Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • tempus31
    • By tempus31 9th Feb 17, 5:37 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 0Thanks
    tempus31
    I've been a victim of a Direct Debit Fraud - Barclay's will not refund me
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 17, 5:37 PM
    I've been a victim of a Direct Debit Fraud - Barclay's will not refund me 9th Feb 17 at 5:37 PM
    Hello
    Four weeks ago I discovered that I had been the victim of a direct debit fraud placed on my account, named as PAYPAL INTER LTD.
    I was shocked to discover that this had been on my account for 8 years and as I use Paypal extensively, these debits went unnoticed ( i use paypal now and transfer the money into my account and can take up to 500 payments in a weekend whilst at work).
    These debits have totalled to nearly £25,000 and are not linked to Paypal in any way. I have been in contact with paypal to confirm this.
    I have sent proof to Barclays showing my normal paypal transactions against the fake 'paypal' debits and they have refused my indemnity claim on the basis i have not provided proof. How I don't know... as i have done. Barclay's have also told me to track down the fraudsters and claim my money back from them... !!
    Their attitude stinks. They are telling me to become a private detective to sort this out.
    I have never authorised or signed any direct debit agreement with this so called company and yet Barclays refuse to investigate, though i have a crime number too.
    Just where do i stand in trying to reclaim my money back?
    In two days the thieves took over £2000 in six separate debits, and yet none of these were ever picked up by Barclays fraud systems.
    I have contacted the ombudsman, but the way Barclay's treated me makes me furious that they are willing to allow fraud and not investigate and this situation is making me ill.
    I would appreciate any help or guidance.

    If this post is in the wrong area, admin please move to the relevant place where i can come back and check on any feedback.

    Thank You
Page 2
    • meer53
    • By meer53 9th Feb 17, 9:49 PM
    • 8,981 Posts
    • 13,046 Thanks
    meer53
    I would notice a 25p DD leaving my account if i didn't recognise it, never mind £25k.
    • Flobberchops
    • By Flobberchops 9th Feb 17, 11:18 PM
    • 593 Posts
    • 428 Thanks
    Flobberchops
    A bit of speculation -

    If I had to guess (and I do stress I'm just guessing here) I imagine that Barclays suspect that your request to pull £25k of money, some of it the best part of a decade old, using the Direct Debit guarantee is either a) an attempt at fraud on your part or b) the actions of a disgruntled customer rather than an unwitting victim of fraud, and notably contractual disputes aren't covered by the guarantee.

    The huge sum, plus the timescale involved, would make it understandably difficult for a third party to come to the belief that you were an unwilling and unwitting party to the payments.

    If this is honestly a scam or account takeover that you've been affected by, I'd say keep complaining and ask for it to be escalated if your evidence isn't enough for them. Whoever has been taking your money is clearly no amateur and could represent the tip of an organised crime group. Refer to the Ombudsman if all else fails. Did you mention whether you'd notified the police?
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 10th Feb 17, 3:34 AM
    • 7,294 Posts
    • 9,032 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    It has to be said.

    There is no apostrophe in Barclays.
    • Hasbeen
    • By Hasbeen 10th Feb 17, 8:05 AM
    • 911 Posts
    • 663 Thanks
    Hasbeen
    Perhaps this should be moved to the E bay board?

    Where there is a lot of experienced sellers etc

    Paypal can take money from your bank as you agreed to this when giving bank details, some banks put this as a down on statement as DD but it isn't?

    It appears you can check your account as below:

    Log in to your PayPal account.
    Click the 'Settings' icon at the top of the page.
    Under 'Payment settings', click Pre-approved payments..
    Use the filter to select the seller whose agreement you want to cancel and click Cancel.

    Might be useful for some.
    Last edited by Hasbeen; 10-02-2017 at 8:11 AM.
    • camelot1971
    • By camelot1971 10th Feb 17, 8:17 AM
    • 550 Posts
    • 861 Thanks
    camelot1971
    Isn't their set up my first line of defense?
    Originally posted by tempus31
    I think you will find that YOU are the first line of defense. Not noticing £25k of payments over 8 years is negligence.

    To be honest, I think the OP is a troll.
    • Biggles
    • By Biggles 10th Feb 17, 9:03 AM
    • 7,514 Posts
    • 4,908 Thanks
    Biggles
    Is it o.k to use a Personal Current Account for Business - don't Barclays have an issue with this?
    Originally posted by frank777
    I have to say I was wondering if that was their main beef; maybe the famous 'DD Guarantee' only applies to personal accounts and they feel you've been using it for business (which you clearly have)? Just a thought.

    Their next move will almost certainly be to tell you to open a business account for these transactions.
    • colsten
    • By colsten 10th Feb 17, 1:14 PM
    • 8,811 Posts
    • 7,497 Thanks
    colsten
    It's probably purchases made by somebody quite close to the OP, paid for from the OP's Paypal account.
    • Candyapple
    • By Candyapple 10th Feb 17, 2:09 PM
    • 2,495 Posts
    • 1,862 Thanks
    Candyapple
    It's probably purchases made by somebody quite close to the OP, paid for from the OP's Paypal account.
    Originally posted by colsten
    I'm inclined to agree. Especially when the below was mentioned, how else would they know how much money they could spend?

    Sadly yes.
    I use paypal extensively around 50 times a day, so they set up a debit and called it paypal which blended in with the normal transactions....
    I also use paypal here whilst at work, I may take hundreds of transactions in a day, my monthly statements on the theft debits just says 'PAYPAL' NORMAL DEBIT, so it went unnoticed.
    It's only this past year they've raped my account heavily.
    Bottom line is it's happened and now need to try and fix whatever I can.
    Originally posted by tempus31

    Hi
    They are direct debits and I cancelled it once i saw an amount leave my account.
    All that Barclay's have said is that they could not establish an error returning reason afforded by the direct debit scheme? It's an illegal debit on my account which i never set up or authorised.
    I've provided proof they are not my transactions - even after the debit was cancelled the thieves continued to try taking money from my account, which thankfully were halted.
    Going through my account now with a fine tooth comb, when I received my medical dismissal severance from my previous employer, they hit my account hard and took thousands out in a few days
    If the ombudsman comes back in Barclay's favour - where does that leave me?
    Originally posted by tempus31
    • Placitasgirl
    • By Placitasgirl 10th Feb 17, 3:03 PM
    • 231 Posts
    • 397 Thanks
    Placitasgirl
    I find it hard to envisage how your internal accounting/cashflow/budgeting procedures could have permitted this situation to continue for 8 years. Did you never have a time when you thought "something isn't right here?" or become concerned about "missing" funds in your balance?

    I agree that this sounds horribly like somebody who is aware of your circumstances taking advantage of them. How else would anyone know the "best" time to take funds from your account? I previously worked in a bank's Fraud department and it was awful to see how often the perpetrator was known to the victim.

    I suppose the only message here is one to everyone who reads this to be diligent and keep a regular check on what you're expecting to be paid from your account and to investigate and report any anomalies immediately.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 10th Feb 17, 3:33 PM
    • 8,614 Posts
    • 5,094 Thanks
    teddysmum
    So many direct debits, per day, to Paypal, indicate business use, so surely accounts are kept ?


    Regarding Paypal, there appears to be a current scam : I received two emails, last week, saying that a payment of 50GBP to [named person] was pending. I had an account years ago, but never used it, so was immediately suspicious and didn't to click the given link , which was to be used to decline the transaction.


    I suspect that this link would have asked for bank details and 'know' that no one on here would be silly enough to click , would they ?
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 10th Feb 17, 3:34 PM
    • 3,052 Posts
    • 3,165 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    I'm inclined to agree. Especially when the below was mentioned, how else would they know how much money they could spend?
    Originally posted by Candyapple
    Good point. A very very good point.

    To the point that FOS would probably ask the same question and refuse to uphold since the fraudulent transactions all seemed to coincide with things only OP would know about.

    I also find it extremely hard to believe, even believing what OP is saying about the transactions being duplicates of genuine ones, that they hadn't noticed these transactions coming out twice. For eight years. Over £25k.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • JuicyJesus
    • By JuicyJesus 10th Feb 17, 3:39 PM
    • 3,052 Posts
    • 3,165 Thanks
    JuicyJesus
    I have to say I was wondering if that was their main beef; maybe the famous 'DD Guarantee' only applies to personal accounts and they feel you've been using it for business (which you clearly have)? Just a thought.

    Their next move will almost certainly be to tell you to open a business account for these transactions.
    Originally posted by Biggles
    The Direct Debit Guarantee is for the entire Direct Debit system and as such business customers are entitled to use it as well. It's worth pointing out that the DD Guarantee doesn't actually explicitly cover fraudulent debits (i.e. you didn't set up the DD). It only covers where a mistake is made by someone collecting a DD you've set up. Fraud is dealt with separately on a bank-by-bank basis.

    Barclays clearly have concerns over this hence them not refunding. By and large, if you have a fraudulent DD set up which you notice the payments for within a reasonable amount of time your bank will refund you. Not reporting multiple payments over eight years totalling over £25,000 is not reasonable in any way, shape or form.
    urs sinserly,
    ~~joosy jeezus~~
    • Robisere
    • By Robisere 10th Feb 17, 3:52 PM
    • 1,893 Posts
    • 2,668 Thanks
    Robisere
    I must have received at least a dozen fake PP phishing scams since I first used PP. I check each email carefully against a known PP Header address and if I have the slightest doubt, it goes in Junk without opening it, if it is not already put there by the scanner. Then I "View Message Source" for another check. If I don't like it, I use <spoof@paypal.co.uk> to forward it to PP HQ. If it's crooked, I get a congrats and thanks from PP, if not they OK it. I have never had one verified as genuine by PP, that I have forwarded as a possible phishing attempt.

    Just another warning to keep a regular eye on your finances and check your emails carefully. I think the OP's problem stems from being just too busy to check either. It's a very expensive lesson and people are always learning it. I have sympathy for anyone caught like this: it's not good to tell the OP what should have been done: he should see it as a lesson for the future, albeit a costly lesson. It could happen to any of us, without the right precautions. And even then, it may not be enough.
    There may be more than one way to skin a cat.
    But the result is always inedible.

Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

4,470Posts Today

8,751Users online

Martin's Twitter