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  • FIRST POST
    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 10th Feb 17, 6:04 PM
    • 46Posts
    • 43Thanks
    Gooston
    PCM Parking Charge at Hayes and Harlington Station
    • #1
    • 10th Feb 17, 6:04 PM
    PCM Parking Charge at Hayes and Harlington Station 10th Feb 17 at 6:04 PM
    Hi everyone. To start, here is what happened. I was dropped off at Hayes and Harlington Station (at the back, near Tesco if anybody is familiar with this) and because I was late, the car stopped on one of the yellow lines and I got out in maybe what was 5-8 seconds. Today, my father, as the keeper of the vehicle, received a postal notification of a Parking Charge. Attached are two pictures, with the door open (this is me exiting) and as far as I'm aware, the car isn't parked, it is embarking/disembarking (correct me if I'm wrong)?

    Now, I have read around and read the newbies thread and understand that PCM is a private company and they are registered with the IPC. I've found the same issue with this station on pepipoo forums but I am unable to sign up for some reason. Just to make sure I am on the write track of appealing do I email the IPC parking template to them? It's not be noted that at this point no contact with PCM has been made so there has been no confirmation of who the driver was. I also want to add that my friend got the exact same letter at the same station and he has ignored every single one and has received letters about debt collectors and solicitors. Can anyone help me to see if I am on the right track?

    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by Gooston; 11-02-2017 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Grammar
Page 5
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 17, 1:14 PM
    • 45,193 Posts
    • 57,852 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Lord Neuberger (Supreme Court) also defined parking in his comments in Moncrieff:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71877568#post71877568

    Persuasive opinion as he is one of the UK's top Judges.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Timothea
    • By Timothea 8th Mar 17, 1:36 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 194 Thanks
    Timothea
    The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended (RTRA) does not define "parking" so the OED definition is as good a definition as any.

    It should be noted that both the RTRA and the Highway Code talk about "parking", "waiting", "loading or unloading" and "setting down or picking up passengers", each as a separate activity, with the term "stopping" encompassing all of them. It is possible that "waiting" could be regarded as "parking" as they are frequently mentioned in the same breath (e.g. "parking or waiting" is common in the RTRA). However, "loading or unloading" and "setting down or picking up passengers" are clearly different from parking.

    A good example of the difference between "parking" and "setting down or picking up passengers" is a taxi or minicab, which are allowed to set down or pick up passengers on the public highway when parking restrictions are in place. However, if a taxi or minicab is waiting to pick up a passenger then any parking or waiting restrictions would apply. The same applies to any vehicle setting down or picking up passengers; it doesn't have to be a licensed taxi or minicab, as they do not have a special status in the RTRA.
    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 8th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    The judgment in Halliday -v- Creation Consumer Finance Limited [2013] EWCA Civ 333, paragraph 29, says:So, the Appeal Court judges took the failure by the data subject to send a section 10 data subject notice to the data controllers as detrimental to the data subject's case.

    A section 10 data subject notice, in my view, has several advantages:
    1. It is the correct way for a data subject to ask a data controller to stop processing heir data
    2. It requires the data controller to provide a substantive response to the data subject within 21 days
    3. It shows the data controller that the data subject is familiar with the Data Protection Act 1998
    4. If it is found that a DPA breach has occurred and the data controller has not complied with the notice then it may justify an increased quantum for compensation

    I'm sure the BMPA has a point and, obviously, District Judges are not Appeal Court judges, but I think the balance is definitely for sending a section 10 data subject notice as soon as a DPA breach is suspected. If nothing else, it puts the data controller in a negative light if it fail to respond at all.
    Originally posted by Timothea

    Interesting, I will definitely consider this then.


    More directed towards Coupon-mad and Timothea. If I was to wait for the debt collector letters from Gladstones (which add on additional costs) would that do me any harm before receiving the inevitable LBC from PCM? I'm only asking because I am unsure how these additional costs look like in court? I was thinking of waiting for the first debt collectors letter before replying (with Gan's example) refuting any additional costs which may have been made up. I might start looking into writing up a defence already or is it too soon?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 17, 4:05 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Yes you can wait if only at debt collector stage. The only time not to miss a deadline is at court papers stage.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 8th Mar 17, 5:16 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    Got it. I've seen Gan has replied to the debt collector letters so I may go down that road (when I get them, I have nothing yet). I will likely send a s10 as well, I will speak to the helpful person at BMPA again with Timothea's suggestions.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 17, 6:33 PM
    • 45,193 Posts
    • 57,852 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Gan and the BMPA main adviser are both spot on with their advice. Can't go wrong following what they say.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 8th Mar 17, 6:46 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    Gan and the BMPA main adviser are both spot on with their advice. Can't go wrong following what they say.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    That's reassuring to hear! Is Gan on MSE boards as well or just PPP?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Mar 17, 9:28 PM
    • 45,193 Posts
    • 57,852 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Gan doesn't post here AFAIK but I do know his advice is spot on.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 20th Mar 17, 12:04 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    Not an update, I have PM'd bargepole and received an answer from BMPA as well, but I was hoping I could PM someone on here who is a lot more knowledgeable than I am and give me another thought on the matter? I do not want to post the question here in case PCM are monitoring.


    Thanks in advanced.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Mar 17, 7:29 PM
    • 45,193 Posts
    • 57,852 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Most regulars here don't take pm's as a rule, no time...but we do know that advice from bargepole and the BMPA is spot on.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 21st Mar 17, 9:09 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    Yeah, I received a response from bargepole and it was pretty much what the BMPA said. Thanks!
    • purplelauren1985
    • By purplelauren1985 10th Apr 17, 1:40 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    purplelauren1985
    I'm in a similar situation with the same company and the same place. I appealed the initial letter (which was rejected as I was instructed it would be) and have ignored subsequent letters. 2 months ago i got an LBC letter from Gladstones but I didn't respond (I didn't think I had to unless I got a letter taking it to court). Did I have to respond to that? I've been following what people are saying about this for a while on both PPP and MSE and have always found brilliant advice but now I'm a bit worried I've messed it up.
    Last edited by purplelauren1985; 10-04-2017 at 2:30 PM. Reason: clarity
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Apr 17, 2:39 PM
    • 12,227 Posts
    • 18,654 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I'm in a similar situation with the same company and the same place. I appealed the initial letter (which was rejected as I was instructed it would be) and have ignored subsequent letters. 2 months ago i got an LBC letter from Gladstones but I didn't respond (I didn't think I had to unless I got a letter taking it to court). Did I have to respond to that? I've been following what people are saying about this for a while on both PPP and MSE and have always found brilliant advice but now I'm a bit worried I've messed it up.
    Originally posted by purplelauren1985
    Please start your own thread where you will get advice tailored to your own circumstances.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • Gooston
    • By Gooston 18th Apr 17, 5:27 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Gooston
    Trace Debt Collecters letter received. Filed
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