Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • rob84
    • By rob84 6th Feb 17, 3:33 AM
    • 34Posts
    • 26Thanks
    rob84
    ECP POPLA appeal
    • #1
    • 6th Feb 17, 3:33 AM
    ECP POPLA appeal 6th Feb 17 at 3:33 AM
    Hi,

    I received a Euro Car Park PCN which i appealed using the standard template and was rejected, which is what i expected, so now have to go through the POPLA process. I have received the letter with a POPLA code dated from 2/2/17, is it best to appeal right away or allow it to linger for the full 28 days?

    I parked in the Church Farm car park in Stockton Heath and went well over the time limit due to some extremely poor advice from friends. It is a free car park that has a 90 minute limit and i overstayed by 89 minutes.

    I was going to appeal with:

    1. No Evidence of Landowner Authority - Copy and paste from Newbie thread
    2. Lack of clear signage - Copy and paste from Newbie thread
    3. BPA Code of Practice - further non-compliance - photo evidence. - Copied and paste from other successful POPLA appeals
    4. The ANPR system is neither reliable nor accurate. - Copied from other POPLA appeals but edited to highlight the double dip point and some extra paragraphs stating POFA.

    Could i paste the appeal here so someone could have a look over it?

    Thanks
    Last edited by rob84; 06-02-2017 at 3:35 AM.
Page 3
    • rob84
    • By rob84 8th Mar 17, 11:45 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    Ignore my previous comment about them cancelling about the length, I'm getting two different threads mixed up. The non contested one didn't mention the ANPR system monitoring for traffic. It was another thread and there was no update on it.
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 9th Mar 17, 11:39 AM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    Hi Rob84 - please see my updated thread with the appeal that I lost. Interesting, Coupon-mad has commented and said theyve just used a template to answer !
    • rob84
    • By rob84 9th Mar 17, 1:15 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    I have had a read of it. Bit of shocker if it's just a template, makes it feel a bit random and all on how they feel on the day.
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 9th Mar 17, 1:40 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    Well I chopped it up, it wasnt even in paragraphs when they sent it to me on the portal !!
    • rob84
    • By rob84 9th Mar 17, 1:43 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    Jesus that's a bit amateurish
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 9th Mar 17, 2:02 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    Honestly - You have never seen anything like it !!! It was like a full A4 page of just blurb with no paragraphs !!!!
    • rob84
    • By rob84 9th Mar 17, 8:12 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    Mine is still at stage 2 pending comments.

    I look forward to the wall of text
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 9th Mar 17, 10:15 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    Oh you'll love the wall of text !!! Now won't it be interesting if yours is upheld ??? Essentially a carbon copy rebuttal!!!!
    • rob84
    • By rob84 9th Mar 17, 11:18 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    That'll confirm that its just a farce. Someone on here had theirs accepted and one of the things that it was accepted on is that only one of the photographs had a time stamp on it, one dated 12th Jan 2017 surprisingly.
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 10th Mar 17, 12:15 AM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    That'll confirm that its just a farce. Someone on here had theirs accepted and one of the things that it was accepted on is that only one of the photographs had a time stamp on it, one dated 12th Jan 2017 surprisingly.
    Originally posted by rob84
    I wonder if that is the case whether there is anything we can do further ? If yours is upheld then I am very tempted to get back in touch with POPLA about it as that's not on for virtually the same appeal and rebuttal!!!!
    • rob84
    • By rob84 10th Mar 17, 2:39 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    @the_wheels_have_fallen_of I would get that complaint letter ready if I was you.

    Decision
    Successful
    Assessor Name
    Amy Butler
    Assessor summary of operator case
    The operator’s case is that the appellant exceeded the maximum stay allowed.

    Assessor summary of your case
    The appellant has raised several grounds of appeal. These are as follows: • No evidence of Landowner Authority • The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself. • The signs fail to transparently warn drivers of what the ANPR data will be used for. • No keeper or driver liability.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage at the site which terms and conditions state “1 ½ hours max stay; this car park is controlled, failure to comply with the following will result in the issue of a £90 parking charge notice; (£50 if paid within 14 days)”. The operator has provided images from the Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system, which shows the appellant’s vehicle XXXX XXX entered the site on 3 December 2016, at 18:46 and exited the site at 21:45. The appellant remained at the site for a period of two hours and 59 minutes. The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) because the appellant exceeded the maximum stay allowed. The appellant has raised several grounds of appeal. These are as follows: • No evidence of Landowner Authority • The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself. • The signs fail to transparently warn drivers of what the ANPR data will be used for. • No keeper or driver liability. Within Section 7 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, it requires parking operators to have the written authority from the landowner to operate on the land. As such, I must consider whether the Operator has met the requirements of this section of the BPA Code of Practice. In this case the operator has provided a copy of the signed agreement between the landowner and the operator. However the agreement does not state an effective from date or the term of the agreement. I am not satisfied that the agreement within the operator’s evidence confirms that is has written authority to operate on the land. The operator has failed to demonstrate that it meets the requirements set out in Section 7 of the BPA Code of Practice. I note that the appellant has raised further grounds of appeal, however as I have allowed the appeal I do not need to look at these. I can only conclude that the PCN has been issued incorrectly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.

    I would like to thank everyone for their help on this though, it has been appreciated. Unsure how mine has been upheld yet another identical case is been rejected?
    Last edited by rob84; 11-03-2017 at 12:29 AM.
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 10th Mar 17, 2:46 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    Unbelievable!!!!! Thrilled for you though rob84 !!!

    @Coupon-mad - do I complain to POPLA ???? Ref my thread you commented on last night ??
    • rob84
    • By rob84 10th Mar 17, 3:05 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    If you complain you'll probably need my POPLA number which is 2410337543.

    And the IAS is meant to be worse
    • the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    • By the_wheels_have_fallen_of 10th Mar 17, 4:40 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    the_wheels_have_fallen_of
    If you complain you'll probably need my POPLA number which is 2410337543.

    And the IAS is meant to be worse
    Originally posted by rob84
    I'm furious Rob84. Not for you but about the whole corrupt nonsense of PPC's !!!
    • rob84
    • By rob84 10th Mar 17, 8:00 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    rob84
    I dont blame you. I was surprised yours failed given that there are others on the same car park have won on lack of landowner authority and then mine passes on it. A little bit of consistency is missing here.

    As stated though, ECP are toothless so at worst its been a wast of a couple of hours for you and they are down in cash since theyve had to pay to get your details and pay for POPLA.
    Last edited by rob84; 10-03-2017 at 8:04 PM.
    • maxnutter
    • By maxnutter 11th Aug 17, 11:21 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    maxnutter
    Just wanted to thank everyone involved in this thread. I got a PCN from the same car park in May and have successfully appealed by cribbing this thread:
    Assessor supporting rational for decision

    After reviewing the evidence provided by both parties, I am not satisfied that
    the appellant has been identified as the driver of the vehicle in question, at
    the time of the alleged parking contravention. The operator is therefore
    pursuing the appellant as the registered keeper of the vehicle. For the
    operator to transfer liability for unpaid parking charges from the driver of the
    vehicle, to the registered keeper, the regulations laid out in the Protection of
    Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 must be adhered to. PoFA 2012 states: “warn the
    keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on
    which the notice is given – (i) The amount of the unpaid parking charges
    specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full; and (ii) The creditor
    does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service
    for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this
    Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that
    amount as remains unpaid;” Therefore, transfer of liability occurs ‘28 days
    beginning with the day after the date the notice is given’. However the PCN
    that has been received states “...29 days from the date given (which is
    presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued) ...”. This is
    incorrect because the field titled “Date Issued” is actually the date the PCN
    was issued not the date the notice to keeper was sent out. As such I can
    confirm that the Parking Charge Notice issued is compliant with PoFA 2012
    and I must allow the appeal. I note the appellant has raised further grounds
    of appeal; however I do not need to look at these as I have allowed the
    appeal on PoFA 2012.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Aug 17, 2:03 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
    • 65,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done - albeit ECP have closed that error now, with the wrong 'date issued'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • maxnutter
    • By maxnutter 11th Aug 17, 3:01 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    maxnutter
    I must have got lucky!

    When did they close it?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Aug 17, 3:04 PM
    • 51,886 Posts
    • 65,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    June (ish)?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • maxnutter
    • By maxnutter 11th Aug 17, 3:06 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    maxnutter
    I did get lucky then mine was from the end of May.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

2,234Posts Today

7,418Users online

Martin's Twitter