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  • FIRST POST
    • BettyBoof
    • By BettyBoof 9th Feb 17, 5:34 PM
    • 234Posts
    • 1,480Thanks
    BettyBoof
    Micro Investing
    • #1
    • 9th Feb 17, 5:34 PM
    Micro Investing 9th Feb 17 at 5:34 PM
    Hi, apologies if this has been asked before but a search didn't throw any threads up.

    Do any of you use M0ney B0x or similar to micro invest? You link the app to your debit card and then every time you spend money it gets rounded up and invested. E.g. a £1.80 coffee will get rounded up to £2 and the 20p will be set aside to be invested.

    I'm only just looking into it and I think it's fairly new so wondered if anyone had any experience of investing this way? It sounds like a fun and easy way to save without needing huge sums to get started but I'm wondering if the small amounts will make it worth it?
Page 2
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 18th Mar 17, 2:16 PM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    JohnRo
    You obviously don't understand what it is you are attempting to discuss.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    One of us doesn't.

    Saving into a percentage based ISA platform typically has zero cost upfront.

    That's zero cost in case you didn't understand, as in absolutely nothing.

    When you've applied for and opened the ISA account and moved money in there is zero cost again.

    Then when you choose to buy an investment fund you'll pay zero cost again, keeping track.. that's zero so far.

    Only when you've purchased the fund do you then start to pay a platform fee charged monthly in arrears typically around 0.25% each year of whatever investment value you hold.

    Contrast that with

    I squirrel away at least £80 per month almost entirely from rounding up purchases to the next full pound.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    your current ~1.25% p.a. £1 monthly charge and additional 0.45% p.a. charge.

    You're screwed either way, the more you squirrel away the greater the damage inflicted by the 0.45% charge is, in absolute terms. The less you squirrel away the greater the damage the £1 overhead inflicts in percentage terms.
    Last edited by JohnRo; 18-03-2017 at 2:52 PM.
    'We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.' ― Albert Einstein
    'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.' ― Aldous Huxley
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 18th Mar 17, 2:55 PM
    • 3,030 Posts
    • 782 Thanks
    Anthorn
    One of us doesn't.

    Saving into a percentage based ISA platform typically has zero cost upfront.

    That's zero cost in case you didn't understand, as in absolutely nothing.

    When you've applied for and opened the ISA account and moved money in there is zero cost again.

    Then when you choose to buy an investment fund you'll pay zero cost again, keeping track.. that's zero so far.

    Only when you've purchased the fund do you then start to pay a platform fee charged monthly in arrears typically around 0.25% each year of whatever investment value you hold.
    Originally posted by JohnRo
    For example, Hargreaves Lansdown another company which holds some of my funds charges 0.45% to a maximum of £45 per annum with no fees for buying and selling funds. As Stocks and Shares ISAs go that's cheap but correct me if I'm wrong, that's more than a flat £1 per month.
    http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/savings-interest-rates-and-charges

    But not all ISA providers are created equal: For example a Halifax S&S ISA which in my view falls around middle of the spectrum:
    Real-time online trades
    £12.50 dealing commission per trade
    Scheduled regular investments £2.00 dealing commission per trade
    Annual administration charges
    £12.50 per year (including VAT)
    Transferring in shares from another ISA manager
    FREE
    Transfer in from an approved sharesave scheme FREE
    Transfer out charges £25 per investment (maximum £125)
    ISA closure fee
    No closure charge, however, the current annual administration fee (pro-rated) is payable
    https://www.halifax.co.uk/sharedealing/our-accounts/stocks-and-shares-isa/Default.asp

    Again correct me if I'm wrong but that too is more than £1 flat fee per month.

    I could go on and on quoting provider after provider and charges after charges but I don't think that's necessary. Overall, Moneybox at £1 per month flat fee is a good deal.
    • JohnRo
    • By JohnRo 18th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    • 2,347 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    JohnRo
    Horses for courses.

    It depends how much, how often and in what form you're investing as to which platform provides the most economical fee structure.

    The example you gave shows you're paying Moneybox ~1.7% p.a.

    You'd be very hard pressed to find that sort of fee being charged on your investment amounts at any of the mainstream providers.
    'We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.' ― Albert Einstein
    'Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.' ― Aldous Huxley
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 18th Mar 17, 3:33 PM
    • 3,159 Posts
    • 3,598 Thanks
    ColdIron
    For example, Hargreaves Lansdown another company which holds some of my funds charges 0.45% to a maximum of £45 per annum with no fees for buying and selling funds. As Stocks and Shares ISAs go that's cheap but correct me if I'm wrong, that's more than a flat £1 per month.
    http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/savings-interest-rates-and-charges
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Allow me to correct you

    HL only apply the £45 cap to company shares, investment trusts or ETFs. There is a fee of £11.95 for buying and selling these

    If you have 'funds' (unit trusts/OEICs) then there is no cap and you pay the full 0.45% until you have £250,000. These are free to buy and sell. As Stocks and Shares ISAs go that's not cheap
    • Eco Miser
    • By Eco Miser 18th Mar 17, 5:52 PM
    • 2,842 Posts
    • 2,633 Thanks
    Eco Miser
    For example, Hargreaves Lansdown another company which holds some of my funds charges 0.45% to a maximum of £45 per annum with no fees for buying and selling funds. As Stocks and Shares ISAs go that's cheap but correct me if I'm wrong, that's more than a flat £1 per month.
    http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/savings-interest-rates-and-charges

    But not all ISA providers are created equal: For example a Halifax S&S ISA which in my view falls around middle of the spectrum:

    https://www.halifax.co.uk/sharedealing/our-accounts/stocks-and-shares-isa/Default.asp

    Again correct me if I'm wrong but that too is more than £1 flat fee per month.

    I could go on and on quoting provider after provider and charges after charges but I don't think that's necessary. Overall, Moneybox at £1 per month flat fee is a good deal.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    But, according to your earlier post:
    The fees are a flat fee of £1 per month plus 0.45% platform fee per year.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    which means that H-L at only 0.45% per year is cheaper by £12 (or more if the cap applies), and H-L is expensive compared to most percentage fee platforms.

    Halifax, at 50p more than the flat-fee part of Moneybox's £1 a month, beats Moneybox whenever it's transaction fees amount to less than 0.45% of the total invested, which depends on the investor behavior.
    Eco Miser
    Saving money for well over half a century
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 18th Mar 17, 6:41 PM
    • 11,836 Posts
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    jimjames
    The rest of your post repeats what you've already said to which I've already replied above. You obviously don't understand what it is you are attempting to discuss. For example you say that £12 a year is very expensive on whatever is squirelled away with knowing or even considering how much is squirrelled away.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Unfortunately you're giving the impression of being the one who doesn't understand. When multiple people are telling you your info is incorrect then maybe it's time to reevaluate your thoughts HL only charges a percentage fee of 0.45% on funds. That's it, no other fees for putting money in.
    My finances are not 'that tight' and I do have a pension. I was asking about M0ney B0x as I had just come across it and it seemed like a fun way for a complete beginner to start investing without needing a £10k lump sum, not because I am in dire financial straits!
    Originally posted by BettyBoof
    As I popsted originally you definitely don't need a £10k lump sum to get started with any mainstream S&S ISA provider, some start at £25 and most start at £50 so if money isn't an issue then one of those would be a far better choice.
    Last edited by jimjames; 18-03-2017 at 6:43 PM.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • Plus
    • By Plus 18th Mar 17, 11:30 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 170 Thanks
    Plus
    Again correct me if I'm wrong but that too is more than £1 flat fee per month.

    I could go on and on quoting provider after provider and charges after charges but I don't think that's necessary. Overall, Moneybox at £1 per month flat fee is a good deal.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Patient: Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this.
    Doctor: Well, don't do that then.

    There are plenty of percentage-fee providers whose costs are absolutely lower than Moneybox - for whatever amount of money you choose to invest. At that point, there's no point even considering the ones with fixed fees.

    But for any amount of money lower than the minimum investment of percentage fee providers (typically £50pm), the £12pa Moneybox fee is going to hammer any gains (it's equivalent to a 2% fee on £600pa).

    So all these tricks with saving the change and micro contributions are a nice gimmick, but basically either you invest enough to be cheaper at a mainstream provider, or the fees make it not worth your while investing.

    The only benefit I can see is the psychology of make you save, and introducing you to investment. That's maybe worth something. Maybe they can figure out a way to attract people with more cash and drop their fees to a market rate, using the micro contributions thing as promotion or loss leader. But the bottom line is fintech startups have to make revenue somehow, and targeting people with no money isn't the way to do that.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 19th Mar 17, 7:45 PM
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    Anthorn
    Unfortunately you're giving the impression of being the one who doesn't understand. When multiple people are telling you your info is incorrect then maybe it's time to reevaluate your thoughts HL only charges a percentage fee of 0.45% on funds. That's it, no other fees for putting money in.

    As I popsted originally you definitely don't need a £10k lump sum to get started with any mainstream S&S ISA provider, some start at £25 and most start at £50 so if money isn't an issue then one of those would be a far better choice.
    Originally posted by jimjames
    Perhaps I worded my post wrongly: I actually posted what in my own personal experience of the cheapest I can think of which is HL because I use them. Then I quoted what I personalyt regard as middle of the road S&S ISA in terms of charges which is Halifax. To my mind that post of mine was therefore a fair comparison. Pretty obvious though if you actually read my post.

    But I wrote a quick forum post and not a scientific paper ROFL

    But your post is mainly pedantry: Where are your examples and links?
    Last edited by Anthorn; 19-03-2017 at 9:19 PM.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 19th Mar 17, 7:49 PM
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    Anthorn
    Patient: Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this.
    Doctor: Well, don't do that then.

    There are plenty of percentage-fee providers whose costs are absolutely lower than Moneybox - for whatever amount of money you choose to invest. At that point, there's no point even considering the ones with fixed fees.

    But for any amount of money lower than the minimum investment of percentage fee providers (typically £50pm), the £12pa Moneybox fee is going to hammer any gains (it's equivalent to a 2% fee on £600pa).

    So all these tricks with saving the change and micro contributions are a nice gimmick, but basically either you invest enough to be cheaper at a mainstream provider, or the fees make it not worth your while investing.

    The only benefit I can see is the psychology of make you save, and introducing you to investment. That's maybe worth something. Maybe they can figure out a way to attract people with more cash and drop their fees to a market rate, using the micro contributions thing as promotion or loss leader. But the bottom line is fintech startups have to make revenue somehow, and targeting people with no money isn't the way to do that.
    Originally posted by Plus
    Good grief, the dogs really have been called out. But perhaps we need some new dogs because it's the same ones every time.

    Yet again pedantry: If you don't agree with my post then you must have one or alternatives but you don't quote them. If you don't have alternatives then you cannot possibly disagree!

    You obviously don't know the first thing about Moneybox: Kinda like saying you don't like Asparagus soup when you have never tasted it. btw it's very nice soup

    I'm moving on now so don't expect me to reply to further posts. I find pedantry pretty much a chore to read and reply to anyway. Really nothing constructive to reply to, just mindless verbal diarrhea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant
    Last edited by Anthorn; 19-03-2017 at 8:48 PM. Reason: Link added
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 19th Mar 17, 9:05 PM
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    Anthorn
    Allow me to correct you

    HL only apply the £45 cap to company shares, investment trusts or ETFs. There is a fee of £11.95 for buying and selling these

    If you have 'funds' (unit trusts/OEICs) then there is no cap and you pay the full 0.45% until you have £250,000. These are free to buy and sell. As Stocks and Shares ISAs go that's not cheap
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    I really do hate to ask, but what's your alternative to a HL ISA which you say is "not cheap". Or don't you have one?

    My last in this thread anyway so don't bother.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 19th Mar 17, 9:24 PM
    • 3,159 Posts
    • 3,598 Thanks
    ColdIron
    Don't let the door ...
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 19th Mar 17, 9:26 PM
    • 11,836 Posts
    • 10,200 Thanks
    jimjames
    I really do hate to ask, but what's your alternative to a HL ISA which you say is "not cheap". Or don't you have one?

    My last in this thread anyway so don't bother.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    If you cared to look on the forum at the posts showing different platforms you'd see but Fidelity is certainly one that is almost half the price of HL.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 19th Mar 17, 10:20 PM
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    Anthorn
    If you cared to look on the forum at the posts showing different platforms you'd see but Fidelity is certainly one that is almost half the price of HL.
    Originally posted by jimjames
    That's strange: I address a post to ColdIron and you reply. Are you one and the same person by any chance?

    Fidelity what? But I don't consider 0.35% to be half of 0.45% ROFL assuming my capital is more than £7,499.99. But hey sounds good. I'll ring them and start an ISA for £1 a week as I can do with Moneybox. But why Fidelity? Why not Blackrock, Henderson, Vanguard? Foreign & Colonial?

    Hey now you get a new ROFL: ROFL. What it really comes down to is you don't understand Moneybox and for that reason you dismiss it. You don't even understand the fund manager you recommend, Fidelity.

    What Moneybox is about is helping people who don't have the money to save, to save. That's why it and others like it target Millennials. What we do with money box is save pennies which turn into pounds. Saving 25 quid a month as suggested in this thread is beyond the scope of Moneybox. I would miss that 25 quid a month but I don't miss the 45p I saved after my shop at Tesco on Friday. I don't miss the 41p I saved after I bought petrol on Thursday. etc. etc. Moneybox is actually very simple to understand: It's a money box.

    But hey I know I'm wasting my time trying to teach someone who already knows everything!

    Bye bye, over and out.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 19-03-2017 at 11:11 PM.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 19th Mar 17, 11:11 PM
    • 9,159 Posts
    • 5,854 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Perhaps I worded my post wrongly: I actually posted what in my own personal experience of the cheapest I can think of which is HL because I use them. Then I quoted what I personalyt regard as middle of the road S&S ISA in terms of charges which is Halifax. To my mind that post of mine was therefore a fair comparison. Pretty obvious though if you actually read my post.

    But I wrote a quick forum post and not a scientific paper ROFL

    But your post is mainly pedantry: Where are your examples and links?
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    You're research is pretty poor if you think hl are cheap, they are often cited as the expensive end of the diy market, certainly on larger sums.

    Halifax is a flat fee broker so significantly cheaper for larger portfolios, particularly if you don't trade much.

    You have to come up with a fairly unique and frankly unwise set of criteria to demonstrate that micro investing under a set of circumstances is wise.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 19th Mar 17, 11:31 PM
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    Anthorn
    You're research is pretty poor if you think hl are cheap, they are often cited as the expensive end of the diy market, certainly on larger sums.

    Halifax is a flat fee broker so significantly cheaper for larger portfolios, particularly if you don't trade much.

    You have to come up with a fairly unique and frankly unwise set of criteria to demonstrate that micro investing under a set of circumstances is wise.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    Well hello there bigadaj: I expected you in this thread long before now.

    Where did I say Micro Investing is wise and why would I want to do that? I'm commenting on Moneybox which is actually an alternative for those who don't have an alternative. Read my previous post.

    The rest of your post really is only fit to be ignored since it only repeats what has been previously posted and replied to.
    Last edited by Anthorn; 19-03-2017 at 11:34 PM.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 19th Mar 17, 11:58 PM
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    • 5,854 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Well hello there bigadaj: I expected you in this thread long before now.

    Where did I say Micro Investing is wise and why would I want to do that? I'm commenting on Moneybox which is actually an alternative for those who don't have an alternative. Read my previous post.

    The rest of your post really is only fit to be ignored since it only repeats what has been previously posted and replied to.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    You really should stop posting the utter nonsense you do.

    Money box is a gimmick and you seem to love those, just stop recommending them to newbies who know no better.

    The best analogy is probably with transport. There's a long running thread on bangernomcis on the motoring board, and it's personal choice what car you run.

    However if you are very strapped then public transport is the only option, you can't afford to run a car.

    Similarly the only use for his product is for people who simply don't have enough for investment, they should be saving through high interest current accounts and regular savers until they have a reasonable sum to invest, if you only have pennies and teh charges are in pounds then you'll never get rich.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 12:23 AM
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    Anthorn
    You really should stop posting the utter nonsense you do.

    Money box is a gimmick and you seem to love those, just stop recommending them to newbies who know no better.

    The best analogy is probably with transport. There's a long running thread on bangernomcis on the motoring board, and it's personal choice what car you run.

    However if you are very strapped then public transport is the only option, you can't afford to run a car.

    Similarly the only use for his product is for people who simply don't have enough for investment, they should be saving through high interest current accounts and regular savers until they have a reasonable sum to invest, if you only have pennies and teh charges are in pounds then you'll never get rich.
    Originally posted by bigadaj
    If Moneybox is a gimmick then so is the very popular Acorns in the U.S. which is almost identical. Now if you were to instead focus on its selling points I might be tempted to agree with you.

    You appear to not understand what being cash-poor is. Tip: It has nothing to do with not having any money.

    I look at my contract notes in my Moneybox iOS app and I see Vanguard Global Equity Fund, Vanguard Global Property Shares Fund, Blackrock Global Property Shares Fund and Henderson Cash Fund, my current saved pennies totals £5.54p and being an adventurous fox my projected gain over 12 months is 5.8%. Nuff said!
    https://www.moneyboxapp.com/
    https://www.acorns.com/

    Tip: Next have a go at pulling to pieces the funds I'm investing in.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th Mar 17, 12:39 AM
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    bowlhead99
    But I wrote a quick forum post and not a scientific paper ROFL

    But your post is mainly pedantry: Where are your examples and links?
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    You were quoted examples on the other Moneybox thread. You didn't seem to get it. It's a chore spending time and effort writing things that someone doesn't want to hear.
    Good grief, the dogs really have been called out. But perhaps we need some new dogs because it's the same ones every time.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Yes, it seems that unsurprisingly the forum views on Moneybox have not really changed since the last moneybox thread. It's just you saying how they are good for your needs because you invest £30, £50, £80 a month or whatever with them at higher cost than mainstream providers would charge for that amount of money, and a number of other people mentioning that it is a waste of money.

    Effectively you are paying extra fees for the 'entertainment' of having a firm electronically access your bank statements and pull a specific number of pounds and pence from your account based on activity, instead of just having a standing order or once-a-month direct debit for a fixed affordable amount with the occasional manual topup.

    Yet again pedantry: If you don't agree with my post then you must have one or alternatives but you don't quote them. If you don't have alternatives then you cannot possibly disagree!
    There is no point parading the alternatives in front of you again when you dismissed them out of hand last time because of not liking to be proven wrong.


    One
    I'm moving on now so don't expect me to reply to further posts.
    Two,
    My last in this thread anyway so don't bother.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Three?
    But hey I know I'm wasting my time trying to teach someone who already knows everything!

    Bye bye, over and out.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Ah not quite:
    Well hello there bigadaj: I expected you in this thread long before now.

    Where did I say Micro Investing is wise and why would I want to do that? I'm commenting on Moneybox
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    The thread is called Micro Investing. The opening post was from someone considering micro investing their 20p a time or whatever through Money Box. You have said you participate in Micro Investing using the stocks and shares variant of Money Box, investing for example 41p when you bought petrol on Thursday. Or smaller amounts at other times.

    You went on to say that "personally, you squirrel away at least £80 per month almost entirely from rounding up purchases to the next full pound". So you are investing in chunks of 1p to 99p.

    And now you are asking where it was that you said that Micro Investing is wise and why you would want to do it? Well, if you have at least £80 a month to invest it is not really very wise, because there are cheaper solutions, but you are doing it, and have said you like doing it, and you recommend it. Are you now saying it is not wise after all? Or are you confused about what the thread is about?

    The rest of your post really is only fit to be ignored since it only repeats what has been previously posted and replied to.
    I don't think you have come up with any original content since your previous posts on the other money box thread. You are just repeating your reasons for doing what you do and trying to deflect the ideas that this Moneybox platform is an unnecessarily expensive way for someone like you to do what you do.

    Whereas if someone else repeats something they said on another thread or earlier in this one you will say they are repeating themselves but then also complain because they are not posting examples and links to the variety of other platforms which have been highlighted to you as being cheaper options before, even though you would dismiss them as repetitious.

    Meanwhile you are coming up with ever more flowery insults to characterise a variety of sensible comments as 'pedantry', 'mindless verbal diarrhea' etc. So I expect there are some people who would take a look at the comment: "The rest of your post really is only fit to be ignored since it only repeats what has been previously posted and replied to" and think it could easily have been directed *at* you rather than written *by* you.

    Tip: Next have a go at pulling to pieces the funds I'm investing in.
    Why bother wasting time on you? You only want an argument, even though you have said several times you are not going to speak further on the subject. At £80 a month it doesn't really matter what you invest in as long as it is reasonably well diversified and as cheap as possible for the asset types you want.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 20-03-2017 at 1:11 AM.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 20th Mar 17, 4:34 AM
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    Anthorn
    (Big cut of trivial verbal diarrhea)
    You only want an argument. (And another cut of trivial verbal diarrhea)
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    ROFL Not true. I'm actually discussing the subject which is set in the OP. But there is really not much point is discussing and debating a subject with pedants who are dissecting and discussing my posts and not the subject. Honestly the amount of pedantry in this thread is astounding not to mention ridiculous.

    Here's that link to Wikipedia again in case you missed it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedant

    And here's a few reviews of Moneybox:

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/diyinvesting/article-3777763/Moneybox-app-encourages-investing-rounding-everyday-spending.html

    https://www.ft.com/content/14dc379a-6ac7-11e6-a0b1-d87a9fea034f

    http://www.techworld.com/apps/moneybox-app-that-hopes-make-it-radically-easier-save-invest-3647796/

    Lastly, the subject is:
    Do any of you use M0ney B0x or similar to micro invest? You link the app to your debit card and then every time you spend money it gets rounded up and invested. E.g. a £1.80 coffee will get rounded up to £2 and the 20p will be set aside to be invested.

    I'm only just looking into it and I think it's fairly new so wondered if anyone had any experience of investing this way? It sounds like a fun and easy way to save without needing huge sums to get started but I'm wondering if the small amounts will make it worth it?
    Originally posted by BettyBoof
    If you don't have any experience of using it why are you replying?

    What those pedantic posts do in fact quite graphically illustrate though is that those posters are attempting to criticise something they have never used and that in turn quite graphically illustrates the idiotic nature of those posts. What is also quite graphically illustrated is that in a simplistic way a few people think that in discrediting me they discredit Moneybox. In short, get some experience of it before you criticise it.

    Overall, I use it, I find it useful and I've explained why I find it useful and that's on-topic. I'm not going to stop using it just because its very simple concept is beyond the understanding of a few people.

    Oh yes, I've allowed myself to be side-tracked by pedants but only because I find pedants and pedantry entertaining and funny because in a very simplistic way they think they are being clever. But now I've become bored with it.

    The topic is not:
    Read Anthorn's posts, dissect them and discuss the dissected bits, the more trivial the better.

    And here's another very well deserved ROFL: ROFL
    Last edited by Anthorn; 20-03-2017 at 7:01 AM. Reason: Last sentence added
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 20th Mar 17, 7:58 AM
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    bowlhead99
    Thanks for the links. To save the OP some time in clicking through - the first two are not reviews of the product.

    The thisismoney / daily mail one is talking about a new service just launched (without any hands on experience of it, so only written from the press release, so won't tell you anything the company doesn't tell you itself about what it aims to do)

    The FT one is from a few weeks earlier so is simply talking about the new service that's due to be released (so again no hands-on experience and everything about what the product is designed to do will have come from the press releases or the accompanying quotes from the two founders). In the interests of balance, it does have some third-party observations from a consumer group, who say:
    “I think any innovation that encourages people to adopt the savings habit is welcome. However, I can’t help thinking that the fees will take too big a chunk out of the returns for those who only use the ‘rounding up’ of purchases option,” said Andrew Hagger, founder of consumer consultancy MoneyComms.

    “Obviously if you save more, the charges are less onerous and it’s probably a decent entry level option for those wanting to start investing in equities. But if I only had a small sum to put aside each month, I’d probably stick with cash. A regular savings account, available with some bank current accounts, can pay up to 6 per cent interest.
    I'd agree with that quote.

    It is fine for a little nibble which won't accumulate anything substantial, and is relatively harmless if it gets people interested in investing - as "Plus" said further up this thread - although using it for minimal amount such as one or two tenners a month will find the performance crippled by the £1pm charge. While larger amounts would not be crippled but they would clearly be better by going through a cheaper provider.

    The comment in the FT article referred to 6% interest on bank current accounts, but that's now a little out of date and at the moment the going rate for instant access regular savings at somewhere like Nationwide up to £500pm is 5% (also available on their current account).

    The third of the 'reviews' links is a technology site rather than a financial products site so it doesn't compare the offering to any other financial products in terms of its usefulness as an investting tool or value for money. It does however say that the person put away £70 over eight weeks which was in line with the average projection from the company of £36pm, and that the app was intuitive and transparent. So it seems to do what it says on the tin, though time will tell whether the company has the financial strength to break even and eventually start making profits and still be in business in five to ten years.

    Once you are putting in £30+ a month with it being taken in 4 or 5 weekly direct debits over the month, you might as well set up one direct debit for £30 to a provider who doesn't want a pound a month of fixed fees and will offer a lower platform charge and a greater range of investment options. Additional spare money from time to time could be put in as and when. Unfortunately HMRC only allows you to contribute to one S&S ISA in a tax year - so by doing (say) £400 a year into Moneybox via your weekly activity, the remaining £19,600 of annual S&S ISA allowance can only be used for Moneybox, and the rest of your investing would have to forego the tax wrapper.

    Overall, I use it, I find it useful and I've explained why I find it useful and that's on-topic. I'm not going to stop using it just because its very simple concept is beyond the understanding of a few people.
    It's a free country and if you like it there is no need to stop. You mentioned that you do at least £80 a month now. Presumably fed by four or five weekly direct debits of haphazard amounts determined by Moneybox looking at your bank statement. The smarter thing to do if you can afford that level of investment is simply to set up a direct debit for that £80 each month (or some lower amount if you'd prefer to be more cautious) with a mainstream provider with lower fees.

    Of course you don't need to take the advice, you are your own free man. But just recognise that the reason you're getting the advice is not because the "very simple concept is beyond the understanding of a few people". We understand the concept quite well. We are just on a money-saving expert site, so the standard response to a new product is "what does it do that can't already be done more efficiently by cheaper products".

    It's true that the cheaper products do not hit you with the direct debit five times a month for haphazard amounts with the option for a top up; merely a fixed amount with the option for a top up. And the cheaper products will not halve your monthly investment when you change your morning coffee from a £2.10 Americano to a £2.60 cappuccino and the 'change' being invested drops from 90p per working day to 40p per working day. The cheaper traditional products just plug away with the standard direct debits and don't reduce them when your shopping reduces to 80 transactions a month or increase them when your shopping increases to 160 transactions a month. Other than 'gimmick' there is no real reason why those pretty-uncontrollable variations should be a feature of an investing plan.

    The OP or others might find it useful to look at the earlier Moneybox forum thread from shortly after the app's launch, which was referenced earlier. It outlines the views of a few forum regulars (including myself and Anthorn).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5522077

    The banter is a little milder in that one, Anthorn only makes two accusations that others are spouting 'verbal diarrhea' compared to the three on this thread, and no wikipedia links.

    The broad consensus from people who weren't Anthorn on that thread could be summed up by a post from Malthusian, in response to a comment from Anthorn to the effect that all he saw on the thread was verbal diarrhea and nothing constructive:

    The OP wanted views on MoneyBox from people with experience in investing. The majority view from experienced investors is "use a lower cost and more flexible alternative" and "forget about rounding up and save an amount that actually matters". If the OP takes these views on board they'll lose less money to charges, their investments will have higher growth potential and they may find that they are better off in the future because they decided to save a meaningful amount for the long term, instead of signing up to have a few pennies taken out of their bank account and thinking "job done". That sounds pretty constructive to me.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 20-03-2017 at 8:01 AM. Reason: fixed link
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