Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • serenaly
    • By serenaly 21st Feb 17, 4:49 PM
    • 64Posts
    • 314Thanks
    serenaly
    Pip assessment
    • #1
    • 21st Feb 17, 4:49 PM
    Pip assessment 21st Feb 17 at 4:49 PM
    Well I received my face to face assessment appointment which was very conveniently 35 miles away from my house!!
    I suffer from PTSD, severe anxiety and depression and do not own a car or drive, there is no way that I could make a journey of that length on public transport or cab with a stranger. However I phoned the number and they were very good and arranged a new appointment that was around the corner from me. Which begs the question why on earth would you try and send people 36 miles away for their appointment?
Page 2
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 25th Feb 17, 11:18 AM
    • 4,371 Posts
    • 5,206 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    But you can work and claim PIP depending on the disability.

    Disabeld people also travel for holidays and day to day life.

    Are you saying all disabled people should state they can't travel?

    Also only telling them about your bad days is fraud.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    One of the questions frequentl asked at the assessment is "have you been on holiday in the last two or three years". If you say "yes" they will then ask where.

    You will then find remarks in the reports such as "was able to sit for 2 hours on a plane, in a car, on a train" was able to plan a holiday and as such can manage household bills and plan a journey.

    God forbid if you tell them you drive as this is the carp that then comes out where you score 0 points and then have the cheek to appeal.

    http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10229/

    If you think they are there to take a sensible approach to how disabled people live their lives in reality you are wrong. If you apply for PIP always keep it in mind that to get it you can do no more than breathe and hold a square of toilet tissue. Even then if you retrieve a hanky from your pocket in the assessment they note that and say you can wash unaided.
    Last edited by A Flock Of Sheep; 25-02-2017 at 11:21 AM.
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 25th Feb 17, 4:12 PM
    • 793 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    tomtom256
    One of the questions frequentl asked at the assessment is "have you been on holiday in the last two or three years". If you say "yes" they will then ask where.

    You will then find remarks in the reports such as "was able to sit for 2 hours on a plane, in a car, on a train" was able to plan a holiday and as such can manage household bills and plan a journey.

    God forbid if you tell them you drive as this is the carp that then comes out where you score 0 points and then have the cheek to appeal.

    http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10229/

    If you think they are there to take a sensible approach to how disabled people live their lives in reality you are wrong. If you apply for PIP always keep it in mind that to get it you can do no more than breathe and hold a square of toilet tissue. Even then if you retrieve a hanky from your pocket in the assessment they note that and say you can wash unaided.
    Originally posted by A Flock Of Sheep
    No I appreciate that, but telling people to outright state the worst and that they don't travel isn't the best advice to give.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 25th Feb 17, 7:40 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I'm surprised you didn't know this as you "claim" to know so much about PIP and assessments.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    How on earth can you say that. This is my first time being involved with PIP. I am being transferred over to PIP from DLA.
    Now if you were to ask what do I know about DLA, that is another matter. I have had more s**t thrown at me than most would see in a lifetime by the DWP on that particular subject.

    No I did not know that I could change the venue and no I did not know that I can ask for a home assessment. Those things never really cropped up with DLA.

    And I still don't know why he put in the assessment box that I want an assessment at the centre. All he said was that I will require a face to face assessment at one of the centres - what help will you require when you arrive?. My answer was "I don't know, it depends on the day and how I am when I get there".

    As a matter of interest I have just ploughed through the ATOS - PIP website and nowhere does it say that I have the option/right of a home visit or that I can change the venue to suit me. It does mention that if a home visit is required it will be offered in line with DWP protocol.

    Home consultations will take place:
     at the claimantís request, if supported by an appropriate health condition or disability, as determined by the assessor, or
     when the claimant provides confirmation through their health professional that the claimant is unable to travel on health grounds, or
     at the assessment providerís discretion for a business reason.
    Last edited by rockingbilly; 25-02-2017 at 7:51 PM.
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 25th Feb 17, 8:05 PM
    • 4,371 Posts
    • 5,206 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    No I appreciate that, but telling people to outright state the worst and that they don't travel isn't the best advice to give.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    I have not told people to do that????

    All I have done is attempted to illustrate how perfectly reasonable, normal everyday things are twisted in order to discredit a claimant.

    It is supposed to be paid to people whether in or out of work or in education and training and I have seen reports contrived by the healthcare "professionals" using work and education as a weapon to discredit a claim.

    "You attend college therefore have no trouble reading" - but they fail to ask if they actually have any assistance and even if a claimant says so the still fail to report it and assume they are making it up.

    I have read some reports and from reading them you would assume PIP is targetted at those in permanent vegetative state, bedridden and being fed via an IV drip.

    Fortunatley, tribunals seem to see it differently.
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 25th Feb 17, 8:21 PM
    • 793 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    tomtom256
    I have not told people to do that????

    All I have done is attempted to illustrate how perfectly reasonable, normal everyday things are twisted in order to discredit a claimant.

    It is supposed to be paid to people whether in or out of work or in education and training and I have seen reports contrived by the healthcare "professionals" using work and education as a weapon to discredit a claim.

    "You attend college therefore have no trouble reading" - but they fail to ask if they actually have any assistance and even if a claimant says so the still fail to report it and assume they are making it up.

    I have read some reports and from reading them you would assume PIP is targetted at those in permanent vegetative state, bedridden and being fed via an IV drip.

    Fortunatley, tribunals seem to see it differently.
    Originally posted by A Flock Of Sheep
    I didn't say you had.

    My initial response was to a different poster and my response to you was explaining my post following your post about it.
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 25th Feb 17, 9:51 PM
    • 4,371 Posts
    • 5,206 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    I didn't say you had.

    My initial response was to a different poster and my response to you was explaining my post following your post about it.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    I see.

    Of course if a claimant lies for example and denies they drive when they do then that of course is fraud. I am not sure what it is called if the assessor puts down something that isn't true - which lots of people are saying is going on. Is that fraud too?
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 26th Feb 17, 12:04 AM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I see.

    Of course if a claimant lies for example and denies they drive when they do then that of course is fraud. I am not sure what it is called if the assessor puts down something that isn't true - which lots of people are saying is going on. Is that fraud too?
    Originally posted by A Flock Of Sheep
    The results of one assessment I had in the distant past which was carried out by a doctor suggested that there was nothing wrong with me physically or mentally that could only be explained away by my imagination!
    The DWP agreed, yet the Tribunal at the time didn't especially when I presented the court with evidence from many eminent medics who specialised in my conditions. And suffice it to say that following the favourable decision I wrote a letter to the DWP asking for their comments and that maybe an apology was called for - never did get any reply. However some months later after finding my DLA award was not being paid I received a letter telling me that I was to have a visit from one of their officers to establish the validity of my DLA claim. It was a nurse that called on behalf of the DWP. She went through my medical and mental health problems, had a look at my repeat prescription and asked a few questions about the difficulties I had. When she had finished I asked the obvious question as to why have you called on me. All she would say was that it was a referral from the DLA unit and she didn't know anymore than that. I never heard anything further for another year.
    Last edited by rockingbilly; 26-02-2017 at 12:09 AM.
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 26th Feb 17, 8:41 AM
    • 793 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    tomtom256
    I see.

    Of course if a claimant lies for example and denies they drive when they do then that of course is fraud. I am not sure what it is called if the assessor puts down something that isn't true - which lots of people are saying is going on. Is that fraud too?
    Originally posted by A Flock Of Sheep
    Potentially it is, but not in the actual legal meaning.

    It's gross misconduct in my opinion though.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 26th Feb 17, 5:24 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Potentially it is, but not in the actual legal meaning.

    It's gross misconduct in my opinion though.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    It is neither

    The assessors report is nothing more than their opinion based on what they heard and saw.
    You could well have twelve assessors give an opinion of one person and all will be different.
    You certainly could not say that the assessor is guilty of gross misconduct, at worst they may require more training.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 26th Feb 17, 6:22 PM
    • 9,634 Posts
    • 17,753 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    It is neither

    The assessors report is nothing more than their opinion based on what they heard and saw.
    You could well have twelve assessors give an opinion of one person and all will be different.
    You certainly could not say that the assessor is guilty of gross misconduct, at worst they may require more training.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    But we aren't as such talking about opinions like 'they appeared tired' or 'coped well with the interview'... but facts. If in extreme case for example a HCP states in report that the claimant attended the assessment alone yet in reality sat next to their husband throughout... that can only really be interpreted as either an error in fact recording (such as in my report my wife's name was wrongly given.. it is definitely incorrect but the likelihood due to false assumption or oversight rather than deliberate intent) or a deliberately manufactured falsity. Also in my assessment was admitted (at the start under pressure) the anticipated fact that procedure had not been correctly followed in reading the evidence provided before seeing me (the excuse was there was a lot of it!). It is possible that some false facts are deliberately recorded in order to financially gain.. that would sound like fraud to me. But gross misconduct I would imagine could take many forms.. probably something more serious than failing to follow due process.
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 26-02-2017 at 6:31 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 26th Feb 17, 8:05 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Also in my assessment was admitted (at the start under pressure) the anticipated fact that procedure had not been correctly followed in reading the evidence provided before seeing me (the excuse was there was a lot of it!).
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    That is par for the course I'm afraid.
    I have never had an assessment for DLA or ESA where the actual claim form had been studied beforehand. There were quite a few where it did not appear on the file. Evidence? It is extremely rare for the assessor to have the time or inclination to read any of it even if it is in the file.
    The explanation you were given is normal. You have just got to accept that the assessor is about as in the dark about you as you are of them. Hence the reason for the assessment.
    • tomtom256
    • By tomtom256 27th Feb 17, 8:23 AM
    • 793 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    tomtom256
    It is neither

    The assessors report is nothing more than their opinion based on what they heard and saw.
    You could well have twelve assessors give an opinion of one person and all will be different.
    You certainly could not say that the assessor is guilty of gross misconduct, at worst they may require more training.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    I am not talking of the wording of their opinion, but when then actually change or write something completely different to what has been said. i.e. takes 3 x whatever tablet a day to takes no medication or whatever people have put on the forum about what has been changed or written that wasn't stated.

    I do know its based on their opinion and training, however that is not what was mentioned.
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 27th Feb 17, 12:12 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I am not talking of the wording of their opinion, but when then actually change or write something completely different to what has been said. i.e. takes 3 x whatever tablet a day to takes no medication or whatever people have put on the forum about what has been changed or written that wasn't stated.

    I do know its based on their opinion and training, however that is not what was mentioned.
    Originally posted by tomtom256
    Maybe the assessor was hard of hearing? And that it is common for them to have never seen the actual claim form ESA50 or PIP2?
    • lollipopsarah
    • By lollipopsarah 27th Feb 17, 2:18 PM
    • 1,276 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    lollipopsarah
    I have been told by a disabled friend that if you say anything about having a good day (when you can cope better) they will give you less points.
    This lovely lady had DLA stopped before xmas because she updated them about her not being able to work, and she is still waiting.The Macmillan Trust have been much more helpfull thankfully.
    xx
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 27th Feb 17, 3:07 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    I have been told by a disabled friend that if you say anything about having a good day (when you can cope better) they will give you less points.
    This lovely lady had DLA stopped before xmas because she updated them about her not being able to work, and she is still waiting.The Macmillan Trust have been much more helpfull thankfully.
    xx
    Originally posted by lollipopsarah
    Very few disabled people don't know what a better day is. To state that every day is the worst possible day it could be is more often than not plainly wrong. Yet you see people telling others that they must only describe their worst day when dealing with the DWP.
    That by itself would make the DWP believe that you never have a better day.

    You should describe your worst day, but also those days when things seem to be a little better.
    As an example if you were having a better day and had a DWP assessment for say PIP, how would you describe your current day to the assessor?

    You have to be totally honest with them in describing all of your days and how some are worse/better than others.
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 27th Feb 17, 7:13 PM
    • 4,371 Posts
    • 5,206 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    Very few disabled people don't know what a better day is. To state that every day is the worst possible day it could be is more often than not plainly wrong. Yet you see people telling others that they must only describe their worst day when dealing with the DWP.
    That by itself would make the DWP believe that you never have a better day.

    You should describe your worst day, but also those days when things seem to be a little better.
    As an example if you were having a better day and had a DWP assessment for say PIP, how would you describe your current day to the assessor?

    You have to be totally honest with them in describing all of your days and how some are worse/better than others.
    Originally posted by rockingbilly
    A better day for someone with anxiety would be not feeling the affects of the condition. However it's often triggered by an external reason. Trying to avoid the external triggers so a "better" day is achieved is debilitating and isolating in its own right. So is it really a "better day"? A better day to me is where the person if symptom free and can enjoy all the pleasures others do without fear of attacks or illness. Which isn't realistic.

    So if I was with someone at a PIP assessment being asked about "good days and bad days" I would explain it like that but use the words "terrible days" and "bad days".

    What is a better day to a blind person? The fact that they received a bill in Braille as opposed to text so they could understand it?
    Last edited by A Flock Of Sheep; 27-02-2017 at 9:42 PM.
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 28th Feb 17, 11:09 AM
    • 9,634 Posts
    • 17,753 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    For mental health problems particularly I think the concept of good and bad days is a little alien.. especially in the context of what these benefits assess or make payment towards. As example... if I sleep 24 hours through a day (suffice for odd interruption of waking and have done it many times without wife support) I suffer absolutely as good as nil disability or symptoms of mental illness. For all intents and purposes I'm normal... I don't suffer depression, I don't suffer anxiety, I don't suffer personality disorders... I do suffer from bizarre dreams and nightmares... but I presume that is quite normal...lol... and it certainly doesn't cause distress. (To an outsider that might seem like a bad day.. not getting up at all). On the other hand if you stuck me in a marketplace for 24 hours I dare say I'd be severely disabled and having a 'bad day'..lol... yet to outsider they may say I'm having a better day.. at least I'm out. So my view and approach is to consider myself as a normal person in terms of expectations... which means showering once a day... shopping a couple of times a week.. going to the park a couple times a week... taking medication once a day (if relevant)etc etc etc... and then imagining what I can do, what I won't do, what I won't be able to do, what I can do with help and what help. For example I won't go shopping at all outdoors... I may be able to go to the park once a month with significant help..etc... I'd forget or overlook taking my medication a couple of days a week etc etc... just examples. I think some of the terminology used with some of these benefits that seems engrained.. is just nonsensical or odd.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • serenaly
    • By serenaly 10th Mar 17, 4:48 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 314 Thanks
    serenaly
    Well, just an update had my assessment yesterday after the first appointment was cancelled by ATOS. It was extremely stressful and I ended out breaking my elastic band comforter! My husband was trying to frantically tie it back together whilst the assessor kindly rang through to reception to ask for a replacement. They didn't have one! In the end I had got into such a state that she directed all the questions to my husband apart from at the last point, when she started to ask me mental maths questions, I had to use my fingers and got so frustrated I started banging my head with my fist just to jar some brain power! She seemed sympathetic enough and opened a window, offered me tissues etc. However, her final sentence was "I want to wish you luck with your application" made me think erm I guess PTSD, GAD, Depression and eating disorder is not enough then. I might be wrong though!
    • Muttleythefrog
    • By Muttleythefrog 10th Mar 17, 5:03 PM
    • 9,634 Posts
    • 17,753 Thanks
    Muttleythefrog
    Well, just an update had my assessment yesterday after the first appointment was cancelled by ATOS. It was extremely stressful and I ended out breaking my elastic band comforter! My husband was trying to frantically tie it back together whilst the assessor kindly rang through to reception to ask for a replacement. They didn't have one! In the end I had got into such a state that she directed all the questions to my husband apart from at the last point, when she started to ask me mental maths questions, I had to use my fingers and got so frustrated I started banging my head with my fist just to jar some brain power! She seemed sympathetic enough and opened a window, offered me tissues etc. However, her final sentence was "I want to wish you luck with your application" made me think erm I guess PTSD, GAD, Depression and eating disorder is not enough then. I might be wrong though!
    Originally posted by serenaly
    Interesting.... that they ended up directing questions mainly to your partner. It's Friday today.. so I would advise on Monday calling the number at top of DWP PIP letter and asking for a copy of the PA4 consultant report. That will be invaluable in determining what decision is likely coming down the line as there's high chance DWP will as good as rubber stamp the descriptors selected by the person who conducted this assessment. I expect you could have that document in a week. Her parting words could be interpreted many ways so I wouldn't read too much into them. Good luck!
    Last edited by Muttleythefrog; 10-03-2017 at 5:06 PM.
    "Do not attribute to conspiracy what can adequately be explained by incompetence" - rogerblack
    • rockingbilly
    • By rockingbilly 10th Mar 17, 6:06 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    rockingbilly
    Interesting.... that they ended up directing questions mainly to your partner. It's Friday today.. so I would advise on Monday calling the number at top of DWP PIP letter and asking for a copy of the PA4 consultant report. That will be invaluable in determining what decision is likely coming down the line as there's high chance DWP will as good as rubber stamp the descriptors selected by the person who conducted this assessment. I expect you could have that document in a week. Her parting words could be interpreted many ways so I wouldn't read too much into them. Good luck!
    Originally posted by Muttleythefrog
    I didn't think that they had the right to ask someone other than the claimant?
    I was told when I asked ATOS before one of my ESA assessments that someone can come with you but will not be allowed to participate in the assessment. Hence why my wife always sat outside in the waiting area.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,039Posts Today

5,886Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • The strange thing with a 4yr old is having to play & smile while inside feeling sick for those in trauma in my birth town #Manchester

  • Just a quick ta-ta for now. I'm taking the week off for family time with mini and Mrs MSE. So I won't be here much. Back after the bank hol

  • Ugh another one trying it! Beware https://t.co/Ab9fCRA76F

  • Follow Martin