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  • FIRST POST
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 2nd Mar 17, 10:16 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 4Thanks
    talisker781
    Full and final offer advice
    • #1
    • 2nd Mar 17, 10:16 PM
    Full and final offer advice 2nd Mar 17 at 10:16 PM
    Good evening

    It has been sometime since I've visited this forum and life has very much gone on since my LMB around 2007. Although I won't in any way pretend it's been easy. Some very dark moments with redundancy, but you just have to get up each morning and keep going I guess.

    In 2007 I had some 60k in unsecured debt. Hard to believe now. All my own fault, no excuses. One thing is for sure I've learned to live without credit and I'll never go back! Learned the hard way...

    I'm currently on a DMP through payplan with unsecured debts at around 25k at present. It's been a long road, but I still have about 8 years left on my DMP at current pace, unless I get a huge pay rise.... Not likely....

    Recently due to some unfortunate circumstances I have been left 10k. I've never been in a position before where I've had a lump some of money and I want to try and break out of this burden of debt. I've heard of full and final offers. I was even made one once by one creditor but there was no way I could take advantage of it at the time.

    I'm going to speak to payplan in the morning but I wanted to see if any experts out there might know my chances of success? 10k offer against a 25k debt across 5 creditors, all now with debt collection agencies and I've never missed a payment on my DMP. No CCJs.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you

    G
Page 1
    • venison
    • By venison 2nd Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 788 Thanks
    venison
    • #2
    • 2nd Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Mar 17, 11:13 PM
    Its always worth a go, I'm sure the creditors would prefer 10k now rather than later.
    #WeStandTogether
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 3rd Mar 17, 1:09 AM
    • 10,596 Posts
    • 10,366 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 17, 1:09 AM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 17, 1:09 AM
    The problem with allowing payplan to deal with this, is that they will demand the 10k be paid to them upfront, they will then attempt to settle with your creditors.

    I am not a fan of that idea, I'd prefer to deal with the creditors myself, to see what kind of deals I could achieve.

    There are no guarantees, and if you pay the money to payplan, you could lose the lot, without getting the result you are after.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 3rd Mar 17, 6:44 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    talisker781
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 17, 6:44 AM
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 17, 6:44 AM
    That's really helpful advice - thank you.

    Have you any advice, template letters or links to where I could find these, as I wouldn't know where to start! For example, how do I work out what each creditor should get based on the lump sum I have and how much I owe them?

    Apologies it's just new territory for me and I really want to get this right first time (I'm unlikely to get a second chance!)

    Thanks in advance
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 3rd Mar 17, 8:52 AM
    • 10,689 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 17, 8:52 AM
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 17, 8:52 AM
    There's a sample letter here

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Full-and-final-settlement-offers-%28sole-name%29.aspx

    but don't reveal how much you are playing with. Start at 25 or 30 % and be prepared to negotiate. You want the final deal in writing before you pay up.

    Here are some percentages one poster achieved

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=69978335&postcount=1179
    • GibbsRule No3
    • By GibbsRule No3 3rd Mar 17, 9:04 AM
    • 622 Posts
    • 358 Thanks
    GibbsRule No3
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 17, 9:04 AM
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 17, 9:04 AM
    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/fullandfinalsettlementoffers/lumpsumoffers.aspx?gclid=CK6p8ez6udICFdRAGwod3oIH9 Q

    Link to template letters and info. I agree about doing it yourself. I was with Pay Plan but when I received my pension lump sum and PPI I made offers, pro-rata as suggested. Some accepted right away, others said they wanted more and Barclaycard said nothing would make them offer me a F&F, so the money from them went to the ones that wanted a bit more. I also told Pay Plan after settling, that I would NOT be paying Barclaycard anymore per month than they had been getting. It meant I had more money for myself per month. Good luck.
    Paddle No 21
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 3rd Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    • 10,689 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    fatbelly
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    The factsheet is fine until the final section 'how to work out your offer' - it implies you use all your money in your first offer. As Gibbs points out, most creditors will as a knee-jerk reaction, not accept your first offer and want a bit more.

    This is why I referred to negotiation which, if you're confident, you can do by phone - just get the final deal in writing before you pay up.

    Ideally you want to settle with all 5 creditors - keep us updated with how you get on.
    • redux
    • By redux 3rd Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    • 16,487 Posts
    • 20,230 Thanks
    redux
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    • #8
    • 3rd Mar 17, 11:46 AM
    Don't start by telling them you definitely have the money, or how much.

    Be vaguer, make it sound conditional, that some family money may become available to help you if you can negotiate decent settlement offers.

    If it becomes apparent that you can only settle 3 or 4 at the moment on a good discount, either if one stays very high, or if you don't quite have enough, then don't feel obliged to increase the monthly payment to the remainder. Keep it the same and talk to them again in a few months time.
  • National Debtline
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 17, 12:10 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Mar 17, 12:10 PM
    Hi talisker


    It's absolutely worth your while trying to negotiate a settlement now as the prospect of another 8 years on a DMP isn't necessarily any more attractive to your creditor than it is to you. The fact that you haven't missed payments on your DMP so far doesn't make any difference.


    If you get rebuffed at first, be prepared to go back and persist, whether immediately or months down the line. There's no limit to the number of times you can make such proposals.


    Dennis
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 3rd Mar 17, 12:54 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    talisker781
    Thank you all very very much for your time and advice. I'm incredibly grateful.


    I'll scrap calling Payplan and get going on the letters tonight. Once again this forum proves its worth 10 fold in its generosity of time and support.


    Thank you so much. I'll keep you updated.
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 16th Mar 17, 8:14 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    talisker781
    So. Update.

    I made F&F offers, all at 25% of the debt owed and they've all been politely rejected.

    I'd expected as much so not a shock. As I'm still in new territory I'd be delighted to hear what others may suggest at this stage -

    Hold tight and wait for them to come back or wait a few months then up the offer myself?

    I appreciate different things may work at different times but as I say I've only got one chance to get this right and would be very grateful for any experience anyone can share as to what worked for them.

    Thank you in advance. I feel like be still got a long way to go!
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 16th Mar 17, 8:32 PM
    • 10,689 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Did they (any of them) suggest what percentage might be accepted?
    • Marktheshark
    • By Marktheshark 16th Mar 17, 8:35 PM
    • 5,521 Posts
    • 6,924 Thanks
    Marktheshark
    Start by checking all the debt firms have the necessary paper work to be collecting the debts.
    You would be amazed how many can not cough up simple paper work they should hold to make the debt legally enforceable.

    we have seen some serious debts wiped out with one simple letter to lenders.
    Brexit will become whatever they invent it to be.
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 16th Mar 17, 9:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    talisker781
    Thank you both

    No, none of them gave any indication. They simply said that they had reviewed my offer and my current circumstances and we're not prepared to accept the offer. Admittedly it was low so I'm not surprised!
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 16th Mar 17, 10:43 PM
    • 10,689 Posts
    • 7,978 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Well their replies have not been helpful then. And Mark's idea has a lot of merit as it will force a response. For Consumer Credit Act debts (loans, credit cards, catalogues but not overdrafts or mobile phones for example) then you have the right to request a copy of your original agreement. The debt is then unenforceable until they produce a copy, which could be a reconstruction.

    For pre-2007 debts , which it sounds like these are, there is a stronger argument for unenforceability if no original agreement can be found.

    It may make your 25% offer look more attractive. We have seen lots of cases where the lender straight-out admitted they knew the debt was unenforceable!

    Again, National Debtline have the factsheet

    https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/getting-information/credit-agreement-advice.aspx
    • alianza
    • By alianza 16th Mar 17, 11:26 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    alianza
    I agree with the previous posters. I had been paying a DMP for 4 years when they stopped providing a service in October I stopped paying and eventually sent off CCA requests. One admitted the debt was unenforceable, one sent back a dodgy looking photocopy which was incomplete and I have written back to them and the other is still looking for the paperwork. I haven't paid any of them since October but have been putting the money I used to pay aside so maybe I can offer a settlement figure if they find the paperwork or a nice holiday if they cannot. If only I knew then what I have found out recently then I would not have blindly entered a DMP assuming that the DMP provider would check the enforceability of the debts for me.
    • talisker781
    • By talisker781 17th Mar 17, 7:30 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    talisker781
    This is extremely helpful and thank you all. This takes me into further new territory and one definitely worth exploring. I'll check out the fact sheet and get going on the next set of letters. Thank you!!
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