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  • FIRST POST
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 24th Feb 17, 8:48 AM
    • 30Posts
    • 6Thanks
    dizzybee001
    Deeds not transferred on leasehold garage, owner missing!
    • #1
    • 24th Feb 17, 8:48 AM
    Deeds not transferred on leasehold garage, owner missing! 24th Feb 17 at 8:48 AM
    Hi, sorry this is really long and complicated.
    I am hoping someone can give me some honest advice.
    I bought a townhouse 5 years ago with a garage under a coach house. At the time I was not told that the garage was leasehold, and it never occurred to me to ask. My solicitor sent back queries to the sellers solicitor as there was a clause in the land registry contract? for the house about it not being able to be sold without the leasehold of the apartment. The sellers solicitor came back with the answer that it 'must be an error as the house is freehold'.
    I have had sole use of the garage, have never been asked for any contribution for any insurance, etc. Neither has my neighbour who owns a garage in the same block.
    It's only now that I want to sell my house, that I have discovered that the garage is indeed leasehold and there should be a separate land registry document for it. I have looked through all the correspondence from my solicitor and the original contract between Persimmon and the original buyer shows the draft leasehold contract and draft land registry document.
    I have got in touch with my solicitors firm (the solicitor that dealt with my purchase has now left), and they have discovered that the land registry certificate for the garage was never transferred from the original owner to my seller.
    There have been three owners of the house - the 1st bought the house new
    Then the second was my seller.
    So, the garage needs to be registered into my name, as the house is.
    This is my problem. I am in touch with the original owner, and he has agreed to sign whatever is necessary to transfer the leasehold to me. Unfortunately though, his ex-partner who co owned the house with him has vanished, it was an ugly split and she has disappeared, even if we did manage to find her it is unlikely that she will sign the forms.
    So, will both original owners need to sign the Transfer form, bearing in mind that that there is this clause in the land registry for the freehold house that the house cannot be sold without the garage, so there was full intention for them to sell both together? Or can just one of them sign it over to me?
    What do I tell any buyers if I sell my house?
    How long could this take to sort out?
    Thanks, I know that was very long I am so so worried about this as I have found a new house and just want this sorted!
Page 3
    • martindow
    • By martindow 18th May 17, 10:19 AM
    • 6,975 Posts
    • 3,839 Thanks
    martindow
    Hi thanks for all the advice, still holding on for an answer, the buyer has told us we need to give them a timescale by this Friday which I don't think willl happen!
    He has also said that he will need to move into temporary rental accommodation, and he would expect us to pay 900 a month towards this!!
    We will wait and see ......

    Kirtondm, thank you as well, really appreciate your help.

    Will keep you posted .........
    Originally posted by dizzybee001
    If they pull out they won't buy somewhere else by Friday! They have been foolish to arrange to leave where they are before exchange. Hopefully the estate agent will tell the buyers that it will take as long as it takes and let them calm down.

    Of course if they need to rent it will cost them some money but this is set off against what they would need to pay for the mortgage.

    Hope it works out in the end.
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 18th May 17, 10:23 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    Hi, thank you for your reply.
    Yes, quite, I have pointed out that whatever they decide to do, they will have to move to temporary accommodation. They are renting now, I'm not sure why they couldn't stay on there, but obviously have decided to leave.
    I was thinking about offering them a little contribution if they hung in there, but 900?? That means that their rent goes down to 400 a month, and they make a lot of money from me!! I thought it was ridiculous, and although I don't want to lose my buyer, I am confident that if this happens that I will find another one fairly soon
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 18th May 17, 10:36 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    I've just heard that the land registry have rejected our application.


    gutted.
    • kirtondm
    • By kirtondm 18th May 17, 10:50 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    kirtondm
    what do your solicitors now suggest?
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 18th May 17, 11:13 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    He is going to go back to the Land registry and explain that we may be able to get statutory declarations from me, the original owner, and his solicitor. I'm not sure of the difference between that and what we have already done.
    We will start the tracing process for the other original owner, I have found her on facebook, but as I don't know her I don't know if it will do more harm or good contacting her myself. I suppose, nothing ventured, and all that.
    Very disappointed as it seem very likely that this will take too much time, and we will lose not only our buyer but the new house too.
    However, I am trying very hard to count my blessings, and there are many, I mustnt' complain because there are people are lot worse off than me .
    • kirtondm
    • By kirtondm 18th May 17, 12:03 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    kirtondm
    i would imagine an inducement to the other owner might be the quickest way to resolve?
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 18th May 17, 12:09 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    You mean offer her money? Might work, it would go against all my principles!, but I am a getting a little desperate now...
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 18th May 17, 5:54 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    So my solicitor has instructed a tracing agent to track her down.
    If they manage to find her, and she refuses to sign, how long would it take before we can go to court to get them to sign on her behalf? I think that's our worst case scenario.

    Thanks.
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 19th May 17, 9:34 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    Just heard from my solicitor:
    I have spoken to the Land Registry and they will not agree to accept any further evidence


    So we have to go down the tracing route. I can't believe that the Land Registry are being this obtuse about a garage, I could understand if it was a house, but this is a garage, linked to a house in the title deeds, that cannot be transferred separately, that I have had full use and access to for nearly 6 years!!!!


    So, to trace this lady could take months, then she will refuse to sign, then a court will have to be appointed to sign for her. In the meantime, we lose our sale and we lose our new house.


    Fuming


    My solicitor has never mentioned costs to sort this, and I don't think I should have to pay as it was never picked up by them when I bought the property, but I'm wondering whether I should bring this matter up, as it will obviously cost to appoint a tracing agent and to go to court.
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 19th May 17, 10:33 AM
    • 913 Posts
    • 581 Thanks
    rtho782
    A tracing agent is a couple of thousand pounds alone. I would definitely be sure who is paying for this!
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: 13,000 / 15,000 House Bought!

    Debt Cleared since 01/12/15: 6,000 / 7,500
    • kirtondm
    • By kirtondm 19th May 17, 11:25 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    kirtondm
    If you already have her on facebook do you need a tracing agent? Surely she could just be approached?

    How would a court be able to sign on her behalf if she refuses? Before our garage was signed over all parties were sent a letter saying they could object whcih would have blocked the transfer if they had replied.

    Could you approach the cost liablity issue along the grounds they were negligent in allowing the transfer in breech of the coveneants?

    I wrote a letter to the senior partner when the s**t hit the fan with ours and they confrimed they would meet the costs.
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 19th May 17, 11:44 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    Hi
    I don't have her on facebook, I've found her on facebook. I've sent a message, we will see if she answers. If we had an address we could ask her if she objects, but we have to find her first.


    My solicitor has been very clear on costs to sell the property, and he has never given any implication that I would be liable for any of the costs to sort this out. I agree that they were negligent, and I will argue that if they try to charge me anything. I'll let them go ahead and sort it out, if they then try to charge me I too will be writing to the senior partner!


    This is a complete nightmare, and I am so stressed with it all.
    • dizzybee001
    • By dizzybee001 20th May 17, 2:12 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    dizzybee001
    Update!!
    I sent a really nice message to the original owner saying sorry for bothering her etc but this was holding up my sale, please could she sign the paperwork if I got her in touch with my solicitor.
    I got a really stroppy answer back, basically she wants nothing to do with it all, she felt that she had been forced to sign the original papers and she refused to be intimidated to sign these, that the house has been sold twice since and to not contact her again.
    So, she said no!!
    We've lost our buyer and Taylor wimpey have given us two weeks to sort this out or they will have to remarket their property. Which is fair enough really.
    So, because I was the only one to pick up this mistake, because two solicitors and land registry have missed this and transferred the house without the garage, twice, even though the deeds clearly state they shouldn't have, I am now left with a house I can't sell.
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