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    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 23rd Feb 17, 9:54 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 14Thanks
    kcking43
    Have I appealed to soon
    • #1
    • 23rd Feb 17, 9:54 PM
    Have I appealed to soon 23rd Feb 17 at 9:54 PM
    My wife is seriously ill in a mental hospital and the parking company issued me a ticket earlier this evening (19:42) as I was not displaying a permit. I was not able to obtain a ticket as there was no one in the reception so parked and went to the secure ward. Note: There are no Pay and Display machines.
    In my rage as to the lack of compassion from "ethical parking management" I filed an appeal on their website as soon as I could when I got home. The crux of my appeal being lack of an operative to issue a permit and prior evidence of my compliance with their permit regime (typically during office hours).

    Viewing the excellent advice on this forum I am now concerned I may have been too hasty in appealing. Added to which I have owned up to being the keeper of the vehicle which I now regret.

    What is my best approach from here?

    Thanks in advance.
Page 2
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Feb 17, 2:50 PM
    • 16,110 Posts
    • 20,176 Thanks
    Redx
    you have approximately 28 days to submit a popla appeal , 33 at the very most and that is stretching it

    the PPC should issue the NTK between day 29 and day 56 , so awaiting an NTK would be a waste of time due to your acting too hastily to start with and would mean your popla appeal would not be allowed to be submitted (missed the deadline)

    a PALS cancellation (backed up in writing from the PPC) is still your best solution, but the POPLA appeal needs to be submitted within 4 weeks , or less
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 25th Feb 17, 4:26 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    kcking43
    Okay, well and truly repenting at leisure!

    As I acted hastily on Thursday, hey I was very angry, and they may claim knowledge of the driver I will process the POPLA over the coming days.

    PALS, when I finally got the right one, were very matter of fact but will take my case forward with the hospitals estates management team. I should hear back early next week.

    Frustrated that I am having to take value time to deal with these parasites.

    Thanks Redx for your knowledge and support on this.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 25th Feb 17, 4:58 PM
    • 16,110 Posts
    • 20,176 Thanks
    Redx
    no worries , its appalling that you have to go through this because the trust didnt staff the desk where you were to get your parking permit from, its their incompetence that has caused this and is not your fault

    hopefully they will see sense and get it cancelled for you, but you need confirmation from not so ETHICAL in writing that there is no further charge , so a cancellation from ethical in writing - keep this safe for 6 years as these parking companies like to play silly beggars and it would be your written proof

    and the trust should also issue you with a written apology as well, due to their staff shortages causing you unnecessary worry and stress for no obvious reason , so INSIST on this too and keep that safe for 6 years along with your other paperwork on this

    you cannot be too careful with these modern day rick turpins !
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Feb 17, 12:35 AM
    • 50,736 Posts
    • 64,145 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I will process the POPLA over the coming days.
    Wait a bit, see the complaint through first.

    As I acted hastily on Thursday, hey I was very angry, and they may claim knowledge of the driver
    You admitted who was driving?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 26th Feb 17, 2:05 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    kcking43
    Unfortunately when I made my appeal, as I now know in haste, there were boxes to tick for driver, keeper or both and I stupidly ticked both!

    Learnt my lesson now, so will draw up the POPLA appeal and hold pending the PALS response.
    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 27th Feb 17, 8:22 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    kcking43
    Visited my wife again on Saturday evening at 19:00 and made the point of ensuring that I got a permit. However some interesting conversations ensued as follows:

    I spoke politely but assertively with an enforcement officer who was actively ticketing another poor soul in the bay next to me. He stated clearly that a permit was necessary 24/7 and that if there was no one on reception to issue one it could be obtained from the staff on the medical ward.

    Spoke to the lady on reception who was not aware she had to issue parking permits nor the process to be followed. I had to talk her through the process.

    Once on the ward I asked the staff if they could issue a permit as the enforcement officer had stated. They were quite certain they did not hold any parking permits and had no process to issue them.

    Whilst there I also took photographs of some of the poor signage including one that directly contradicts what the staff on the ward told me, and another on entry to the car park which directs "Permit Holders see signs in car park". When first encountering this sign most drivers will not be a permit holder!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 27th Feb 17, 8:25 PM
    • 16,110 Posts
    • 20,176 Thanks
    Redx
    just goes to show the incompetence of the trust in this matter
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 6th Mar 17, 8:25 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    kcking43
    Finally got a positive step change on this matter. Eventually the PALS lady called back (apparently my request for support from my wife's consultant has paid off). She was very apologetic about me even having received a ticket and certainly that my appeal to Un-Ethical Parking Management has not been successful. She has a senior contact in EPM who should rescind the ticket.

    Interestingly when I pointed out to her the multiplicity of different processes and levels of understanding across trust staff, coupled with the very poor signage she has offered to take all these concerns up with the trust at a key meeting tomorrow.

    I should get a response in writing from her and EPM shortly.

    Thanks for all the help.

    POPLA letter still being held in reserve, just in case.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Mar 17, 12:31 AM
    • 50,736 Posts
    • 64,145 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done you. Finding the right person to complain to is key.

    She has a senior contact in EPM who should rescind the ticket.
    Must admit I didn't know there was anybody who could be described as 'Senior' at Ethical, unless she meant 'elderly'...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 7th Mar 17, 8:17 AM
    • 14,980 Posts
    • 23,533 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Finally got a positive step change on this matter. Eventually the PALS lady called back (apparently my request for support from my wife's consultant has paid off). She was very apologetic about me even having received a ticket and certainly that my appeal to Un-Ethical Parking Management has not been successful. She has a senior contact in EPM who should rescind the ticket.

    Interestingly when I pointed out to her the multiplicity of different processes and levels of understanding across trust staff, coupled with the very poor signage she has offered to take all these concerns up with the trust at a key meeting tomorrow.

    I should get a response in writing from her and EPM shortly.

    Thanks for all the help.

    POPLA letter still being held in reserve, just in case.
    Originally posted by kcking43
    Just reading this post highlights the financial drain on the NHS budget - PALS intervention, a consultant having to get involved, and an agenda item on a key meeting. All consuming health service resources - the hidden cost of having a PPC to ravage their patients and visitors - scandalous.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • kcking43
    • By kcking43 16th Mar 17, 5:30 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    kcking43
    Hooray! Had a brief phone call from a lady at hospital PALS Yesterday to inform me that my parking fine had been voided. I shall now await paper confirmation.

    In addition I have received an email from the director of estates services from the Sussex partnership NHS trust. As a result of my complaint placed upon the hospital review public forum they have revisited the rules around parking and are now going to restrict the need for a permit to office hours, 9 AM to 5 PM. A moral victory one feels.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Mar 17, 6:36 PM
    • 14,980 Posts
    • 23,533 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done, persistence paying off for you. You really need it in writing from Ethical, but they don't appear often enough on here to know their MO (unlike ParkingEye who appear here regularly and we know they are generally 'good' in confirming cancellation in writing).

    One thing for sure, if Ethical (or their debt collectors) continue to bother you, then it's another major complaint to the great and the good of the Trust.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Mar 17, 8:03 PM
    • 50,736 Posts
    • 64,145 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hooray! Had a brief phone call from a lady at hospital PALS Yesterday to inform me that my parking fine had been voided. I shall now await paper confirmation.

    In addition I have received an email from the director of estates services from the Sussex partnership NHS trust. As a result of my complaint placed upon the hospital review public forum they have revisited the rules around parking and are now going to restrict the need for a permit to office hours, 9 AM to 5 PM. A moral victory one feels.
    Originally posted by kcking43
    Well done!

    Is the Hospital in East or West Sussex? Which site, if you want to say (I am from Sussex). And can you tell us the email and/or name of the director of estates services from the Sussex Partnership NHS Trust, so other newbies can follow suit?

    The NHS Trust should not even be using these ex-clampers:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-car-parking-management-htm-07-03

    Send him those links, when the PCN is confirmed as cancelled. Ask why they have disregarded the Government principles (stated clearly from 2013) and then updated/re-circulated to all NHS Trusts by the Dept for Health, in a memorandum in 2015.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 16-03-2017 at 8:09 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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