ankle, that home owner would be in legal trouble up to his eyeballs.
    Last edited by Strider590; 07-03-2017 at 10:29 AM.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • deaston
    • By deaston 10th Mar 17, 8:36 PM
    • 389 Posts
    • 210 Thanks
    deaston
    Anyone who is interested, I passed the evil driveway again this evening and it is still in exactly the same state it was.

    And in the photo I took tonight, I think it's easy to see why I didn't realise the drive was missing. Maybe I should contact the council as this seems very irresponsible of the homeowner.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9oi2ZnYFaNiU1lVRVVweEptTWc
    • liltzero
    • By liltzero 10th Mar 17, 8:56 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    liltzero
    What!? You didn't see that drop?
    I think someone needs to go to Specsavers. Give it a rest now and stop trying to pass the blame.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 10th Mar 17, 9:03 PM
    • 614 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    It looks pretty clear in that photo to be honest. Probably not the photo you'd want to use to show how how difficult it is to see. If that's exactly what it was like on the night in question, I'd say you don't really have a case.
    • cjdavies
    • By cjdavies 10th Mar 17, 9:22 PM
    • 2,212 Posts
    • 1,959 Thanks
    cjdavies
    Anyone who is interested, I passed the evil driveway again this evening and it is still in exactly the same state it was.

    And in the photo I took tonight, I think it's easy to see why I didn't realise the drive was missing. Maybe I should contact the council as this seems very irresponsible of the homeowner.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9oi2ZnYFaNiU1lVRVVweEptTWc
    Originally posted by deaston
    Give it a go, nothing to lose.
    • iammumtoone
    • By iammumtoone 10th Mar 17, 9:30 PM
    • 4,623 Posts
    • 9,746 Thanks
    iammumtoone
    Everyone can see it because you know it is there. I can see how a driver reversing could miss it when you would not expect it to be there.

    However I no longer think it is a danger to pedestrians as that security light looks really bright and as long as it is set to come on before you get close to the drop I think it would be hard for a pedestrian to miss.

    If you want to complain to the council go ahead but I would make sure you leave enough time before doing so, so that the owner will not think it was you (you did say he had your details and wasn't a reasonable person)
    Sealed pot challenge ~ 10 #017
    Declutter 2017 items in 2017 - 78/2017

    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 10th Mar 17, 9:31 PM
    • 5,465 Posts
    • 7,150 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    Anyone who is interested, I passed the evil driveway again this evening and it is still in exactly the same state it was.

    And in the photo I took tonight, I think it's easy to see why I didn't realise the drive was missing. Maybe I should contact the council as this seems very irresponsible of the homeowner.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9oi2ZnYFaNiU1lVRVVweEptTWc
    Originally posted by deaston
    I have to say, the other pictures made it look like a fairly small drop but in that one it seems pretty obvious that its not suitable for vehicles.

    By all means report it to the council as a hazard to pedestrians, but other than that, let it go.
    • Strider590
    • By Strider590 10th Mar 17, 10:35 PM
    • 11,073 Posts
    • 6,155 Thanks
    Strider590
    Everyone can see it because you know it is there. I can see how a driver reversing could miss it when you would not expect it to be there.

    However I no longer think it is a danger to pedestrians as that security light looks really bright and as long as it is set to come on before you get close to the drop I think it would be hard for a pedestrian to miss.

    If you want to complain to the council go ahead but I would make sure you leave enough time before doing so, so that the owner will not think it was you (you did say he had your details and wasn't a reasonable person)
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    It looks to me like the light doesn't illuminate the hole/drive/gate, rather it could easily blind someone to the risk.
    Having the last word isn't the same as being right.......

    "Never confuse education with intelligence"
    • debtdebt
    • By debtdebt 11th Mar 17, 5:15 AM
    • 133 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    debtdebt
    Is there actually any damage to your car?
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 11th Mar 17, 10:11 AM
    • 614 Posts
    • 644 Thanks
    Aylesbury Duck
    Is there actually any damage to your car pride?
    Originally posted by debtdebt
    Yes. That's why the OP is seeking retribution but trying in vain to paint it as civic responsibility.
    Last edited by Aylesbury Duck; 12-03-2017 at 9:26 AM.
    • kraken776
    • By kraken776 12th Mar 17, 3:41 AM
    • 132 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    kraken776
    Yes. Thats why the OP is seeking retribution but trying in vain to paint it as civic responsibility.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck
    Are you able to prove this statement?
    • debtdebt
    • By debtdebt 12th Mar 17, 5:19 AM
    • 133 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    debtdebt
    So if there is damage, the OP has two options.

    Claim from his own insurers, pay his excess and wait for his insurers to recoup their outlay and excess from the homeowner.

    Alternatively, he could use either his legal expenses people to pursue a claim on his behalf for the damage or instruct his own solicitors to bring a claim.

    No point crying on here about it.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 12th Mar 17, 8:03 AM
    • 5,628 Posts
    • 10,493 Thanks
    GwylimT
    This is it, if you set a trap for someone and they get hurt, you would be liable even if they were trespassing.

    Let's say for example someone was walking down that road at night, got to that drive and had to stop for a car coming the other way, they step sideways, fall down the hole and break their ankle, that home owner would be in legal trouble up to his eyeballs.
    Originally posted by Strider590
    A car coming the other way down a pavement?!
    • custardy
    • By custardy 12th Mar 17, 8:16 AM
    • 32,112 Posts
    • 26,872 Thanks
    custardy
    What!? You didn't see that drop?
    I think someone needs to go to Specsavers. Give it a rest now and stop trying to pass the blame.
    Originally posted by liltzero
    I'm not so sure its that clear cut. That image is taken at head height giving a full view of the drive.
    A driver in a mini is a lot lower and looking through mirrors/over their shoulder.
    • deaston
    • By deaston 12th Mar 17, 11:16 AM
    • 389 Posts
    • 210 Thanks
    deaston
    Is there actually any damage to your car?
    Originally posted by debtdebt
    If you want to complain to the council go ahead but I would make sure you leave enough time before doing so, so that the owner will not think it was you (you did say he had your details and wasn't a reasonable person)
    Originally posted by iammumtoone
    What!? You didn't see that drop?
    I think someone needs to go to Specsavers. Give it a rest now and stop trying to pass the blame.
    Originally posted by liltzero
    No, I didn't see that drop (clearly). That is a very bright light that blinds you and also causes the gates to cast a shadow on the trench. Plus, on the night in question, it was raining quite heavily and visibility was generally poor.

    The reason I was going to tell the council is not because of damage to my car but in the hope that they would make the homeowner mark-out the works so no-one else made a similar mistake.

    There's no damage to my wife's car. And I'm lucky that I have a 70,000 Range Rover that my wife was able to drive to me to pull the Mini out. In all, it was just a minor inconvenience. But for someone else it might cause them damage they can't afford and the need to pay for a tow truck. Not to mention the fact the homeowner is a very unpleasant chap and seems to be looking for financial gain from others' misfortune.

    But what I've learnt as I get older (and from joining these forums) is it's every man for themselves. Why should I tell the council? No-one stopped to help me or ask if I was ok. And reading back over this thread it's mainly accusations and people calling me a liar. So why should I think about other people or care what happens to them?

    So sod it. I'm ok and it seems that's all that matters these days. And who knows, maybe the next person to fall into that hole will be one of the many, many people who drive inches from my bumper or overtake me, beeping angrily when I'm (gasp) doing 30mph in a 30 zone. Or one of those inconsiderate people who sit at 60mph in the middle lane of the motorway. None of them care about me, or my safety, or the safety of others. They just care about getting to their destination three minutes earlier.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 12th Mar 17, 11:30 AM
    • 9,479 Posts
    • 6,475 Thanks
    neilmcl
    So says the person who is quite happy to reverse on to a complete stranger's private property.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Mar 17, 11:57 AM
    • 8,978 Posts
    • 5,714 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Are you able to prove this statement?
    Originally posted by kraken776
    Have you ever been able to prove any of your fantasies, sorry statements.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 12th Mar 17, 11:58 AM
    • 8,978 Posts
    • 5,714 Thanks
    bigadaj
    No, I didn't see that drop (clearly). That is a very bright light that blinds you and also causes the gates to cast a shadow on the trench. Plus, on the night in question, it was raining quite heavily and visibility was generally poor.

    The reason I was going to tell the council is not because of damage to my car but in the hope that they would make the homeowner mark-out the works so no-one else made a similar mistake.

    There's no damage to my wife's car. And I'm lucky that I have a 70,000 Range Rover that my wife was able to drive to me to pull the Mini out. In all, it was just a minor inconvenience. But for someone else it might cause them damage they can't afford and the need to pay for a tow truck. Not to mention the fact the homeowner is a very unpleasant chap and seems to be looking for financial gain from others' misfortune.

    But what I've learnt as I get older (and from joining these forums) is it's every man for themselves. Why should I tell the council? No-one stopped to help me or ask if I was ok. And reading back over this thread it's mainly accusations and people calling me a liar. So why should I think about other people or care what happens to them?

    So sod it. I'm ok and it seems that's all that matters these days. And who knows, maybe the next person to fall into that hole will be one of the many, many people who drive inches from my bumper or overtake me, beeping angrily when I'm (gasp) doing 30mph in a 30 zone. Or one of those inconsiderate people who sit at 60mph in the middle lane of the motorway. None of them care about me, or my safety, or the safety of others. They just care about getting to their destination three minutes earlier.
    Originally posted by deaston
    Brilliant!
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Mar 17, 12:05 PM
    • 1,421 Posts
    • 1,863 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    So says the person who is quite happy to reverse on to a complete stranger's private property.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Quite, a momentary use of somebody's land is so much more important than safety.
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