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  • FIRST POST
    • Madman1
    • By Madman1 20th Feb 17, 11:53 PM
    • 6Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Madman1
    Birmingham airport APCOA rejected appeal
    • #1
    • 20th Feb 17, 11:53 PM
    Birmingham airport APCOA rejected appeal 20th Feb 17 at 11:53 PM
    Hi all,

    I need some advice/ help please,

    My car was stopped at a pedestrian crossing at Birmingham airport where it was photographed with a man at the back door with the car stopped for no more than 8 seconds. It was apparently a private road? I have visited Birmingham airport and even looking for the signs they are hard to read without stopping. The road is a road that drives past the airport and some of the hotels a red route according to APCOA,

    My appeal to APCOA for the PCN was made as the registered keeper and based around the following...

    REASONS FOR APPEAL

    1. Not A Genuine Pre-Estimate Of Loss
    2. Notice To The Keeper Not Pofa 2012 Compliant – No Keeper Liability
    3. Airport Land Is Not ‘Relevant Land’
    4. Non-Compliant Signage
    5. No Legal Standing Or Authority

    They rejected responding with the below

    Thank you for your letter of appeal received */*/20 against the Parking Charge Notice issued by us to you on */*/20. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you, we must advise your appeal has been unsuccessful on this occasion.
    Your vehicle was observed parked on a red route; red routes are in operation around the airport site in order to maintain the safety of our passengers, visitors and staff. Drivers are prohibited to stop, unload or park on the red routes or zig zag lines, which are clearly marked around the airport roads via signage and double red road markings. A vehicle monitoring and enforcement operation is in place, with an enforcement charge of £100. Please note nobody is allowed to enter/exit the vehicle in any circumstance on the airport roads or red route. As per the images below your vehicle would have had to pass a no stopping at any time sign, there are over 20 signs around the Birmingham International Airport advising drivers that this is a no stopping area.

    All restricted areas are signposted and clearly state that no stopping is allowed at any time or entry unless authorized by Birmingham International Airport or any other authorized bodies. Restricted areas are all monitored by CCTV and number plate recognition is in operation. Anyone in contravention of this restriction will be liable for a Parking Charge Notice of up to £100.00.

    In response to your comment made in your letter, please note notices only need to be issued within 14 days if the notice issued mentions “under Protection of Freedoms Act”. According to British Parking Association (BPA) guidelines, the maximum permitted time to notify the registered keeper is no more than 28 days after receiving keeper data from DVLA which takes no more than 35 days.
    Once we receive the registered keeper information we issue a notice to the customer, and no more than six months after the unauthorized parking event. It is our understanding that as we have not referred to this act in our documentation, we are able to work in accordance with the BPA code of practise (June 2013) which states that we have up to 28 days to deliver a postal PCN from the date of contravention.
    Please note as the registered keeper of this vehicle, you are liable for this ticket, unless details of the driver are provided.
    If the registered keeper fails to provide us with the driver’s details then the registered keeper
    therefore maintains liability for the issue of this notice as the Airport is covered by Bye-laws.
    Bye-laws are conditions set in a Magistrates Court. It is a criminal offence to provide inaccurate information, or to withhold information where required.
    As mentioned above, APCOA have not claimed to, and do not work, issue or seek payment under POFA as this land is covered by Bye-laws.
    All the enforcement is carried out according to British parking association (BPA) guidelines and APCOA being an approved operator of BPA is authorized to manage and enforce the property on behalf of Birmingham International Airport. Any vehicles in contravention of the T&C of the Birmingham International Airport are sent out to DVLA for registered owner’s information under BPA guidelines. Recently, the Court of Appeal unanimously dismissed the case of Beavis vs. Parking Eye [2015]. This case considered two key arguments: (a) whether a Parking Charge for contravention of the parking conditions is unenforceable at common law because it is a penalty; and (b) whether it is unfair and therefore unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.
    The judges ruled that the Parking Charge Notice that Mr Beavis had received from Parking Eye for overstaying a two-hour limit "is not extravagant or unconscionable". They added that the terms and conditions of a car park should “provide a disincentive to drivers which will make them tend to comply”, and that this is afforded by the Parking Charge Notice of £85.00. The Judges went on to say that the charge was justifiable by “a combination of factors, social as well as commercial”.
    The guidelines issued by the British Parking Association make clear that they ‘would not expect this amount to be more than £100.” We therefore believe that this parking charge is fair and reasonable at £100 reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days. This sum has been approved and agreed by the landowner.
    Therefore, we do not agree that claiming that the Parking Charge Notice is not a genuine preestimate of loss is a suitable premise on which to base appeals.
    Notices on private land are issued in accordance to British Parking Association (BPA) guidelines and APCOA being an approved operator of BPA is authorised to issue notices on behalf of Birmingham International Airport.

    Proof of this landowner authority is provided below:

    Parking control and enforcement contract....

    As your vehicle was parked in contravention of the terms and conditions of the car park we are satisfied that the notice was correctly issued in accordance with the BPA code of practice, and are therefore not able to waiver the charge on this occasion.
    Therefore you now have a number of options:
    1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted price of £50.00 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will increase to £100.00.
    You can pay by the following methods;
    By Post Send a cheque or postal order crossed and made payable to APCOA
    Parking (UK) Ltd to:
    APCOA PARKING, PO BOX 222,
    LOWTON WAY, HELLABY
    SHEFFIELD
    S98 1NX
    By Phone 0345 301 1151
    2. You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure, to make an appeal to
    POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service, within 28 days of this letter by completing the
    online appeal form at .popla.co. quoting the verification reference number. 0000000 Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case, the
    Parking Charge Notice will be considered at the full amount of £100.00 If you require a hard copy of the POPLA form please contact our customer service centre on 0345 301 1151 where one of our customer services agents will be happy to assist you.
    By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services ( ombudsmanservices.) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.’
    3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt
    recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
    Yours Faithfully
    APCOA Appeals Department

    Can I have your thoughts as to my next actions and any response? Popla?

    I look forwards to your swift feedback,

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Madman1; 21-02-2017 at 8:20 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 21st Feb 17, 7:12 AM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,571 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 21st Feb 17, 7:12 AM
    • #2
    • 21st Feb 17, 7:12 AM
    you used the wrong appeal, that is an old popla appeal above

    you should have used the blue text template appeal from the NEWBIES sticky thread, especially as not a gpeol is no longer a valid argument and airports are subject to byelaws anyway

    so I assume you now have a popla code ? if so why ask ? its OBVIOUS that popla is your next step, although APCOA will fold as soon as they see your better looking , newer , POPLA appeal (not the one you sent to APCOA)

    ASK MADHATTER TO PUT A COPY OF HIS UP

    and EDIT the last post to remove the POPLA number and any other personal details, and about who the driver may have been

    never put private info on public forums like this one , parking companies and lawyers read these forums and take screenshots
    find a recent BHX popla appeal, adapt it for your own use, do not mention or give away who the driver was , then when its accurate submit it as a pdf under OTHER on the popla website , attaching it

    APCOA will fold within days as soon as they see it, because popla are ruling in favour of motorists on byelaws appeals
    Last edited by Redx; 21-02-2017 at 7:15 AM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 21st Feb 17, 8:28 AM
    • 2,407 Posts
    • 3,627 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #3
    • 21st Feb 17, 8:28 AM
    • #3
    • 21st Feb 17, 8:28 AM
    That reply to you is a complete mess, it rambles on quoting one thing and then blowing that argument with another disclaimer.

    As Redex says they will fold after a proper POPLA appeal APCOA are scammers but none too bright.
    To quote the words of the great Count Arthur Strong "You Couldn't make it up"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Feb 17, 12:09 AM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 22nd Feb 17, 12:09 AM
    • #4
    • 22nd Feb 17, 12:09 AM
    All you need to do is search the forum for 'APCOA POPLA Airport' and copy a recent one (NOT an old one rambling on about 'no genuine pre-estimate of loss'). Show us your draft first. There are loads here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Madman1
    • By Madman1 24th Feb 17, 11:16 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Madman1
    • #5
    • 24th Feb 17, 11:16 AM
    POPLA appeal
    • #5
    • 24th Feb 17, 11:16 AM
    Good morning all,

    Will re-post this soon...
    Last edited by Madman1; 02-03-2017 at 9:02 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Feb 17, 12:32 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 24th Feb 17, 12:32 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Feb 17, 12:32 PM
    Sorry its long, happy to reduce if you think would be better,
    Nope that is deliberate because it makes APCOA fold!

    That looks fine. We predict a win.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 24th Feb 17, 1:58 PM
    • 767 Posts
    • 910 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    • #7
    • 24th Feb 17, 1:58 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Feb 17, 1:58 PM
    I suspect that no evidence will be sent by ApCOA , this statement was aimed at them and indigi regarding railways , but would still apply to airports


    http://ispa.co.uk/hs-view/Minutes%20-%20IS...l%20version.pdf

    page 4

    2. POPLA and appeal process for Railway Land
    There is a meeting on 27th January 2017 to discuss this issues. John Gallagher decided to
    make a decision on the outstanding cases as they could not stay adjourned, he concluded
    that he would allow them all. He has invited the Operators to withdraw them and will allow
    the rest. He is meeting with with the DVLA, DCLG and the Railway Operators on the 27
    January 2017 to agree the process including the appeals.
    If you park in a railway car park it will be a criminal case and they will allow clamping, which
    does not seem good practice.
    One possibility is the DVLA to say that operators can continue to use POPLA but this means all
    appeals will be dismissed. Currently they are bound by the decision where the appellant is
    not. The alternative will be to take POPLA out of the equation and then it is pursued through
    the criminal system
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • Madman1
    • By Madman1 26th Feb 17, 5:58 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Madman1
    • #8
    • 26th Feb 17, 5:58 PM
    • #8
    • 26th Feb 17, 5:58 PM
    Thanks, will submit appeal later today.
    • Madman1
    • By Madman1 11th Mar 17, 9:53 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Madman1
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 9:53 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Mar 17, 9:53 AM
    Well as expected, I received a response from POPLA today confirming that APCOA did not wish to contest the appeal and that our Appeal was successful.

    Thanks everyone... Really appreciate the help. Thanks Madhatter for your help with my appeal letter by sharing your successful appeal.

    Thanks again guys x
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Mar 17, 11:52 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As predicted, APCOA gave up! Well done!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Theseeker
    • By Theseeker 10th Jun 17, 8:44 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Theseeker
    Cant find new POPLA appeal template - please HELP
    Hello everyone, I am in the same situation and new to the forum, could someone please post the link to the new appeal blue text template from the NEWBIES sticky thread. I don't seem to be able to find it and am getting confused reading the old threads. I would greatly appreciate your help :-)
    • Redx
    • By Redx 10th Jun 17, 8:51 PM
    • 15,486 Posts
    • 19,571 Thanks
    Redx
    go to the top of this forum , second thread down is the NEWBIES sticky thread, read post #1 of that thread
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jun 17, 8:55 PM
    • 14,499 Posts
    • 22,793 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Near the top of the first page (one back from this one) where the forum threads are listed - as all stickies are on most forums.

    Then it's post #1 (which is quite lengthy) of the sticky, scroll down to the blue text version - if the PPC is a BPA operator.

    Any more advice required, please start a new thread of your own (new thread button also on the first page).

    By the way - no need for green text - makes it difficult to read compared to normal black text - and regulars have so much to read (and answer) every day of the year!
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Theseeker
    • By Theseeker 10th Jun 17, 9:48 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Theseeker
    Thank you for your help and I am sorry for the green text - have changed my settings now. Just to make sure is this the newbies sticky thread that you recommended?
    **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou!
    some info is from 2013 so I am a bit confused....
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Jun 17, 9:55 PM
    • 14,499 Posts
    • 22,793 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Thank you for your help and I am sorry for the green text - have changed my settings now. Just to make sure is this the newbies sticky thread that you recommended?
    **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou!
    some info is from 2013 so I am a bit confused....
    Originally posted by Theseeker
    That's the one.

    The sticky thread was created in 2013 to save us having to type out the extremely lengthy and detailed advice, literally every few minutes. There are very regular updates as the law changes, legal precedents are set or new tactics work. You can see how recent these are by checking the 'Edit' date at the foot of each post (section).

    I can categorically assure you that the sticky has been written and edited by the country's foremost expert on private parking matters - and is absolutely bang up to date.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 10-06-2017 at 9:58 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Theseeker
    • By Theseeker 10th Jun 17, 10:07 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Theseeker
    Thank you so much, I am really grateful for your help :-)
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Jun 17, 10:12 PM
    • 49,944 Posts
    • 63,352 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    some info is from 2013 so I am a bit confused....
    And to avoid people saying this, the newbies thread tells you, at the start:

    WELCOME!

    START YOUR OWN NEW THREAD IF YOU FEEL YOU STILL NEED TO ASK FOR ADVICE AFTER READING THE RELEVANT POSTS HERE BUT DON'T TRY TO SKIM-READ THIS ON A PHONE, PLEASE!

    THIS THREAD TELLS YOU HOW TO COMPLAIN & APPEAL.

    IF YOU WERE WONDERING: ''IS THIS UP TO DATE AS THIS THREAD IS FROM 2013?''

    ...YES, IT IS. SEE THE DATE LAST EDITED IN 2017 AS SHOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY POST...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Theseeker
    • By Theseeker 10th Jun 17, 11:21 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Theseeker
    Apologies, I have spent too many hours researching the topic, looks like my eyes ...and my brain are no longer working... I will slow down and read carefully.
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