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  • FIRST POST
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 15th Feb 17, 10:20 PM
    • 41Posts
    • 9Thanks
    familyguy321
    Tariff whilst switching suppliers
    • #1
    • 15th Feb 17, 10:20 PM
    Tariff whilst switching suppliers 15th Feb 17 at 10:20 PM
    Hi,

    I would like to clear up some confusion about the switching process as I have been given conflicting information.

    I am currently on the BG collective fix ending on 28th Feb. I have started my switches to separate suppliers for Gas and Elec. Both are due to be completed after 28th Feb (most likely 2nd week of March).

    My question is: what tariff will I be on from BG between 1st March and my new supply date?

    Some people have said BG has to honour my current tariff until I switch, whereas others have said I will be on the standard tariff.

    FG
Page 1
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 15th Feb 17, 11:52 PM
    • 3,069 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    footyguy
    • #2
    • 15th Feb 17, 11:52 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Feb 17, 11:52 PM
    Hi,

    I would like to clear up some confusion about the switching process as I have been given conflicting information.

    I am currently on the BG collective fix ending on 28th Feb. I have started my switches to separate suppliers for Gas and Elec. Both are due to be completed after 28th Feb (most likely 2nd week of March).

    My question is: what tariff will I be on from BG between 1st March and my new supply date?

    Some people have said BG has to honour my current tariff until I switch, whereas others have said I will be on the standard tariff.

    FG
    Originally posted by familyguy321
    What happens if we change your contract or raise prices
    7.2 If we make a change to your contract and that change puts you at a disadvantage, or if we raise your prices, we’ll write to let you know at
    least 30 days before the change or price rise happens. The change or price rise won’t affect you if:
    • ...
    • you arrange for another company to supply your gas and electricity, and the new supplier tells us about this within 20 working days after the change or price rise happened. That company has to begin supplying your gas and electricity reasonably soon after telling us
    ...
    http://www.britishgas.co.uk/aem6/content/dam/britishgas/documents/tariffs/terms/gas-and-electricity-supply-terms-and-conditions.pdf
    • Asghar
    • By Asghar 16th Feb 17, 10:56 AM
    • 65 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    Asghar
    • #3
    • 16th Feb 17, 10:56 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Feb 17, 10:56 AM
    If your switch happens after the 28th Feb then you will revert to the British Gas standard variable tariff till your new supplier takes over.
    • familyguy321
    • By familyguy321 16th Feb 17, 12:28 PM
    • 41 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    familyguy321
    • #4
    • 16th Feb 17, 12:28 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Feb 17, 12:28 PM
    If your switch happens after the 28th Feb then you will revert to the British Gas standard variable tariff till your new supplier takes over.
    Originally posted by Asghar
    Not according to the bit from the BG T&Cs that footyguy quoted:

    The change or price rise won’t affect you if:
    • you arrange for another company to supply your gas and electricity, and the new supplier tells us about this within 20 working days after the change or price rise happened. That company has to begin supplying your gas and electricity reasonably soon after telling us
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 10th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Mar 17, 11:02 AM
    British Gas are charging me standard tariff from 1st March despite the above, because my transfer from the BG collective fix to IRESA while actioned in February didn't take place until after 28th February 2017. I've complained but they won't back down.

    I can see this is against the British Gas terms, assuming that the move from the fixed rate tariff to the standard tariff is deemed as covered by 'if we make a change to your contract and that change puts you at a disadvantage or if we raise your prices'.

    But is it also against the gas supply conditions which say the same charges (i.e the old fixed tariff charges) should apply during the switching period subject to some easily met provisos ?

    https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk/Document

    24.9
    In relation to each Fixed Term Supply Contract, unless the Domestic Customer has entered into a new Fixed Term Supply Contract with the licensee or paragraph 22C.5 of standard condition 22C applies, the licensee must ensure that where paragraph 24.10 applies a Domestic Customer will continue to be subject to the same Charges for the Supply of Gas and the same terms and conditions (but not any Termination Fee) that applied to that Fixed Term Supply Contract until they have changed their supplier.

    24.10 This paragraph applies where one of the following conditions are satisfied:

    (a) no later than 20 Working Days after (but not including) the date on which the fixed term period of a Fixed Term Supply Contract ends, the licensee receives Notice under the Network Code by way of the Relevant Gas Shipper that another Gas Supplier will begin to supply the Domestic Customer’s Domestic Premises within a reasonable period of time; and

    (b) another Gas Supplier begins to supply the Domestic Customer’s Domestic Premises within a reasonable period of time after the date on which the Notice referred to in sub-paragraph 24.10(a) is given; or

    (c) where:

    (i) the conditions in sub-paragraphs 24.10(a) and (b) are met; and
    (ii) the Domestic Customer has paid any Outstanding Charges within 30 Working Days after the Domestic Customer receives Notice that the licensee intends to prevent the Domestic Customer’s Proposed Supplier
    Note also that British Gas confirm in the 'Your tariff ends soon' letter in section 3 on the second page that

    If you decide to switch you'll keep your current prices until you switch to another supplier within 20 working days after your current tariff ends.They'll need to tell us you'd like to switch and it needs to be completed in a reasonable time.
    However British Gas claim that 'current prices' means fixed rate to 28th February and standard tariff charges from 1st March, rather than the current fixed charges that applied when the letter was sent!

    This seems to be deliberate and blatant overcharging of customers to me.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 10-03-2017 at 2:30 PM. Reason: corrected date
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    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 10th Mar 17, 12:36 PM
    • 3,547 Posts
    • 1,898 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:36 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Mar 17, 12:36 PM
    British Gas are charging me standard tariff from 1st March despite the above, because my transfer from the BG collective fix to IRESA while actioned in February didn't take place until after 28th March 2017. I've complained but they won't back down.

    I can see this is against the British Gas terms, assuming that the move from the fixed rate tariff to the standard tariff is deemed as covered by 'if we make a change to your contract and that change puts you at a disadvantage or if we raise your prices'.

    But is it also against the gas supply conditions which say the same charges (i.e the old fixed tariff charges) should apply during the switching period subject to some easily met provisos ?

    https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk/Document
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    Normally, it is corrected in the Final Bill. If not, then complain citing the above SLC.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 10th Mar 17, 1:04 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
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    SnowMan
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 1:04 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Mar 17, 1:04 PM
    Normally, it is corrected in the Final Bill. If not, then complain citing the above SLC.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Thanks. It is the final bill where the mis-charging has occurred
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 10th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • 3,547 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    Thanks. It is the final bill where the mis-charging has occurred
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    Very naughty. Let us know how things progress.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 10th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • 3,069 Posts
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    footyguy
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Mar 17, 6:43 PM
    Thanks. It is the final bill where the mis-charging has occurred
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    Follow their complaint procedure.
    If they still are mainatin they are correct, ask for a deadlock letter to speed matters up
    Once you have the deadlock letter (or you will have to wait 8 weeks) off to the ombudsman

    Btw, when did the switch actually take place? You say after 28 Feb, so it is rather surprising you have got the final bill already.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 10th Mar 17, 8:55 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    Follow their complaint procedure.
    If they still are mainatin they are correct, ask for a deadlock letter to speed matters up
    Once you have the deadlock letter (or you will have to wait 8 weeks) off to the ombudsman

    Btw, when did the switch actually take place? You say after 28 Feb, so it is rather surprising you have got the final bill already.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    The switch took place on 2nd March and the 'final statement' is dated 8th March 2017.

    It's only 1 day charged at the standard rate (so trivial in my case, about a 80p overcharge), but I rang them up because I don't like the principle of them doing this when they are supposed not to and have promised they won't do this, and my hunch was that if that is how mine has been billed then that is how others will be billed.

    The first complaint handler implied pretty much everybody who had switched from the collective switch but whose physical switch from the fixed rate collective switch delayed past 28th February was as a default position being billed incorrectly.

    He actually said that they are right to bill post 28th February at the standard rate, and that had to be right or else that would mean they had billed large numbers of others incorrectly

    But if we assume they are wrong not to apply license condition 24.9 in the way we think it should be applied, but that the compliant handler is right that this is their default billing methodology then large numbers must be being billed incorrectly hence my translation

    The complaint is ongoing and the 56 day clock is ticking. I think I did get eventual agreement from them today after over an hour of phone calls for the 1 day to be billed at the collective fixed rate tariff rates, but I have said that unless they confirm in writing that they accept that they are required by the license conditions and their own terms and conditions and statement in the 'your tariff ends soon' letter to bill the day at the old fixed rate the complaint wasn't closed in my view.

    Only others experience will clarify whether they, going forward, bill people correctly, so will be interested to hear from others with final bills straddling both sides of 28th February.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 11-03-2017 at 9:23 AM.
    I came, I saw, I melted
    • phillw
    • By phillw 12th Mar 17, 4:15 PM
    • 359 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    phillw
    I think I did get eventual agreement from them today after over an hour of phone calls for the 1 day to be billed at the collective fixed rate tariff rates, but I have said that unless they confirm in writing that they accept that they are required by the license conditions and their own terms and conditions and statement in the 'your tariff ends soon' letter to bill the day at the old fixed rate the complaint wasn't closed in my view.
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    While I admire your principals, if they agree to leave you on the collective tariff then as long as they don't ask you to sign an NDA then you should probably take it and let us know. If you try to get them to admit anything then they'll probably treat you less favourably, which will make them more likely to refuse requests from anyone else.

    The people you deal with have a certain level of discretion but will bounce anything higher to someone who has less empathy.
    Last edited by phillw; 12-03-2017 at 4:18 PM.
    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 12th Mar 17, 5:48 PM
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    • 1,169 Thanks
    footyguy
    The switch took place on 2nd March and the 'final statement' is dated 8th March 2017.

    It's only 1 day charged at the standard rate (so trivial in my case, about a 80p overcharge), but I rang them up because I don't like the principle of them doing this when they are supposed not to and have promised they won't do this, and my hunch was that if that is how mine has been billed then that is how others will be billed.

    The first complaint handler implied pretty much everybody who had switched from the collective switch but whose physical switch from the fixed rate collective switch delayed past 28th February was as a default position being billed incorrectly.

    He actually said that they are right to bill post 28th February at the standard rate, and that had to be right or else that would mean they had billed large numbers of others incorrectly

    But if we assume they are wrong not to apply license condition 24.9 in the way we think it should be applied, but that the compliant handler is right that this is their default billing methodology then large numbers must be being billed incorrectly hence my translation

    The complaint is ongoing and the 56 day clock is ticking. I think I did get eventual agreement from them today after over an hour of phone calls for the 1 day to be billed at the collective fixed rate tariff rates, but I have said that unless they confirm in writing that they accept that they are required by the license conditions and their own terms and conditions and statement in the 'your tariff ends soon' letter to bill the day at the old fixed rate the complaint wasn't closed in my view.

    Only others experience will clarify whether they, going forward, bill people correctly, so will be interested to hear from others with final bills straddling both sides of 28th February.
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    I'm so glad you have managed to sort this out in a simple phone call.

    It would appear you now have no cause for complaint ... except previously you said

    Thanks. It is the final bill where the mis-charging has occurred
    by SnowMan


    But if you were previously mistaken, or they will now re-bill you correctly, then you have no cause for ongoing complaint. (once you get the revised bill, if appropriate)
    Last edited by footyguy; 12-03-2017 at 5:52 PM.
    • SnowMan
    • By SnowMan 12th Mar 17, 6:44 PM
    • 3,085 Posts
    • 5,708 Thanks
    SnowMan
    I'm so glad you have managed to sort this out in a simple phone call.
    Originally posted by footyguy
    That made me laugh

    After a number of phone calls lasting over an hour, where there was no indication of backing down on their part, I was asked in the last call if billing me throughout on the collective tariff would resolve the issue. I explained that given the time I had had to spend to get to that point, I required a written letter to confirm what their position was in terms of their believing they weren't breaching the supply license conditions or their own conditions.

    The current position is that I have been billed on the standard tariff for gas for 1 day and this hasn't been corrected.

    It would appear you now have no cause for complaint
    Originally posted by footyguy
    My objective here is to make sure others aren't wrongly billed also. I'm taking other action to make sure this doesn't happen. Being able to take a complaint forward individually isn't relevant to this.

    What we don't know is if British Gas are routinely overcharging by charging on the standard tariff where a transfer is in progress but doesn't physically take place until after 28th February, so that needs other to post up on when their final bills come in.
    Last edited by SnowMan; 12-03-2017 at 7:03 PM.
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    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 12th Mar 17, 7:00 PM
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    footyguy
    Good luck, SnowMan!
    • chocolateteddy
    • By chocolateteddy 13th Mar 17, 10:21 AM
    • 494 Posts
    • 3,117 Thanks
    chocolateteddy
    I too switched from British Gas Collective but I went to Avro the process was very very simple which surprised me.

    I entered my readings as requested by Avro when I transferred on 8th March and British gas have generated a final gas bill but as yet no electricity bill (was surprised at speed of gas bill so not worried yet by lack of Elec bill).

    BUT they too have me on the collective rate till 28 Feb and standard rate between 1st and 8th March. Like you say it is the principal I haven't worked out the extra cost as I am waiting for final elec bill before querying it.

    I know when I swapped from other suppliers previously the rate was always held at the lower rate even though I often didn't get the switch through before the end of the fixed term.
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    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 13th Mar 17, 8:29 PM
    • 3,069 Posts
    • 1,169 Thanks
    footyguy
    I too switched from British Gas Collective but I went to Avro the process was very very simple which surprised me.

    I entered my readings as requested by Avro when I transferred on 8th March and British gas have generated a final gas bill but as yet no electricity bill (was surprised at speed of gas bill so not worried yet by lack of Elec bill).

    BUT they too have me on the collective rate till 28 Feb and standard rate between 1st and 8th March. Like you say it is the principal I haven't worked out the extra cost as I am waiting for final elec bill before querying it.

    I know when I swapped from other suppliers previously the rate was always held at the lower rate even though I often didn't get the switch through before the end of the fixed term.
    Originally posted by chocolateteddy
    If you already have a final bill for gas, why are you waiting?

    Complain now!

    As SnowMan found, a quick phone call sorted it all out. Surely that is better than sitting there waiting until they make the same mistake on the leccy?
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 14th Mar 17, 1:30 AM
    • 1,083 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Interesting, having helped a family member switch from BG to Sainsburys (BG), it appears their final bill from 1st March to 10th March does not include a correction nor continuation of the previous cheaper tariff.
    • phillw
    • By phillw 14th Mar 17, 1:33 PM
    • 359 Posts
    • 161 Thanks
    phillw
    What we don't know is if British Gas are routinely overcharging by charging on the standard tariff where a transfer is in progress but doesn't physically take place until after 28th February, so that needs other to post up on when their final bills come in.
    Originally posted by SnowMan
    I think it's obvious that British Gas are switching people onto the standard rate on the date they said they would. The problem is that while it's true if they inform you of a price rise and then you decide to leave then they cannot raise your price as you have rejected the rise, in the case of a fixed price contract they inform you up front the date that your price will rise & so it's deemed that you accept it.

    British Gas also inform you notice about 7 weeks before your fixed price is coming to an end and it's up to you to switch away in time to avoid the standard rate. Obviously you'd have a cause to complain if the switch was delayed through no fault of your own, but 5 weeks is unfortunately the standard time it takes to switch.

    However, if you complain nicely then they'll probably let you off the money just to get rid of you as it will cost them more to go to the ombudsman. If enough people successfully complain then they may rethink how they do things in future.

    If people phone them up and say they have been overcharged and british gas are breaking the rules then it's more likely they'll decide they haven't broken the rules and distribute a memo to all their handling staff telling them to not refund.
    • chocolateteddy
    • By chocolateteddy 14th Mar 17, 5:36 PM
    • 494 Posts
    • 3,117 Thanks
    chocolateteddy
    If you already have a final bill for gas, why are you waiting?

    Complain now!

    As SnowMan found, a quick phone call sorted it all out. Surely that is better than sitting there waiting until they make the same mistake on the leccy?
    Originally posted by footyguy
    I phoned them and they say the electircity bill is in the process of being generated and they would look into the gas bill and ring me back - Surprisingly no phone call back and it wasn't a quick phone call it took forever to speak to someone and was then passed from department to department. Elec bill is showing in my online account but can't be downloaded yet - probably tomorrow.
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    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 16th Mar 17, 4:56 PM
    • 1,083 Posts
    • 599 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Update:
    Speaking with British Gas at the moment.

    They are pretty clueless and seem unaware they are meant to retain prices up to 20 days after the tariff ends.

    They seem to know nothing about this, even though it is in their literature.
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