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  • FIRST POST
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 28th Feb 17, 5:24 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 14Thanks
    RadHimster
    Hospital PCN
    • #1
    • 28th Feb 17, 5:24 PM
    Hospital PCN 28th Feb 17 at 5:24 PM
    Afternoon. I have another thread going on another website. Merely sharing the story here as well as I've been reading various threads and information is always useful.

    Background:

    My vehicle was ticketed last December for failure to P&D. The car had been moved from a barriered area as no spaces were available to another location. Driver entered the hospital and after speaking to staff realised the new area was in fact P&D. Sought to remediate the error immediately and upon exiting the hospital noted the car had been ticketed. As luck(?) would have it an attendant was around and the situation was explained to see if anything could be done. Driver was told that as they had been polite about the whole situation if a ticket was purchased the PCN would be cancelled. Ticket was duly purchased more than covering entire time spent in the hospital (as the driver then had to go back in)...matter closed.

    Fast forward to February and a NtK landed on the doorstep explaining that:

    £100 is now payable. Appeal window has closed so any appeals will be at the discretion of 'the agency'

    A response was sent to the PPC explaining the situation and requesting they remove the PCN from their system based on the interaction between the driver and attendant. This didn't work. They said the appeal couldn't be accepted as it was outside the window and offered the IAS 'non standard' appeals route. A further response was sent saying an appeal hadn't been made, it was a request to remove the PCN from their system based on the previous point as any alleged contract had in fact been varied. The attendants offer had been taken in good faith, there was no reason to doubt otherwise.

    I have contacted PALS and forwarded on the above and they are following it up, presumably with the landowners. Awaiting response.

    The PPC in question is Parkshield Collection ltd, though they trade under the name of PCP Enforcement Agency.

    That is where it is at currently. A slightly different scenario to others I guess so thought it might be useful to share.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Mar 17, 12:59 AM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 1st Mar 17, 12:59 AM
    • #2
    • 1st Mar 17, 12:59 AM
    it was a request to remove the PCN from their system based on the previous point as any alleged contract had in fact been varied. The attendants offer had been taken in good faith, there was no reason to doubt otherwise.
    Nice one, good argument that the contract had been varied, he had agreed you could purchase a ticket.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 1st Mar 17, 1:02 AM
    • 7,235 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    pappa golf
    • #3
    • 1st Mar 17, 1:02 AM
    • #3
    • 1st Mar 17, 1:02 AM
    let me guess portsmouth?
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 1st Mar 17, 4:49 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    • #4
    • 1st Mar 17, 4:49 PM
    • #4
    • 1st Mar 17, 4:49 PM
    let me guess portsmouth?
    Originally posted by pappa golf
    You could be considered 'warm'.
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 16th Mar 17, 7:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:23 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Mar 17, 7:23 PM
    Update on the current situation:

    No further response regarding my last letter to the PPC and no mention of any contractual changes being made or mention of their employee at all. They have now moved forward and sent out a 'liability notification', presumably because they are past chasing the driver and feel POFA has been adhered too.

    It states there are now 28 days to pay or the potential for moving on to court action. PALS came back but weren't all that helpful, I have sent them a further email highlighting a few points in the hope it will jump them into action!

    I think, depending on the response from PALS, I've got two options:

    1: Respond and make an offer of some sort. I guess it would make me look reasonable should it go any further...although a ticket was actually purchased as per the attendants offer.

    2: Ignore/Send a letter explaining they haven't engaged with anything I've said and I'm not willing to engage further...short of official papers.

    What would the general consensus be. What have people found to be the best approach at this stage?

    Rgds, Rad.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Mar 17, 9:36 AM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:36 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:36 AM
    The PPC in question is Parkshield Collection ltd, though they trade under the name of PCP Enforcement Agency.
    I would do option 2, a combo of ignoring but after one direct written challenge, setting out your position assertively:

    2: Ignore/Send a letter explaining they haven't engaged with anything I've said and I'm not willing to engage further...short of official papers.
    As you said earlier, a variation of contract was offered by the attendant and agreed by you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 17th Mar 17, 9:13 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:13 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:13 PM
    How does this read;

    At no point during the dialogue between ourselves have you acknowledged or touched on any of the points I have raised and have continued to simply request payment of £100. I have asked on separate occasions for the PCN to be removed from your system as the matter was considered closed.

    For the avoidance of doubt. An employee of your company stated if a ticket was purchased the PCN would be cancelled. A ticket was purchased of which a copy was provided (twice). Any alleged contract between the driver and PCP (or Parkshield, or the landowners) was varied by the parking attendant and the information given was taken in good faith. There would be no reason to doubt otherwise.

    To continue to pursue this matter is unreasonable given no acknowledgement of the above appears to have been taken on board. No appeal has been logged due to the above; as far as I am concerned the PCN should not exist on your system and as such there should be no reason for an appeal. I have remained reasonable throughout the process and have made efforts to explain the situation & provide evidence where necessary but you appear to not want to engage with any point I make and instead appear to be following a rigid script which ultimately ends in a demand for £100.

    I will no longer respond to letters from you and I deny that any debt is owed. Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a vaguely masked attempt at 'double recovery', although given a ticket was purchased it might even be considered ‘triple’. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Too wordy, not wordy enough. Too abrupt, too...you get the idea. Constructive criticism always welcome
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Mar 17, 9:20 PM
    I would finally threaten them with a complaint to the Information Commissioner if they refuse to delete your data and cease processing it. Describe their behaviour as vexatious and causing alarm and distress. Tell them to treat this as a Section 10 Notice under the DPA, a formal Objection to Processing for which they now have 21 days to respond.

    You can find that wording recently used by others, by searching this board for 'Information Commissioner Section 10'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 18th May 17, 6:01 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 6:01 PM
    • #9
    • 18th May 17, 6:01 PM
    Ok, just an update as the wheels are still turning!

    I send off my letter explaining that they had at no point engaged with anything I said or the fact I'd paid for a ticket and shown proof. I subsequently got through a letter with giant font saying 'FINAL NOTICE'...again just demanding payment of £100, this was dated April 21st. I have now, today received my latest letter.

    https:// drive.google.com/open?id=0BwMC0GFedSBJb1ZyRXV6NlJwQW8

    Usual letter it would seem with further threats of additional costs to be added, CCJ against me potentially and the fact they might send the bailiffs round...thankfully they have provided me the opportunity once again to make amends and pay! Interestingly enough they don't name their Legal clerk and the signature is missing. The letter also refers to PCP almost as if this letter is from someone different when clearly it isn't.

    Presumably nobody bothers replying to these and waits for...if it arrives, an initial letter from their 'solicitors' where upon the back & forth begins again.

    **You just need to remove the space between https:// and drive. If I shouldn't be circumventing the ability to post images then I'll happy remove the link, just felt it was useful to show**
    Last edited by RadHimster; 19-05-2017 at 3:58 PM.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th May 17, 6:09 PM
    • 14,024 Posts
    • 22,041 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwMC0GFedSBJb1ZyRXV6NlJwQW8

    Ignore unless you get a LBC or MCOL claim. If they took you to court, you'd be their 4th case in almost 2.5 years. Most unlikely.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • dadsma
    • By dadsma 18th May 17, 8:54 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    dadsma
    May I suggest a complaint to CEO of the hospital about the untoward and aggressive correspondence from their contractor. Request the hospital to order the pcn cancelled.
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 24th May 17, 12:41 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    I did initially complain to the PALs but they were unfortunately not particularly helpful in this instance. I hadn't thought about mailing the CEO of the hospital directly however and will look into that.
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 11th Aug 17, 12:59 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    It continues...as to be expected. I've gone through the normal debt collector stage and ignored accordingly. I've now received a letter from Gladstones, it appears genuine as the reference starts with 1..xxxxx.

    The letter talks about the fact their client *may* instruct them to take legal action and is using them at the moment, basically, as a debt collector.

    As this isn't just a vanilla debt collector and does actually appear to be Gladstones is the recommended approach to reply robustly denying the debt and explaining that the client has been provided evidence on multiple occasions disputing the claim without going into specifics? Or, do you just wait for a proper LBC if they ever went that route?

    I've had a browse through the forum but can't see anything much relating to apparently genuine G's letters that aren't LBC's.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Aug 17, 1:14 PM
    • 32,402 Posts
    • 16,496 Thanks
    Quentin
    It's not a letter before court action.

    Note use of "may".
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Aug 17, 1:19 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You can find a reply I wrote, to be adapted by whoever wants to use it, by searching 'Gallstones'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 12th Aug 17, 3:09 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    Coupon, I found your thread and had a read. The letter the OP references is far more wordy than mine. I have attached a copy of the letter I received, it reads more like a debt collector letter. There is no real content to it and looks very roboclaim-esque but it is from G's.

    https ://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwMC0GFedSBJeDBaRGxSTlVyZEE

    I would think a firm response denying debt and outlining the matter to date would be sufficient? I guess it's not an official LBC so I could just ignore it, I feel it looks better to at least acknowledge it though?
    Last edited by RadHimster; 12-08-2017 at 3:29 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Aug 17, 1:12 PM
    • 48,929 Posts
    • 62,411 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes and no harm in replying - and certainly complaining to the landowners, and to your MP.

    Their final paragraph 'advises' you to contact one of the following organisations, then lists none (unless they are on a second page?). What a terrible letter.

    You could also look at Johnersh's suggested response to Wright Hassall's similarly misleading 'debt' letters and adapt that one, or some of it, as he is legally qualified and it is based around a planned formal complaint to the SRA.

    Found by searching 'Johnersh cathartic' I think.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 16th Aug 17, 10:47 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    Well, I've knocked up a response. How does this read to the casual observer?

    In response to your letter dated xx/xx/xx. I have attempted to engage with your client numerous times since I received the first letter from them and have outlined my position and provided evidence of a purchased ticket on two separate occasions. At no point during the dialogue between your client and I have they discussed any of the points made and have merely continued with the automated process of demanding payment.

    In my last correspondence with your client I stated that I denied any debt was owed. This is still my stance owing to the fact that a ticket was purchased and due to the particulars of the incident which I expect your client will have shared with you. Should your client wish to take this further I will happily defend myself in a small claims court if required. I strongly believe, in this instance, it to be an inappropriate use of the courts but I will not be bullied into paying for something which shouldn’t even exist, especially when evidence has been provided contrary to the claim.

    I would also like to highlight a couple of points from your letter which I find misleading.

    1: Your letter points out the importance of understanding what a registered judgment against me could mean.

    The Court will determine any dispute if proceedings are commenced. In the event that a Judgment is awarded in your client's favour then provided that Judgment is paid promptly there will be no CCJ registered against my name. This is not made clear precisely to prompt the recipient into early payment and to discourage any defence of the action.

    2: At £160 the debt sought would appear to be set at a level beyond that which is likely to be recoverable in the small claims court (or at all) and may therefore misstate the correct legal position regarding the recovery of the parking charge in this matter, were your client to be successful.


    Any amendments/suggestions are welcome.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Aug 17, 2:29 PM
    • 14,024 Posts
    • 22,041 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    What are you hoping your letter will achieve?

    This is the link to the suggested Johnersh letter (he is legally qualified) to fire at WH.

    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • RadHimster
    • By RadHimster 17th Aug 17, 9:35 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    RadHimster
    Well, I know what I hope it will achieve though I'm under no illusion that it'll actually achieve sweet f.a if I'm honest. I guess I just want to feel like I'm being pro active about it, naivety I suppose.

    I did read through that originally and have amended a few bits in a minor fashion to fit my reply. I'm responding to a different letter from Gladstones as opposed to a debt recovery agent writing on solicitor paper, so parts of that response wouldn't make sense.
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