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  • FIRST POST
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 17th Feb 17, 9:01 PM
    • 31Posts
    • 21Thanks
    danmc1309
    Civil Enforcement LTD Hospital Fine
    • #1
    • 17th Feb 17, 9:01 PM
    Civil Enforcement LTD Hospital Fine 17th Feb 17 at 9:01 PM
    Hello all,

    First post here after receiving a letter from Civil Enforcement LTD. I apologise if I've placed this in the wrong section or missed some crucial reading but after spending an hour or so reading the forums I'm feeling a little lost and wondered if my situation warranted an appeal.

    I received a letter this week which states date issued 6th Feb 2017, however the PCN issue date is 26/10/16 and I've received no correspondence until this point.

    Thanks in advance


    hxxp://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/Dannymc1309/car%20park%20sign_zpsnjj9pf1t.jpg
    Last edited by danmc1309; 25-02-2017 at 12:35 AM. Reason: photo didn't work
Page 3
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 20th Mar 17, 1:25 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Latest reply

    Dear xxxx
    Thank you for your reply.

    An effective ‘Notice to Keeper’ within the meaning of POFA 2012, must meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Act. In particular, paragraphs 6 (1) (a) and 8 (2), if a Notice to Driver has previously been issued at the time of the parking event.

    We note that you state that the Notice to Keeper does not contain the requirement as outlined in section 8(2)f of POFA which states that the notice: “must warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and
    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

    the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;”

    Having reviewed the Notice to Keeper, it can be seen to state: “In England and Wales if after 28 days from the date of this notice this PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name and current address for service of the driver, we may have the right to recover from the registered keeper
    all unpaid amounts due.”

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and we are therefore unable to assist you further with your enquiry.


    Yours Sincerely,

    {Text removed by MSE Forum Team}
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 12-04-2017 at 8:40 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 8:42 PM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear {Text removed by MSE Forum Team},

    John Gallagher at POPLA has agreed that 'within 28 days from the date of this notice' is not compliant with paragraph 8(2)f. So did the previous POPLA provider (I don't count the Wright Hassall 'conflict of interests' perceived horror show that the BPA 'provided' briefly, as they failed to act as if they were POPLA, contacted operators to fill in gaps in evidence - telling them what was needed - and their woeful decisions were never seen to be independent). London Councils POPLA and the current provider both agree that this wording is not POFA compliant.

    In addition to confirming the 8(2)f failing - as you effectively just have - are you now going to try to tell me that this NTK 'can be seen to state' the other mandatory wording in the rest of paragraph 8 of Schedule 4? Please confirm this is the BPA's formal position, that you are actually trying to tell me from the BPA's official viewpoint, that CEL NTKs are POFA versions and that a debt collector is entitled to say a keeper is liable based on that piece of paper?

    I will be passing this correspondence to the DCLG once you have confirmed the BPA's final position. This is a formal complaint and remains unresolved, each email being copied to the DVLA for their information.

    yours
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 12-04-2017 at 8:40 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 20th Mar 17, 8:57 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Sent. Thanking you for your continued support Coupon-mad, i sense that you might actually be enjoying the thrill of the incompetence by this point
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 11:29 PM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I like these sort of 'dog with a bone' complaints...I am a woman of a certain middle age who never gives up on a complaint and hates to be fobbed off by rubbish.

    Also, have you seen this thread?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5621226

    I've just suggested in another complaint email to the BPA I just wrote tonight, that people might like to drop in the line: 'please don't skirt around the issue'!

    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 21st Mar 17, 8:45 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 22nd Mar 17, 10:43 AM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Dear Xxxxx

    Thank you for your reply.

    This Notice to Keeper has been issued utilising POFA (2012) and contains the relevant information as outlined in Schedule 4 (8)2 of POFA.

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and this case has been closed.

    Yours Sincerely,

    {Text removed by MSE Forum Team}
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 12-04-2017 at 8:39 AM.
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 24th Mar 17, 12:32 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Their email replies are getting shorter each time
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 24th Mar 17, 1:34 PM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear Xxxxx

    Thank you for your reply.

    This Notice to Keeper has been issued utilising POFA (2012) and contains the relevant information as outlined in Schedule 4 (8)2 of POFA.

    As previously advised, there has not been a breach of the Code in this instance and this case has been closed.

    Yours Sincerely,

    {Text removed by MSE Forum Team}
    AOS Investigations Team
    British Parking Association
    Email: aos@britishparking.co.uk
    Web: www.britishparking.co.uk
    Originally posted by danmc1309
    Thank you for confirming that the BPA do not check that paragraph 8 has been complied with and actually think that a CEL NTK is a POFA one. Even CEL don't think so!

    I will now escalate this complaint to my MP and will be sending details to the Secretary of State for Transport, as a damning indictment of how the BPA has sunk to new depths in misleading consumers.
    Last edited by MSE Andrea; 12-04-2017 at 8:39 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 24th Mar 17, 3:11 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Thank you for confirming that the BPA do not check that paragraph 8 has been complied with and actually think that a CEL NTK is a POFA one. Even CEL don't think so!

    I will now escalate this complaint to my MP and will be sending details to the Secretary of State for Transport, as a damning indictment of how the BPA has sunk to new depths in misleading consumers.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Sent Coupon-mad

    Judging from the way this has gone I'm guessing this case has become unusual in the fact that it has gone beyond this point?

    Do you have details for who'm is next in line to receive this abuse?

    Thanks again
    Last edited by danmc1309; 28-03-2017 at 2:23 PM.
    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 29th Mar 17, 12:35 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    .
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Sorry to bother you again!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 29th Mar 17, 1:02 PM
    • 45,155 Posts
    • 57,827 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It is no longer unusual for the BPA to fob people off, this is the calibre of their top man (until a month ago!):

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/patrick-troy-found-guilty-of-filming-up.html

    You can now complain to your MP and the DCLG (Marcus Jones) and the Under-Secretary of State for transport (Andrew Jones) about this absurd response from the BPA about a PCN that even the parking firm know full well fails dismally to comply with the POFA (Schedule 4) but the BPA continue to protest too much. Also, this ex-clamper firm has sent an image of a blue bonnet but no VRN/registration so haven't even met the bar of showing the vehicle was at the location. You could also throw in that CEL are the company which issues 'revenge claims' when kicked off sites (e.g. they sued dozens of Co-op employees & customers as revenge when the Co-op realised how nasty CEL were and ended the contract).

    Expect a claim from CEL and expect to easily see it off with no hearing, as per loads of others here.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • danmc1309
    • By danmc1309 13th Apr 17, 12:16 PM
    • 31 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    danmc1309
    Its all rather quiet here at the moment! I haven't heard from the debt collectors or CEL since they replied to our original appeal (didn't reply to them just went to BPA instead) and nothing yet as a reply from the email below sent to the suggested parties. Hoping I've written this correctly! This message was added to the whole thread conversation thus far being forwarded underneath.

    "From: xxx
    Sent: 07 April 2017 11:04
    To: marcus.jones.mp@parliament.uk; graham.stringer.mp@parliament.uk; andrew.jones.mp@parliament.uk
    Subject:xxx

    Hello all,

    Please see below (I apologise for the length!) an extended email communication from myself which has arisen as a result of receiving a parking charge. I believe that contrary to replies from the BPA that the PCN in question fails to comply with the POFA (schedule 4). Furthermore, this ex-clamper firm has sent an image of a blue bonnet but no VRN/registration so initially hasn't even met a reasonable bar of showing that the vehicle was at the location in question, in addition to apparently sending correspondence to me as the keeper which I didn't receive. It is further stated by the BPA that the firm doesn't need to state proof of sending (which they could if they have they actually sent) whereas I can't provide proof of something that I'm stating hasn't been received. I feel as though I'm being fobbed off by both firms in question and I don't trust either firm considering the embarrassing situations of until recently BPA top man Patrick Troy "https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3133778/british-parking-association-quits-film-up-skirts-patrick-troy/" and CEL issuing revenge claims after having their contract cancelled by the Co-op after realising the extent of their inability to correctly follow the law. I'm hoping for a further opinion on the subject.

    Kind regards,"
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Apr 17, 1:13 PM
    • 2,046 Posts
    • 1,954 Thanks
    DoaM
    I hope you broke that up before sending it. At the moment it's a wall of text which will probably be directed to the circular file (bin).
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
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