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  • FIRST POST
    • tea_queen
    • By tea_queen 19th Feb 17, 1:56 PM
    • 10Posts
    • 7Thanks
    tea_queen
    Take action or pay up?
    • #1
    • 19th Feb 17, 1:56 PM
    Take action or pay up? 19th Feb 17 at 1:56 PM
    Hi, I'm new to this forum but I have read quite a few of the posts, including the newbie ones. I'm hoping you can advise me regarding the next steps I should take regarding a Letter Before Claim received from Gladstones Solicitors Friday.

    This is in relation to a PCN notice received on 13th August 2015 and was then appealed to the issuer (Euro Parking Services) first through their online appeals (where they were offered a reasonable price to pay for time car was there) and then numerous letters for several months until around October 2015, with the initial request for £60, then £100 because the PCN wasn't paid within the initial timeframe given.

    I then received another letter from them in October 2016 (with no reference to the correspondence the previous year) asking for the £100 as it was still unpaid. Again this letter was responded to and nothing further received.

    I have now received the letter from Gladstones Solicitors requesting £160 within 14 days of the letter (received 7 days in from the date on the letter) or they've been instructed to start proceedings against me without further notice.

    I am now at the point where I'm fed up of returning home worried about the letters I've received, I don't want to pay this extortionate fee but reading the posts on here, the appeals process can be a long one.

    I realise I haven't given many particulars regarding the parking ticket scenario - overview - after PCN received, I reviewed the signage in the car park, there was a sign on the side of a building to the side of car park entrance - you'd only see this as driving in (not leaving as you'd have your back to it) and if you were looking for it with good eyesight due to text size) saying car park opening times for customers of the shop (PCN received after 'closing'), then within the car park itself some signage around the perimeter, not lit up &/or very high up, to the point at which trying to take a photo of the sign, a taller friend still couldn't get a good photo and had to use a flash on the camera in order to see it (due to it being dark after 4pm). It may be worth noting the car park did not offer any way to buy tickets, had previously been a free car park at any time (not just during shop opening hours), and in the last year the shop has changed hands and is once again a free car park.

    I guess my first questions are, are they allowed to file legal claims so long after the initial PCN, and if I do appeal what is the most likely outcome in terms of winning and expense to myself?

    Thanks in advance.
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Mar 17, 6:29 PM
    • 44,060 Posts
    • 56,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The letter has enclosed the correspondence sent to me and photographic evidence (in response to me asking for all evidence against me), however they have only actually sent the first two letters from 2015 in response to my appeal, and the three photos of the car. Does this mean this is the only evidence they can bring to a court?
    No it doesn't. They can supply a fuller evidence pack at Witness Statement stage and so can you (e.g. you can go and get fresh photos showing how illegible the terms are and sparse signage).

    We would say respond by email telling them their evidence is woeful, that you require all photos taken and evidence that there was a contravention and evidence as to the terms on the sign.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-03-2017 at 11:12 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tea_queen
    • By tea_queen 12th Mar 17, 11:02 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    tea_queen
    Fantastic, thank you Coupon-mad, I have done that now. I'll be interested if they respond as I was surprised to receive the letter if I'm honest, but considering this last letter said there would be no further correspondence if they do respond they'd be dragging out the process further before putting in the claim.
    I have already started putting together pictorial evidence for myself in preparation (as much as possible given that the signage has been removed at the site), so I will start putting together my written evidence in the next few weeks.

    Thanks again
    • tea_queen
    • By tea_queen 19th Mar 17, 10:39 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    tea_queen
    Update:

    I received an email in response to the one I sent last week, with just the answers to the questions I had asked in the posted letter to Gladstones, which were:

    In order to understand my legal position, I also require the following information:

    1 Is your client's intended action funded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or trespass?
    2 What is the basis of the additional £60 charge?
    3 If it is for legal services, has your client already paid it?
    Answers:

    1. Contractual Charge
    2. After 28 days of the charge being issued £60 is incurred and acts as a nominal contribution to our Client's losses i.e the time and resources spent on the case
    3. Addressed above

    You have a further 7 days from the date of this email to make payment in full in the absence of which a claim will be issued against you without further notice.


    From this response received I do not believe this changes anything as it's pretty much the expected response from them I would have thought? In which case I'm inclined to respond essentially saying go ahead, as I presume anything more detailed will be a waste of my time - would you agree? On the plus side the fact that they're arguing contractual reasons is in line with my arguments against the charge.

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Mar 17, 11:21 PM
    • 44,060 Posts
    • 56,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes. And you can add that they can't recover any sums added to the amount on any Notice to Keeper; the POFA Schedule 4 makes this clear.

    Further, ParkingEye v Beavis helpfully confirmed that the penalty rule is certainly engaged in less complex private parking charge cases and in Beavis £85 was the only sum sought. This was held in the Court of Appeal and Supreme Court as an amount set high enough to more than cover the costs of a fully-automated and generic 'car park enforcement' business model and allow for profit. Therefore is is completely disingenuous to suggest that random sums can be bolted on top of a 'parking charge' taking it over the £100 ceiling and suggesting that this is ''a nominal contribution to losses i.e the time and resources spent on the case''.

    Utter fabrication which CPR 27.14 certainly disallows - a thinly-veiled attempt at double recovery.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • tea_queen
    • By tea_queen 19th Mar 17, 11:50 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    tea_queen
    That's good news thanks Coupon-mad! I've added this into my notes for when I write up the full defense and will look up that case for more details
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 12:18 AM
    • 44,060 Posts
    • 56,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes you need to be familiar with the only parking case to have gone to the Supreme Court, because all PPCs try to jump on that bandwagon despite the fact most cases hugely differ and turn on different facts, less clear signs, etc.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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