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  • FIRST POST
    • thismakemesad
    • By thismakemesad 25th Jan 17, 12:49 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 3Thanks
    thismakemesad
    FINAL REMINDER - SIP LIMITED - Manchester
    • #1
    • 25th Jan 17, 12:49 PM
    FINAL REMINDER - SIP LIMITED - Manchester 25th Jan 17 at 12:49 PM
    Good afternoon all,

    A parking ticket was received last year (14/10/16) on Cable Street Manchester - In this circumstance the driver was in Manchester and paid for 3 hours parking. the driver was late back due to a hold up at work, But they made it back within the hour. There is now a final reminder on the ticket.
    The bill now stands at £125 but because it has been left so long I don't think they will listen to anything as it is so far past the ticket. Any advice??

    Does anybody know the landowner so I could email and explain the situation? I've heard that gets better results?
    Last edited by thismakemesad; 18-04-2017 at 3:35 PM. Reason: New information
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Feb 17, 11:58 AM
    • 45,035 Posts
    • 57,670 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Pretty much it's turn up and defend and we find almost everyone wins, with a forum defence & advice to back them.

    You can't negotiate except sometimes with a landowner - not with SIP or Gladstones, they would spot the desperation and hold out for silly money (more than a Judge would likely award even if you lost).
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 1st Feb 17, 12:08 PM
    • 13,644 Posts
    • 16,748 Thanks
    Redx
    I doubt that you would be paying the multi-millionaire that owns these car parks

    you would be paying the par@sites employed by the owner or the M.A. to "manage" the onsite parking , so if that is SIP then its paying SIP, the contractor

    after all , if you pay EASYJET for a ticket to Barcelona you are not paying them for the jet fuel, they are paying B.P. or TEXACO or SHELL or whoever they contract for the fuel itself to be put in the aircraft

    very few car par owners actually manage their own parking arrangements , its all sub-contracted out

    generally speaking , they want their pound of flesh and will rarely settle for less than the demands they send out and Gladstones get paid regardless as they are advising the client and issuing roboclaims on a massive scale

    bargepole explains it more in this recent thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5533125&page=13
    Last edited by Redx; 01-02-2017 at 12:12 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • thismakemesad
    • By thismakemesad 18th Apr 17, 3:30 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    thismakemesad
    Gladstones Letter Received
    So after some considerable time debating what to do, I've waited for the letter as previously stated, and there is a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones.

    They have written what I imagine is the usual, about their client writing to request a payment and the amounts are still outstanding. The remainder of the letter goes as follows:

    'The debts relate to parking charges (detailed above) for which you are liable. Full details of the charges have previously been provided to you within the Parking Charge Notices and/or Notices to Driver/Keeper that have been served upon you. The Claimant will rely on these documents in the forthcoming action against you.

    We refer you to the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules and in particular paragraph 13-16 of the same which concerns the Court's powers to impose sanctions for any failure to comply.

    We now require you to pay the full amount within 14 days. Alternatively, you should provide an acknowledgement of receipt of this letter and a full written response within 14 days. Your response should provide your full account of the circumstances that have led to the charges being imposed and should include confirmation as to who the driver(s) of the vehicle were at the time of each incident and a current address for service for each driver. Unless a satisfactory response is provided, we are instructed to start proceedings against you without any further notice in order to recover amounts due and costs associated with the recovery of them. The amount that is claimed may therefore increase in terms of costs and any interest that is recoverable.'


    To reiterate, the driver received the ticket after paying for 3 hours, and failed to return for 40 minutes due to a work commitment that prevented.
    Admittedly the driver should not have left the ticket without contact but it's not time to make a move on responding I feel.
    Do you have any recommendations on how to proceed?
    Not sure if this needs a new thread to refresh it so people can see?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Apr 17, 3:43 PM
    • 12,139 Posts
    • 18,529 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Not sure if this needs a new thread to refresh it so people can see?
    It does not need a new thread, otherwise all context/background is lost and no regular is going to be flicking back and to between different threads to make sense of everything. We are dealing with 50+ different cases each day and it's impossible to remember in detail what individual cases are about, without back-referencing earlier posts. Any time a new post appears on this thread, the thread is automatically bumped to the top of the forum thread list.

    A formal LBC needs to be responded to, you need to deny any debt exists and any court claim made by the PPC will be vigorously and robustly defended. What you don't need to do is any of this:

    Your response should provide your full account of the circumstances that have led to the charges being imposed and should include confirmation as to who the driver(s) of the vehicle were at the time of each incident and a current address for service for each driver.
    Post #6 of this thread shows a response to a Gladstones LBC for you to use as a framework against which to pen your own.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72403840&highlight=gladstones+lbc +response#post72403840

    Unless a satisfactory response is provided, we are instructed to start proceedings against you without any further notice
    A 'satisfactory response' can only be written on a cheque! SIP have become litigious more recently, so work on the basis that court papers will follow, but they can be defended, there's help here from court-savvy regulars and the forum has seen off 99% of Gladstones claims.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 18-04-2017 at 3:47 PM.
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • thismakemesad
    • By thismakemesad 19th Apr 17, 11:48 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    thismakemesad
    Thank You Umkomaas
    Thank you very much! I'll get cracking on the letter tomorrow, should I post it here? Or simply adapt the one there?
    Is it a problem if they recognise it as a letter they have had before with different details?

    All the best
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 20th Apr 17, 12:10 AM
    • 12,139 Posts
    • 18,529 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    should I post it here? Or simply adapt the one there?
    You can post it here for comment, but don't be dependent on a response. The forum is manic at times and threads can easily disappear down the forum list very quickly as new ones (or answered ones) emerge.

    For example, today the small handful of regulars have dealt with 75 different threads, some of which have more than 5-10 inputs, some with complex responses. Do the math! Additionally some of the regulars are also active, in parallel, on PePiPoo.

    It can get overwhelming. Just look at how late (silly o'clock) stalwart Coupon-mad is working on stuff - every night, 7 days a week.

    Jeez is that the time - and I can often be up to 2 hours ahead of everyone!
    NEWBIES - wise up - DO NOT IGNORE A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE - you have been warned!

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Please note: I am NOT involved in any 'paid for' appeals service.
    • thismakemesad
    • By thismakemesad 21st Apr 17, 4:09 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    thismakemesad
    Hi all,

    Response below as suggested. I'll get it in the post ASAP if approved and appropriate.
    I assume at this point, specifics on my situation will not be needed? Just requesting the correct and full information?

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN XXXXXXXX – Letter Before County Court Claim

    I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your Letter Before Claim dated 12th April 2017.

    Firstly, I deny any debt to Sip Parking Limited and any court proceedings will be vigorously and robustly defended.

    Secondly, in reading your letter I do not believe (in reading through the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct) that it is fully compliant with the Practice Direction: it is in fact woefully defective and possibly a deliberate attempt to mislead the recipient.

    Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of the Practice Direction: areas which you are not compliant are listed below (reference Practise Direction, Annex A Para 2):

    2.1 The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter, allowing the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include:
    (1) the claimant’s full name and address;
    (2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable): Contract Claim, Trespass Claim or other;
    (3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based: why exactly has the defendant been charged;
    (4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;
    (5) any financial loss claimed with an explanation of how the amount has been calculated (including any increases from the original amount claimed); and
    (6) all photographic and physical evidence taken, provided to IAS. Has any of this information been withheld from the defendant as appellant, if so, the defendant wishes to see the entire ‘case’ as IAS saw.

    2.2 The letter should also:
    (1) list fully the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely. You cannot presume that all the documents you will rely on are in my possession. I do acknowledge that once I have submitted my defence then further documents in rebuttal maybe submitted by the claimant;
    (2) set out the form of any further ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;

    Please confirm that your client's contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced for the court. I also require an explanation/justification for any additional charges added to the original including confirmation that these have already been invoiced and paid to any third parties involved.

    When I receive the documents and your explanations, I will be in a better position to make a more detailed response. It would be unreasonable to proceed with litigation before you have clarified your client's cause of action.

    I look forward to your response

    Yours faithfully
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Apr 17, 12:22 AM
    • 45,035 Posts
    • 57,670 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    (reference Practise Direction, Annex A Para 2)
    It's practice not practise.

    But that's a really old letter, there is no Annex A. I have no idea why people keep using this old letter, time an again, instead of one of the better, more recent ones. This is covered on lots of other Gladstones threads, try searching 'Annex Gladstones LBCCC' or similar.

    You will learn far more from other threads after searching, than on this thread alone. Expect a claim anyway but I would send a more relevant letter, read other threads just like yours, more recent ones than wherever that came from.
    PRIVATE PCN in England/Wales? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    Click on the trail, top of this page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    DON'T read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

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