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  • FIRST POST
    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 26th Feb 17, 12:11 PM
    • 34Posts
    • 4Thanks
    LGTH
    Claim Form received - no NTK, no LBA received before
    • #1
    • 26th Feb 17, 12:11 PM
    Claim Form received - no NTK, no LBA received before 26th Feb 17 at 12:11 PM
    Hello,

    I have received a Claim form from County Court Business Centre in Northampton on behalf of one of the solicitor companies that is extensively discussed in the forum. I understood I have 14 days + 5 days to pay. For a while I was so petrified, that I did not do anything about it. Now that the deadline is approaching, I am considering to pay. they are asking for approx. £226 which is a considerable amount of money (£150 for parking charges + interest, £25 for court fee, £50 for legal representative's costs).

    This is the first time I have found out I have an outstanding parking charge. There was no NTK and no LBA received. I am a RK but was not the driver. I also have never been to that place where the parking charge was incurred. The driver who got the fine is ignoring/rejecting the calls from me, so I cannot find out what happened there.
    I would be considering to name the driver but it does not seem it is possible at this stage, ie I would have needed to do that when NTK would have been received.

    If I decided to go to court , my problem is that legal terminology is hard to understand while the wording is everything in there.

    I am quite scared (about how this situation would affect my credit rating) so I apologize if the above is not coherent. Could I please get some advise what would be the best option. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by LGTH; 10-03-2017 at 10:41 PM. Reason: irrelevant
Page 2
    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 27th Mar 17, 8:02 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    I am trying to write a covering letter in response to special directions.

    "The Defendant has been informed that the Claimant has proposed a hearing on the papers because it considers the matter to be relatively straightforward.
    The Claimant also requests to transfer the hearing to the Claimant’s local court if the Defendant does not consent.
    The Defendant objects strongly to these proposals.
    The Defendant denies that the matter is relatively straightforward.
    The issues in dispute include unclear Particulars of Claim and total lack of acknowledgement regarding originals or copies of any evidence or proof of the alleged charge.
    As a litigant in person, the defendant would be seriously disadvantaged against the claimant, a parking company that has employed its trade association's solicitor to prepare its documents. The defendant will probably also wish to question the claimant regarding its witness statement and other documents.
    The defendant will in particular wish to verify that evidence of the alleged breach and required documents with statutory wording under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have been served served to the Defendant.
    If the case is not struck out due to incoherent particulars failing to meet the requirements of CPR16.4 and PD16 7.3 - 75, the Defendant therefore requests that the matter is transferred to his local court in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules when the Defendant is a consumer."

    Should I also include that Claimant has to prove the Defendant was the driver on the date of the incident? Or is it irrelevant?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 8:21 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The defendant will in particular wish to verify that evidence of the alleged breach and required documents with statutory wording under The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 have been served served to the Defendant. In the alternative, if not able to rely upon that Act, this Claimant must show evidence as to the identity of the driver. Absent evidence of one or the other, this Claimant has no claim in law against a registered keeper defendant.
    You could cover it by adding something like the suggested extra bit in blue above.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 27th Mar 17, 8:27 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Thanks Coupon-mad for the advise and your patience. Perhaps I am not a completely lost case. In any case this is a excellent learning curve (if very unpleasant) and a good exercise for me.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 8:37 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You are not a lost cause - I work too hard and am a sarky moo sometimes on here...sorry!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 27th Mar 17, 9:41 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Nothing really to be sorry about

    Claimant outlined dates not available referring to email. In the email ( nor in N180 or anywhere else) there are no dates at all. Is that something to be worried about? How do I find out what dates they cannot attend?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 9:53 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Does it matter, not really. Just state the dates YOU can't meet. Here is backtobasix' letter in post #106, which got his case stayed:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72037750#post72037750

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 27th Mar 17, 10:20 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    I see. Last question, a bit silly but I have never done anything of this sort:

    Do I need to address the letter (like Honourable Judge, or ???) to someone and then sign it like yours sincerely. Do I need to include my address and then the court's like in any other standard letter?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 27th Mar 17, 10:22 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Mark it along the top:

    FTAO the overseeing Judge (Small Claims Track case allocation and orders), CCBC.



    Dear Sir/Madam,


    yours faithfully,

    and your name (Defendant)
    and full postal address
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 27th Apr 17, 11:32 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Evening guys,

    After sending off N180 (cofirmed by Court via phone and via MCOL as received) I am still waiting to hear from Court where the hearing will take place which is over a month now. Is this normal?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Apr 17, 11:34 PM
    • 15,930 Posts
    • 24,711 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Evening guys,

    After sending off N180 (cofirmed by Court via phone and via MCOL as received) I am still waiting to hear from Court where the hearing will take place which is over a month now. Is this normal?
    Originally posted by LGTH
    Phone the court and ask - they are usually very helpful.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 9th Jul 17, 4:10 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Good afternoon,

    I have been informed that the hearing will be in my Home Court at the end of July and it will take around one hour. the letter from Court told to send in WS before 14 days before hearing. So I have a couple of days to do this. Also received a WS from Claimant via email (and all other correspondence from them). They ripped my defence apart and I am panicking once again.
    What should be in the WS as the Claimant's also included the defence with other documentation that has been asked for by me (some missing though). Do I have to do that too?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 4:16 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They ripped my defence apart
    Highly doubt it! These firms file template drivel.

    Show us the contract and signs and the WS, all hosted in Dropbox, so we can have a laugh at it and rip it apart.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 9th Jul 17, 5:28 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    I have tried everything but Dropbox would not open, it goes into not responding mode. are there any other ways to upload?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 5:29 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Photobucket or tinypic, any photo/scan hosting site.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 9th Jul 17, 5:57 PM
    • 33,552 Posts
    • 17,434 Thanks
    Quentin
    The footer in those links looks to reveal your identity.

    If you are that person then take the pictures down and remove the links
    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 9th Jul 17, 6:05 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Not the name which appears on the claim form, so should be ok?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jul 17, 6:09 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Not the name which appears on the claim form, so should be ok?
    Originally posted by LGTH
    Yes, that's OK.

    You think a TEMPLATE response has ripped your defence apart, LOL?! Look at the link to tidegu's one he/she received:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72749330#post72749330

    ...recognise the Witness Statement wording? Exact same style/wording. Load of rubbish.

    See my reply to tidegu, an example of a Witness Statement which rips into their drivel (e.g. Elliott v Loake, and their assertion that you were 'required' to name the driver - you absolutely and categorically were not).

    Now, stop giving in and see this for what it is, exactly the pile of BS we expected.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 10th Jul 17, 12:09 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    Couple of questions have been on my mind:

    When you submit your WS with evidence, is it normal "practice" with Parking companies to bring some more evidence to court, like maybe documents obtained elsewhere and posts from forums, etc.
    Or is it only evidence from WS?

    Since the Claimant is stating that more than likely RK was the driver, should they have also included in the evidence pack NTD stuck on the vehicle at the time of the event? Is that of any importance or not?

    In regard to grace period: what would be the reasonable amount of time to read the sign and /or get permit?
    Last edited by LGTH; 10-07-2017 at 1:49 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jul 17, 2:57 PM
    • 51,787 Posts
    • 65,422 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Couple of questions have been on my mind:

    When you submit your WS with evidence, is it normal "practice" with Parking companies to bring some more evidence to court, like maybe documents obtained elsewhere and posts from forums, etc.
    Or is it only evidence from WS?
    Originally posted by LGTH
    Not posts from forums, but things like:

    - the Beavis case sign as an example of a clear sign with the parking charge of £85 in the largest lettering, as a comparison.

    - And Henry Greenslade's words about 'understanding keeper liability' from the POPLA Annual Report 2015.

    - a copy of your car insurance if it shows more than one named driver - showing that the keeper might not have been the driver, on the balance of probabilities.

    - transcripts from useful cases on the Parking Prankster's case law page, such as Excel v Lamoureux & Pace v Lengyel.


    Since the Claimant is stating that more than likely RK was the driver, should they have also included in the evidence pack NTD stuck on the vehicle at the time of the event? Is that of any importance or not?
    Yes they should have included it (both sides), if there was a NTD placed on the car. Because if they then sent a NTK between day 29 and day 56, they must also show a NTD was served first - in accordance with para 7 and 8 of the POFA Sch4.


    In regard to grace period: what would be the reasonable amount of time to read the sign and /or get permit?
    At least ten minutes, as per the Code of Practice.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • LGTH
    • By LGTH 10th Jul 17, 3:05 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    LGTH
    So if the images they have sent show there was a yellow sticker with something inside on the windscreen and they did not include it the evidence pack (can they do that at the hearing?).
    Is it something to point out to the judge?

    Photos provided are a few minutes apart, can I question that?
    Last edited by LGTH; 10-07-2017 at 3:13 PM.
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