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  • FIRST POST
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 17th Feb 17, 8:01 PM
    • 29Posts
    • 19Thanks
    danmc1309
    Civil Enforcement LTD Hospital Fine
    • #1
    • 17th Feb 17, 8:01 PM
    Civil Enforcement LTD Hospital Fine 17th Feb 17 at 8:01 PM
    Hello all,

    First post here after receiving a letter from Civil Enforcement LTD. I apologise if I've placed this in the wrong section or missed some crucial reading but after spending an hour or so reading the forums I'm feeling a little lost and wondered if my situation warranted an appeal.

    I received a letter this week which states date issued 6th Feb 2017, however the PCN issue date is 26/10/16 and I've received no correspondence until this point.

    Thanks in advance


    hxxp://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/Dannymc1309/car%20park%20sign_zpsnjj9pf1t.jpg
    Last edited by danmc1309; 24-02-2017 at 11:35 PM. Reason: photo didn't work
Page 3
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 20th Mar 17, 12:25 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Latest reply

    Dear xxxx
    Thank you for your reply.

    An effective ‘Notice to Keeper’ within the meaning of POFA 2012, must meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Act. In particular, paragraphs 6 (1) (a) and 8 (2), if a Notice to Driver has previously been issued at the time of the parking event.

    We note that you state that the Notice to Keeper does not contain the requirement as outlined in section 8(2)f of POFA which states that the notice: “must warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

    the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;”

    Having reviewed the Notice to Keeper, it can be seen to state: “In England and Wales if after 28 days from the date of this notice this PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name and current address for service of the driver, we may have the right to recover from the registered keeper
    all unpaid amounts due.”

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and we are therefore unable to assist you further with your enquiry.


    Yours Sincerely,

    Thomas Briody
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 7:42 PM
    • 44,100 Posts
    • 56,821 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear Thomas,

    John Gallagher at POPLA has agreed that 'within 28 days from the date of this notice' is not compliant with paragraph 8(2)f. So did the previous POPLA provider (I don't count the Wright Hassall 'conflict of interests' perceived horror show that the BPA 'provided' briefly, as they failed to act as if they were POPLA, contacted operators to fill in gaps in evidence - telling them what was needed - and their woeful decisions were never seen to be independent). London Councils POPLA and the current provider both agree that this wording is not POFA compliant.

    In addition to confirming the 8(2)f failing - as you effectively just have - are you now going to try to tell me that this NTK 'can be seen to state' the other mandatory wording in the rest of paragraph 8 of Schedule 4? Please confirm this is the BPA's formal position, that you are actually trying to tell me from the BPA's official viewpoint, that CEL NTKs are POFA versions and that a debt collector is entitled to say a keeper is liable based on that piece of paper?

    I will be passing this correspondence to the DCLG once you have confirmed the BPA's final position. This is a formal complaint and remains unresolved, each email being copied to the DVLA for their information.

    yours
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 20-03-2017 at 7:50 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 20th Mar 17, 7:57 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Sent. Thanking you for your continued support Coupon-mad, i sense that you might actually be enjoying the thrill of the incompetence by this point
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 10:29 PM
    • 44,100 Posts
    • 56,821 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I like these sort of 'dog with a bone' complaints...I am a woman of a certain middle age who never gives up on a complaint and hates to be fobbed off by rubbish.

    Also, have you seen this thread?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5621226

    I've just suggested in another complaint email to the BPA I just wrote tonight, that people might like to drop in the line: 'please don't skirt around the issue'!

    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 21st Mar 17, 7:45 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 22nd Mar 17, 9:43 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Dear Xxxxx

    Thank you for your reply.

    This Notice to Keeper has been issued utilising POFA (2012) and contains the relevant information as outlined in Schedule 4 (8)2 of POFA.

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and this case has been closed.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Thomas Briody
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 24th Mar 17, 11:32 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Their email replies are getting shorter each time
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Mar 17, 12:34 PM
    • 44,100 Posts
    • 56,821 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear Xxxxx

    Thank you for your reply.

    This Notice to Keeper has been issued utilising POFA (2012) and contains the relevant information as outlined in Schedule 4 (8)2 of POFA.

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and this case has been closed.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Thomas Briody
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    Originally posted by danmc1309
    Thank you for confirming that the BPA do not check that paragraph 8 has been complied with and actually think that a CEL NTK is a POFA one. Even CEL don't think so!

    I will now escalate this complaint to my MP and will be sending details to the Secretary of State for Transport, as a damning indictment of how the BPA has sunk to new depths in misleading consumers.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the breadcrumb trail, top of page: Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking & READ THE 'NEWBIES' FAQS THREAD.
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 24th Mar 17, 2:11 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Sent Coupon-mad

    Judging from the way this has gone I'm guessing this case has become unusual in the fact that it has gone beyond this point?

    Do you have details for who'm is next in line to receive this abuse?

    Thanks again
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