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  • FIRST POST
    • blue-bottle
    • By blue-bottle 24th Feb 17, 11:22 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 3Thanks
    blue-bottle
    Gigaclear terms include permanent Wayleave
    • #1
    • 24th Feb 17, 11:22 AM
    Gigaclear terms include permanent Wayleave 24th Feb 17 at 11:22 AM
    Before signing up for Gigaclear fibre broadband, I suggest that their Broadband Service
    Terms for Residential Customers is given careful consideration, especially the section that allows them to " place apparatus on your property and permits us to keep it there and maintain it. You should ensure that any future purchaser of your property is made aware of the existence of this Wayleave and the position of our apparatus"

    You will note that this does not terminate at the end of the contract, and that it is not limited to the hardware required for your connection, so general network infrastructure could be installed and maintained anywhere on your premises and at any time. (There is no separate Wayleave agreement to scope the types of equipment, access required, repair of damage, etc..)

    Wayleaves are normally used to permit such things as electricity poles and cables for third parties, and are not required for the customer connection, which is covered by the customer service agreement.

    I have checked with Gigaclear, who confirmed that "The wayleave permission as outlined under 2.6 of our residential broadband agreement (attached) is a formality which allows us to keep our apparatus on your land permanently"
    and
    "We do not have a separate set of terms & conditions for wayleave"

    This may be an unfair term, but I have not been able to confirm this yet.

    I have contacted Ofcom, who said that the terms are commercial decisions and not something Ofcom can become involved in. (Strange, because they are a regulator under Schedule 3 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, with the power to enforce the law on unfair contract terms and notices. )
    I have also contacted the Competition and Markets Authority, where it is in progress.
    Last edited by blue-bottle; 24-02-2017 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Typo in last paragraph
Page 1
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 24th Feb 17, 12:29 PM
    • 2,387 Posts
    • 638 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #2
    • 24th Feb 17, 12:29 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Feb 17, 12:29 PM
    sneeky

    Thanks for letting us know
    • lashall
    • By lashall 7th Apr 17, 8:39 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lashall
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 17, 8:39 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 17, 8:39 AM
    Is there any further update on this. I personally spoke to Gigaclear who said they would not attempt to put any equipment on my land other than for my connection. So I said, great no need for it in the contract then, can it be removed......they refused!
    • lashall
    • By lashall 7th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lashall
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 17, 8:44 AM
    Further update, I spoke to a solicitor around this and though they specialised in commercial wayleaves, they couldn't actually understand the need for a permanent wayleave in a residential broadband connection type situation such as this. I have therefore cancelled my connection.....no fibre for me, not with Gigaclear anyway until this is resolved.
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 7th Apr 17, 9:12 AM
    • 2,858 Posts
    • 1,946 Thanks
    lee111s
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 17, 9:12 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 17, 9:12 AM
    Nose. Face. Spite.
    • bengalknights
    • By bengalknights 7th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    • 4,140 Posts
    • 1,511 Thanks
    bengalknights
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 17, 9:33 AM
    What area are you in?

    I could do with some gigabit net
    • lashall
    • By lashall 8th Apr 17, 8:20 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lashall
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 17, 8:20 PM
    Gigaclear wayleave
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 17, 8:20 PM
    Nose, spite, face-
    Hope you are not referring to me. I did not join this forum to trade insults, if you do not have anything constructive to add simply don't it's much easier for all involved.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 8th Apr 17, 9:42 PM
    • 25,860 Posts
    • 10,294 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 17, 9:42 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 17, 9:42 PM
    Put the account into someone elses name who does not own the property?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • lee111s
    • By lee111s 9th Apr 17, 3:06 PM
    • 2,858 Posts
    • 1,946 Thanks
    lee111s
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 17, 3:06 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 17, 3:06 PM
    Nose, spite, face-
    Hope you are not referring to me. I did not join this forum to trade insults, if you do not have anything constructive to add simply don't it's much easier for all involved.
    Originally posted by lashall
    That was not an insult. If that were my intention, you'd know about it.
    • lashall
    • By lashall 10th Apr 17, 10:06 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lashall
    I had thought of that but cannot put broadband in someone else's name as the permanent wayleave can only be granted by property/landowner hence in theory Gigaclear will need to have permission from said person.
    • blue-bottle
    • By blue-bottle 8th May 17, 11:28 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blue-bottle
    A little more information.
    It appears that Gigaclear have a dedicated team for handling Wayleaves in the conventional way (search for gigaclear wayleaves) i.e. a separate written agreement as follows:-

    "A wayleave is the consent in writing that allows us to carry out work on privately-owned land. It’s a written legal agreement between Gigaclear and the land/property owner that grants us access to install, maintain or repair our network equipment.
    All wayleave agreement queries are now handled by our dedicated projects team. For further information please get in touch at .......(see web page for address)"

    I wonder if the Wayleave section in the terms and conditions is a way of slipping this in without the inconvenience and cost of a separate (and properly scoped) agreement (and incidentally not allowing the service UNLESS this is agreed to).

    I have not had a response to my emails to the Wayleaves team requesting a proper scope for the agreement. Maybe someone else will have more luck.
    • blue-bottle
    • By blue-bottle 17th Jun 17, 5:44 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blue-bottle
    Another minor update. I thought I was making some progress when someone from Internal Sales contacted me to try to get me to sign up, but as soon as I asked about Wayleaves, the responses to my emails stopped. Strange that!
    • blue-bottle
    • By blue-bottle 24th Aug 17, 8:52 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blue-bottle
    Another update, but still not very helpful. I tried asking Superfast Berkshire for comments on the Wayleave. (Superfast Berkshire gave Gigaclear the contract). They actually managed to get an answer from Gigaclear, although it did include "As I understand it", so not something to be relied upon, however, the response did state quite clearly that "He either agrees to the Terms and Conditions and receive [sic] a service from us or he will need to seek another supplier".
    There is no other supplier, and they know it. That is why they were given the contract in the first place!
    Imagine not being allowed to rent a car unless you agree to having a petrol station in your garden so provide fuel for other car users, at some time in the future, maybe, if they decide to.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 24th Aug 17, 8:58 PM
    • 31,739 Posts
    • 37,453 Thanks
    Browntoa
    BT has the absolute right to put equipment on your land even if you refuse

    They would try to agree a wayleave but if not they can install

    Part of their licence and assume it's in their terms somewhere
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I'm a volunteer to help them run smoothly and I can move and merge posts there. However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • blue-bottle
    • By blue-bottle 25th Aug 17, 10:01 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blue-bottle
    The normal procedure would be for the company to attempt to negotiate Wayleave conditions (including payments) for infrastructure equipment to supply third parties to be installed on the property. If agreement could not be reached, then the company could apply through the courts.
    This has nothing whatsoever to do with providing a broadband service to the customer.
    Gigaclear are forcing customers to accept a blanket Wayleave (with undefined scope) before they can receive the broadband service.
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 25th Aug 17, 5:36 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    iniltous
    Compulsory wayleaves are pretty rare and absolutely the last resort, but if Openreach have a universal service obligation to supply service to anyone who reasonably requests it, and a third party who's permission may be needed to satisfy the USO, refuses to allow access to their land/building etc, it sort of puts OR in a difficult position , hence the last resort option of a compulsory wayleave applied for via the 'courts' and as others have said, not in any way comparable to the OP's situation, as the provider they mention has no USO at all
    • GTSS9486
    • By GTSS9486 27th Aug 17, 10:51 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    GTSS9486
    OP,
    You're making a mountain out of a molehill. All Gigaclear are asking is that they be allowed to install and maintain their equipment on your private land....which is basically a fibre optic cable running u/g and router/ONT. They'll probably never have to touch their equipment once installed, but the way you're carrying on, you'd think they were requesting for a rave party in your front garden every night 99.99999% of people would happily accept a wayleave agreement in exchange for fibreoptic broadband with speeds of up to 1000 Mbps.
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 27th Aug 17, 12:54 PM
    • 1,346 Posts
    • 474 Thanks
    iniltous
    OP,
    You're making a mountain out of a molehill. All Gigaclear are asking is that they be allowed to install and maintain their equipment on your private land....which is basically a fibre optic cable running u/g and router/ONT. They'll probably never have to touch their equipment once installed, but the way you're carrying on, you'd think they were requesting for a rave party in your front garden every night 99.99999% of people would happily accept a wayleave agreement in exchange for fibreoptic broadband with speeds of up to 1000 Mbps.
    Originally posted by GTSS9486
    Although the OP can speak for themselves, It appears that the service provider was asked if the wayleave was limited to the 'equipment' required just to provide service to that individual dwelling and they didn't confirm that and were not willing to commit to providing an individual contract wording stating exactly that.
    • GTSS9486
    • By GTSS9486 27th Aug 17, 3:56 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    GTSS9486
    Although the OP can speak for themselves, It appears that the service provider was asked if the wayleave was limited to the 'equipment' required just to provide service to that individual dwelling and they didn't confirm that and were not willing to commit to providing an individual contract wording stating exactly that.
    Originally posted by iniltous
    Well common sense suggests that the wayleave Gigaclear refer to isn't about giving them permanent rights to putting in a new garage or a zoo or doing whatever they want willy-nilly in the OPs private land. Its simply to provide & maintain a pure fibre optic broadband service and it primarily consists of a fibre optic cable (usually buried) and a ONT/router. I would assume the OP is living in a rural area (Gigaclear mainly install in rural areas) and rather than moan about a non-trivial matter such as wayleave for an essential utility, he/she should be extremely grateful that a gigabit capable service is being brought to their doorstep. There are probably hundreds of thousands of rural residents who would give an arm & a leg for FTTP broadband service to their homes instead of being stuck of 2 Mbps broadband.
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 27th Aug 17, 4:03 PM
    • 3,258 Posts
    • 5,527 Thanks
    martinthebandit
    Well common sense suggests that the wayleave Gigaclear refer to isn't about giving them permanent rights to putting in a new garage or a zoo or doing whatever they want willy-nilly in the OPs private land. Its simply to provide & maintain a pure fibre optic broadband service and it primarily consists of a fibre optic cable (usually buried) and a ONT/router. I would assume the OP is living in a rural area (Gigaclear mainly install in rural areas) and rather than moan about a non-trivial matter such as wayleave for an essential utility, he/she should be extremely grateful that a gigabit capable service is being brought to their doorstep. There are probably hundreds of thousands of rural residents who would give an arm & a leg for FTTP broadband service to their homes instead of being stuck of 2 Mbps broadband.
    Originally posted by GTSS9486
    Common sense also suggests that, if your post is correct, there is no need for such a strange and draconian clause in a domestic contract.

    Common sense also suggests that I smell a company representative hiding their real motives.
    Politics -
    from the words Poli, meaning many
    and tics meaning blood sucking parasites


    (thanks to Kinky Friedman (or Larry Hardman) for the quote}
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